"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue May 28, 2019 5:21 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:16 pm
How do we know if Toyotaro is not doing homages when he traces since his stuff is taken from other Dragon Ball stuff.
It would've been acceptable during the first early stages of the manga. However him consistently feeling the need to do this just reflects on his lack of creativity/originality. It was appropriate(?) when he was still a dojin fan artist, but now he's working with official material. He needs to grow.
Last edited by mfwlegend3 on Tue May 28, 2019 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Tue May 28, 2019 5:22 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:54 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:43 pm
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:53 pm


Please. Dragon Ball Sai tops anything Toyotaro has dished out. Particularly the fight between Kakarrot and Vegeta.
I disagree with that. Toyotarou's battles are some of the best out all of DB has to offer. Particularly the fight between SSJ2 Goku vs. SSJ2 FTrunks, CSSB Goku & Merged Zamasu, the GoD exhibition match, Goku vs Toppo, and UI Goku vs Jiren. But I expect we won't be seeing eye-to-eye on this.
Out of all those fights you listed, only Goku vs Merged Zamas was pretty good (for Toyotaro standards). Toyotaro's fights are rather repetitious and bland for the most part. Lee provides beautifully choreographed fights with accompanying clean art.
THANK YOU!!! Yeah Goku Vs. Merged Zamasu and maybe MUI Goku Vs. Full Power Jiren (For Toyo Standards) were pretty good but even then those feature copied moments from previous moments in the franchise and its not good for Super because as the years will go by fans will continue to notice these types of things and It'll hurt the Manga's rep (Super not DB)

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Tai Lung » Tue May 28, 2019 6:23 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:53 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 11:57 am
Lee isn't better than Toyotarou.
Please. Dragon Ball Sai tops anything Toyotaro has dished out. Particularly the fight between Kakarrot and Vegeta.
if we talk only about drawing and choreography ... yeah

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Tue May 28, 2019 7:23 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:05 pm
This is what i'm talking about he's okay @ Drawing (Garow Lee is still superior) at least when it takes him months to release a chapter the time and efforts put into making it actually pay off and when you actually look at some of these "References" you realize how souless the manga actually is compared to it's original Predecessor it's a bit cringe considering Super would be a lot more respected if it had original panels and references of it's own rather than ripping his Sensei''s hardwork and the non-canon and filler stuff of Z (the anime)
Nope. Your image is not only a blatant clusterfuck that looks like it's been taken from 4chan, you are also horribly misrepresenting it. Not only are some of them not from DBS, which is what we are talking about here, a lot of these poses are referenced, which I stress is on par for a manga that is supposed to act as a sequel for the original manga. I also see one from Battle of the Gods, and you are blaming him for not representing Battle of the Gods the way it canonically went in the film.

You are obviously biased if you think that the manga only does this and not the Super anime/film. Please don't tell me you actually think that the Broly film is all original and there's not a single shred of referenced material from previous DB works either?

You still haven't proven to me where he "constantly" copies the original manga, where a chapter is on average 40-45 pages with multiple panels. You still haven't proven to me that he constantly does this for at least five consecutive chapters with more than one reference per chapter. Don't just screenshot somebody else's work at compiling, show to me that you're not just a sheep and give me what I'm asking for, if it exists.
Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:07 pm
Dude face it Toyotaro isn't that good and if Dragon Garow Lee had been discovered before he would have been chosen as Toriyama's successor The dude can literally combine different Mangaka's Styles in one picture without it looking weird

If Jump Force were to receive a manga adaption they'd get DragonGarowLee
K. Get back to me when any of that ever happens.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mfwlegend3 » Tue May 28, 2019 7:37 pm

When you feel the need to engage in whataboutism, your whole argument falls apart.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed May 29, 2019 1:01 am

Rakurai wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 7:23 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:05 pm
This is what i'm talking about he's okay @ Drawing (Garow Lee is still superior) at least when it takes him months to release a chapter the time and efforts put into making it actually pay off and when you actually look at some of these "References" you realize how souless the manga actually is compared to it's original Predecessor it's a bit cringe considering Super would be a lot more respected if it had original panels and references of it's own rather than ripping his Sensei''s hardwork and the non-canon and filler stuff of Z (the anime)
Nope. Your image is not only a blatant clusterfuck that looks like it's been taken from 4chan, you are also horribly misrepresenting it. Not only are some of them not from DBS, which is what we are talking about here, a lot of these poses are referenced, which I stress is on par for a manga that is supposed to act as a sequel for the original manga. I also see one from Battle of the Gods, and you are blaming him for not representing Battle of the Gods the way it canonically went in the film.

You are obviously biased if you think that the manga only does this and not the Super anime/film. Please don't tell me you actually think that the Broly film is all original and there's not a single shred of referenced material from previous DB works either?

You still haven't proven to me where he "constantly" copies the original manga, where a chapter is on average 40-45 pages with multiple panels. You still haven't proven to me that he constantly does this for at least five consecutive chapters with more than one reference per chapter. Don't just screenshot somebody else's work at compiling, show to me that you're not just a sheep and give me what I'm asking for, if it exists.
Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:07 pm
Dude face it Toyotaro isn't that good and if Dragon Garow Lee had been discovered before he would have been chosen as Toriyama's successor The dude can literally combine different Mangaka's Styles in one picture without it looking weird

If Jump Force were to receive a manga adaption they'd get DragonGarowLee
K. Get back to me when any of that ever happens.
I did prove to you that he consistently does it's called zooming in and if you don't want to accept it that's fine don't forget he traced that Captain America pose
also...when it comes to the Broly movie at least when it does make homages it adds a new spin to what it's referencing rather than blatantly copy it and just add a different character to its pose

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Wed May 29, 2019 11:57 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:58 am
you've never heard of a guy called Dragon garow lee huh
I did, he is pretty good at catching up the older art styles of Dragon Ball... and that is what I have noticed. But he isn't doing Dragon Ball Super manga, is he, Toyotaro is.
He was chosen, is in the process, so we have what he have. Also, Dragon garow lee is dojinshi artist and Yamcha was something more as a fan project than DB Super. I think, that we can better compare Toyotaro to the likes of Naho Oisho, who does DBSD.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed May 29, 2019 3:24 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:57 am
Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 10:58 am
you've never heard of a guy called Dragon garow lee huh
I did, he is pretty good at catching up the older art styles of Dragon Ball... and that is what I have noticed. But he isn't doing Dragon Ball Super manga, is he, Toyotaro is.
He was chosen, is in the process, so we have what he have. Also, Dragon garow lee is dojinshi artist and Yamcha was something more as a fan project than DB Super. I think, that we can better compare Toyotaro to the likes of Naho Oisho, who does DBSD.
His yamcha manga is official so it's fair to compare toyo to Garow Lee

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Shaddy » Wed May 29, 2019 4:42 pm

Ooishi, Lee, and Toyo were all doujin artists who eventually produced official content. I would still consider Toyo the weakest in terms of art, he doesn't really seem to have changed much at all from his DBAF days.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 pm

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:01 am
I did prove to you that he consistently does it's called zooming in and if you don't want to accept it that's fine don't forget he traced that Captain America pose
also...when it comes to the Broly movie at least when it does make homages it adds a new spin to what it's referencing rather than blatantly copy it and just add a different character to its pose
You didn't prove shit, you just posted a collage that doesn't even belong to you that's clusterfucked with references and some irrelevant, misleading, and overreaching pictures. Like showing a side-by-side comparison of 17 touching his chest that's supposed to indicate a transition to a flashback in the same page! Like "copying" scenes from Battle of the Gods when there is already source material out for it! Smfh. A few of those are from his DB AF days too! Don't be a sheep, give me what I asked for and don't use somebody else's poor shoddy attempts at discrediting a mangaka.

But hey, you know what? Even the best, most popular mangaka are no different. From One Piece:
These are all very close to each other in period of release, and let me tell you that's not even the tip of the iceberg for a long-running series like One Piece.

Your argument is very much based on subjective, soft points like "adds a new spin," "soulless," "looking weird," etc. Very much based on preference, hardly anything of substance.

You choose to overlook the fact that being a sequel of the manga, he is perfectly allowed to reference a few poses here and there. He's not overwhelming any single chapter with them which is why it's not a problem. He's not even batting an average of 1-2 references per chapter from the DB manga. He is perfectly allowed to recycle his own poses as many times as he wants.

You claim stuff like "copying" from Z anime/filler when I see nothing that supports the claim.

The cover of V-Jump is certainly one thing which I do admit is in bad taste, but fortunately for him it wasn't a part of the DBS manga and thus not part of your argument. I suspect he won't do it again and if he does, then yes he's an idiot.

You choose to bolster your argument using what-ifs and lend clear bias and favoritism towards a certain author.

So I ask one more time, show me clear evidence that he is "copying" countless times, otherwise you're no better than a sheep who jumps bandwagon onto a trend without hard evidence for his/her claims.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Noitsnothim » Wed May 29, 2019 9:45 pm

Rakurai wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:03 pm
Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 1:01 am
I did prove to you that he consistently does it's called zooming in and if you don't want to accept it that's fine don't forget he traced that Captain America pose
also...when it comes to the Broly movie at least when it does make homages it adds a new spin to what it's referencing rather than blatantly copy it and just add a different character to its pose
You didn't prove shit, you just posted a collage that doesn't even belong to you that's clusterfucked with references and some irrelevant, misleading, and overreaching pictures. Like showing a side-by-side comparison of 17 touching his chest that's supposed to indicate a transition to a flashback in the same page! Like "copying" scenes from Battle of the Gods when there is already source material out for it! Smfh. A few of those are from his DB AF days too! Don't be a sheep, give me what I asked for and don't use somebody else's poor shoddy attempts at discrediting a mangaka.

But hey, you know what? Even the best, most popular mangaka are no different. From One Piece:
These are all very close to each other in period of release, and let me tell you that's not even the tip of the iceberg for a long-running series like One Piece.

Your argument is very much based on subjective, soft points like "adds a new spin," "soulless," "looking weird," etc. Very much based on preference, hardly anything of substance.

You choose to overlook the fact that being a sequel of the manga, he is perfectly allowed to reference a few poses here and there. He's not overwhelming any single chapter with them which is why it's not a problem. He's not even batting an average of 1-2 references per chapter from the DB manga. He is perfectly allowed to recycle his own poses as many times as he wants.

You claim stuff like "copying" from Z anime/filler when I see nothing that supports the claim.

The cover of V-Jump is certainly one thing which I do admit is in bad taste, but fortunately for him it wasn't a part of the DBS manga and thus not part of your argument. I suspect he won't do it again and if he does, then yes he's an idiot.

You choose to bolster your argument using what-ifs and lend clear bias and favoritism towards a certain author.

So I ask one more time, show me clear evidence that he is "copying" countless times, otherwise you're no better than a sheep who jumps bandwagon onto a trend without hard evidence for his/her claims.
It was bad of you to show those One Piece references cause at least that there is an artist who actually fixes his art when he reuses it especially the last one but when it comes to Toyotaro WHO THE HELL wants to see an old panel from the previous manga or a scene from the anime again *examples: kefla's lasers serving as a reference for Moro's battle against the kais* which was also in the collage it's boring and uninspiring because he's unoriginal himself the plot of the new saga is a start when it comes to his creativity but the excessive references ruin it (The last volume that was released in japan) has one of the worst covers on both the front and back Jiren doesn't change other than him getting battle damaged

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Thu May 30, 2019 9:47 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 9:45 pm
It was bad of you to show those One Piece references cause at least that there is an artist who actually fixes his art when he reuses it especially the last one but when it comes to Toyotaro WHO THE HELL wants to see an old panel from the previous manga or a scene from the anime again *examples: kefla's lasers serving as a reference for Moro's battle against the kais* which was also in the collage it's boring and uninspiring because he's unoriginal himself the plot of the new saga is a start when it comes to his creativity but the excessive references ruin it (The last volume that was released in japan) has one of the worst covers on both the front and back Jiren doesn't change other than him getting battle damaged
I'm appalled. You're so biased you don't even realize it yourself in your writing. And if you do, then I'm very disappointed you would even put this response forth as any attempt of an argument. You still haven't countered or addressed any of my points either, so getting I'm sick of this.

You'd be better off waiting for Lee to start writing that Jump Force manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mfwlegend3 » Thu May 30, 2019 10:41 am

There’s obvious bias from both parties at play here.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Thu May 30, 2019 11:42 am

Everyone's biased. Everyone brings their own preconceptions, experiences, thoughts, perspectives, likes, dislikes, etc. to every piece of media they absorb.

If also you're focusing on here is "bias", you're literally not saying anything. It's a very transparent dismissal tactic, and it's super embarrassing to read.

Rather than "you're biased" to "both sides", I'd go with "these comments are so needlessly aggressive that it's impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the underlying content." Please do better!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by mfwlegend3 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:11 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:42 am
Everyone's biased. Everyone brings their own preconceptions, experiences, thoughts, perspectives, likes, dislikes, etc. to every piece of media they absorb.

If also you're focusing on here is "bias", you're literally not saying anything. It's a very transparent dismissal tactic, and it's super embarrassing to read.

Rather than "you're biased" to "both sides", I'd go with "these comments are so needlessly aggressive that it's impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the underlying content." Please do better!
Personal bias can’t get in the way of debate. When you’ve already made up your mind prior from the start, you tend to dismiss what the other person is saying and refuse to adhere to their arguments. You cannot be deterred nor convinced and that leads into shit flinging. So yes bias can be toxic.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Robo4900 » Thu May 30, 2019 12:16 pm

I just caught up on the two chapters I hadn't read yet.

Fun stuff. Really glad to see Boo getting his time in the limelight, and I do really enjoy seeing Boo employing some of his batshit loco abilities.
Honestly, I'm not really feeling Moro as a villain... Maybe when the anime gets there, they'll cast a performer who can make him fun enough to overcome his rather bland characterisation.
Still, the plot progression is going some rather fun directions. I kinda wish we'd had the ultimate subversion of Moro's buddy betraying him and wishing himself to have all Moro's power or something, that could've been a lot more interesting, but what they did works, I guess.

Boo turning into the dead Kaio is a neat nod.

I don't know where this arc is going, but so far it really feels like they're finally trying to do a follow-up story to the Boo arc, and it's certainly got a lot of interesting ideas being thrown around.

Odd thing is, it feels both rushed and bloated. It's rushed, because we're basically going from A to B at breakneck spead, but it's bloated because everything is loaded with plot an exposition, there's really not much character stuff going on.

I feel kinda the same thing I've felt with a lot of the manga; it's fun stuff, I'm glad I'm reading it, but it's quite insubstantial, and I kinda wish there was just more to it. Maybe when the anime comes back, they'll give it a swing and do some good, though I have a feeling what they'll give us will be loaded with even more clunky exposition, massively padded out, and only improve things in the respect that the fights will be prettier, and some of the blander characters may have some fun performances backing them up, but the plot overall will have some general restructuring that ends up making it less interesting. In other words, I imagine we'll get exactly what we got in the pre-Broly run. Though at least this time around, presumably Shintani will be on board, so presumably the animation will be much nicer.

Still, much as I have my criticisms, I do enjoy having ten minutes of Dragon Ball to read every month, even if it's largely insubstantial, and pretty unnecessary.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Rakurai » Thu May 30, 2019 1:53 pm

mfwlegend3 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 10:41 am
There’s obvious bias from both parties at play here.
VegettoEX wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 11:42 am
Everyone's biased. Everyone brings their own preconceptions, experiences, thoughts, perspectives, likes, dislikes, etc. to every piece of media they absorb.

If also you're focusing on here is "bias", you're literally not saying anything. It's a very transparent dismissal tactic, and it's super embarrassing to read.

Rather than "you're biased" to "both sides", I'd go with "these comments are so needlessly aggressive that it's impossible to have a legitimate conversation about the underlying content." Please do better!
Okay then, he's a hypocrite.

He bashes "an old panel from the previous manga or a scene from the anime again" when I've shown to him that even the most prolific mangaka tend to do it. And he dismisses it even though the level of copying is roughly the same.

He acts as if the manga is guilty of reusing old panels when the anime recycles animation frequently too. Episode 129 anyone?

He talks about ripping off his "Sensei's hardwork" when the sensei literally ripped off an entire Z film, maybe two, for the Super film by recycling the concept of an old popular character. As if Toriyama is supposedly more creative and original than him. Like mentor, like apprentice I suppose.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:57 am

Diggz92 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 6:27 am
HeroR wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 9:54 pm
TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 7:37 pm
I wonder, where did Goku go at the end of the chapter? He used Instant transmission, but he was not able to feel Moro Ki. Did he go to Earth or something? I remember he said he wanted to get some Senzu




Goku did not even have Ki enough to use Instant Transmission. He could barely use his Ki until the Galactic Patrol arrived.

Moro with his restored magical power would be much faster (not to mention that the scene wanted to emphasize the great power up he received)

And I understand your point, but at least for me, training is not a justification for any kind of power up, even if it seems deserved.

Even though I find the power up that Boo received in the manga a bit exaggerated, the way it happened is interesting, a possibility that already existed and was never explored.
I'm not talking about teleporting, I'm talking about flying. Something Namek Saga Goku could do despite being a weakling by today's standards flew over half of Namek in a second. That and the whole 'too weak to teleported' is also contrived since it has been three days. Goku recovering from a freaking heart attack somehow came out healthy than this after a few days.

Moro talked to the Freeza soldier for several seconds before he got his power back and again, Namek Saga Goku crossed half of Namek in a few seconds.

So Buu is Dorothy.
You do know that this isn't the same Namek? If I remember correctly this new Namek is a lot bigger than the old one. But I get your point about but the other guy is right about Goku and Vegeta was still recovering from there power loss from Moro. It takes a lot of enegry to fly fast/teleport they were going to stop regardless when Moro got his full power.

Goku wasnt fighting anyone after he had a heart attack he chilled for a while as everyone was fighting and training. I don't think Goku vs 2nd form cell would last long
Even if New Namek is bigger, a weakened Goku and Vegeta at this point shouldn't take several seconds to fly across the planet that an airship makes it almost at the same time as they arrived and the ship left after them.

Goku didn't chill after he recovered. He teleported three times after he was well, first to get Gohan, then Trunks and Vegeta, and finally to Kami's Lookout.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:02 am

LightBing wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 12:22 pm
In the manga UI doesn't have the auto-dodge mechanic. Goku took hits which were limited since he purposely avoided them hitting his vitals. That said his dodging improved greatly.

UI in the manga is all I hoped it would be, unfortunately it's hard to translate it. Goku isn't hitting harder or resisting damage better, he's just fighting much better do to UI. Wish Toyotarõ changed the effects of the hit's to tell us that.

He is hitting harder, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hurt Jiren. Just dodge since Goku at his max couldn't do a thing against Jiren.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:09 am

Noitsnothim wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 5:22 pm
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:54 pm
Rakurai wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 4:43 pm


I disagree with that. Toyotarou's battles are some of the best out all of DB has to offer. Particularly the fight between SSJ2 Goku vs. SSJ2 FTrunks, CSSB Goku & Merged Zamasu, the GoD exhibition match, Goku vs Toppo, and UI Goku vs Jiren. But I expect we won't be seeing eye-to-eye on this.
Out of all those fights you listed, only Goku vs Merged Zamas was pretty good (for Toyotaro standards). Toyotaro's fights are rather repetitious and bland for the most part. Lee provides beautifully choreographed fights with accompanying clean art.
THANK YOU!!! Yeah Goku Vs. Merged Zamasu and maybe MUI Goku Vs. Full Power Jiren (For Toyo Standards) were pretty good but even then those feature copied moments from previous moments in the franchise and its not good for Super because as the years will go by fans will continue to notice these types of things and It'll hurt the Manga's rep (Super not DB)
That loses point when UI Goku punching Jiren in the gut was ripped from Goku punching Piccolo Jr.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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