"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:12 pm

emperior wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:54 pm
Grimlock wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:29 pm
Glad I'm not the only one who thought about that. Though my view is slightly different, instead of Bardock's spirit appearing just like Goku's spirit appears in Movie 10, it would be merely his sillhouette appearing on top of Goku's image. That's what should have happened. Huge missed opportunity.
I heavily disagree. Bardock (at least Toei’s Bardock) unlike Goku is not someone who would ever spare Freeza. That last blast of Goku was not something he wanted to do but something he was forced to do. That’s why the very next scene he’s sad. While Bardock would have been happy.

Including Bardock there would have been incredibly out of place. In the last moments of the special, he projected on his son his own hatred for Freeza and his will for revenge, “avenge the Saiyans, Kakarot” or something similar.
But Goku is different, he’s a Saiyan raised on Earth.
He accepted his Saiyan pride and heritage but always rejected their society and their ways.

To include Bardock there it would make the moment feel like “finally the Saiyans have been avenged”.
But that scene is quite the opposite of it. If anything, it’s one of the most symbolic of how different Goku is from other Saiyans, as he was still able to feel remorse and empathy toward such a being as Freeza.
All of that despite having become the legendary warrior of race, the being who was supposed to be a brutal bloodthirsty warrior.
It’s a very personal scene for Goku and it’s very characterizing.

Thank god this drawing is just a pure fantasy what-if.
That really isn’t just Toei’s Bardock. No version of Bardock anywhere (Minus, Heroes, Dragon Ball Super Broly) likes Frieza and would happily kill him.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by The Undying » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:17 pm

emperior wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:28 pm
This art of Bardock and Goku doing a father-son Kamehameha has been creating a lot of fuss.
Before the same happens here, let me address a few things.
Just keep in mind most of the responses to that piece have been positive; the bare minimum being somewhere along the lines of "Oh that's neat" or "That's pretty cool promo art".

The ones harshly criticizing it are generally the same Twitter users routinely complaining about Toyotaro regardless of what he does. The fact that I've seen it come from people with stiff body proportions and anatomical inconsistencies in their own fan art is the cherry on top of the shit sundae.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:24 pm

Doesn't the article say something about how there's some difference between the Bardock that cameo'd in the Z manga and the OVA? Google translate says something about the left wrist strap but that doesn't sound right honestly. Either way, it's cool if he made note of a minor detail in the manga Bardock.

Ultimately I like the art. It's just fanservice for a figure being made. I don't get what all the fuss is about on twitter and whatnot, some people really just seem obsessed with Toyotaro to the point of commenting on everything he does with vitriol.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by batistabus » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:42 pm

The Kanzenshuu translation is out!

https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2020/07/15/n ... gure-form/
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... gure-form/
Dragon Wukong wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:24 pm
Doesn't the article say something about how there's some difference between the Bardock that cameo'd in the Z manga and the OVA? Google translate says something about the left wrist strap but that doesn't sound right honestly. Either way, it's cool if he made note of a minor detail in the manga Bardock.
Toyotaro wrote:Bardock was an anime-original character who wound up being reverse-imported for just two frames of the original manga. However, the one I’ve drawn this time actually isn’t the anime Bardock, but rather the one from the manga. In the scene where he’s killed in the anime, Bardock has already lost the wristband on his left arm, but in the manga it’s still attached. So I tried to line mine up with the manga.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:46 pm

This really doesn't have anything to do with the Dragon Ball Super manga, though -- again, it's being turned into a figure.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:51 pm

Think its time we get back to the manga topic. I vote this chapter is a curbstomp against the Z fighters, until they can separate Moro they aren't doing jack to him. Moro is legit running circles around them.

Wait, if by some chance Moro necked Goku do you think he'd be able to go UI? I mean, I don't think Moro would know how to maintain it for a long period of time. Goku got spent using it and I doubt Moro, having never used the ability, would know how to not make it waste his energy.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:54 pm

Putting that lot through Google Translate earlier, I suppose it doesn't bear mentioning at this point that god, Toyble is a massive nerd. The whole attention to detail that he based the drawing purely off the manga's version of Bardock with both wristbands is cool but it's also just like... ugh, get in the locker, weeb.

I kid.

Anyway, I quite like the piece, honestly. I think the reason for the particular postures of Goku and Bardock together rather than Bardock being like a spirit behind his son or whatever is simply because Goku's "BAKA-YAROU" blast is popularly called the "Angry Kamehameha", even though it looks nothing like a Kamehameha. My immediate reaction was that Bardock is there to complete the hand motion, so that a genuinely cool detail. The overall artwork is pretty smashing. Toyotaro outright calls it his delusional fanboy fantasy interpretation of what could have happened -- I'd say there's a 0.0% chance of it actually having "canonical" bearing over the story in any way. It's just a cool sketch, calm down.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by emperior » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:20 pm

It’s no big news that Toyotaro is a big fanboy of Bardock as he also made a fanmanga (Dragon Ball Zero iirc) which depicted Bardock’s and Raditz’ lives before Planet Vegeta’s destruction.
In one of his monthly drawings Toyotaro also pictured a what-if scenario which included the Bardock’s TV special gang (https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations ... o-drew-it/).

I wonder, had Toyotaro been given the opportunity to adapt Broly’s movie in the manga, if he would have tried to use some elements from the TV special like he did in that monthly drawing.
It would have been cool if, after contact between Bardock and his crew ceased, the events played exactly the same as in the TV special (barring the scenes where Goku is seen as an infant or mentioned to Bardock, and the future visions scenes).

I wished Broly’s movie would have explored exactly what happens to canon Bardock for him to go and confront Freeza alone. I go by Toyotaro’s own headcanon and also headcanon that the events of the TV special which can fit also happened the same.

Maybe Toriyama wanted fans to imagine what happened to Bardock to go confront Freeza? But that would be dumb as our imagination would of course be screwed by what we saw in the special.
I really wished that either Toyotaro made a bonus manga detailing what exactly happened to Bardock, or Toei made a new TV special about Minus’ Bardock.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:49 pm

Again, this drawing and toy have nothing to do with the Dragon Ball Super manga. You're free and encouraged to make other threads discussing other productions!
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:06 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:49 pm
Again, this drawing and toy have nothing to do with the Dragon Ball Super manga. You're free and encouraged to make other threads discussing other productions!
Isn't it an extension of "Toyotaro Draws" though? Discussion of that and his usual "what-ifs" usually end up here due to his role as DBS manga author. It doesn't seem like the discussion is about the figure so much as just the drawing associated with it. Maybe there could be a separate thread for "Toyotaro Draws" discussion?

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by EGonzo » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:09 pm

As cool as I think that drawing looks, I wish he'd done the new Bardock. I prefer the new design but that's not important. The new design is canon, so I feel they should start moving on from the old.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:51 pm

Dragon Wukong wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:06 pm
VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:49 pm
Again, this drawing and toy have nothing to do with the Dragon Ball Super manga. You're free and encouraged to make other threads discussing other productions!
Isn't it an extension of "Toyotaro Draws" though? Discussion of that and his usual "what-ifs" usually end up here due to his role as DBS manga author. It doesn't seem like the discussion is about the figure so much as just the drawing associated with it. Maybe there could be a separate thread for "Toyotaro Draws" discussion?
Speaking of which, I recently found out that Toyotaro apparently did a "Drew It" sketch of your profile pic, God Broly, though it's not listed on the Kanzenshuu folder. It's pretty good. A lot of his older sketches were way more detailed and stylised. He's also dropped the "What If" angle in his descriptions for most of them, this Bardock one being the big exception, which is a little disappointing. Now he just draws a really obscure manga extra and says "yeah, this character's cool". Still enjoy seeing them, but yeah...

Anyway, moving on...

(This may not be relevant to the current storyline (I generally don't read drafts so I try to avoid spoilers) but it is a manga discussion point) I think Toyo excels at intimidating villain designs when he puts his mind to it. The way he would draw Goku Black, for example, would always look genuinely frightening and malicious. Moro's original design also followed that trend. Believe it or not, this is not some lead-in to another Moro 7-3 bashing.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by TKA » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:18 pm

I think Dragonball* needs to take a cue from DC* and stop trying to make Goku’s dad super special.

Note 1: lets be honest here, this larger franchise is shallow as fuck and has absolutely no artistic integrity. Toriyama wont rein them in, and Shueisha only cares about the bottom line.

Note 2: specifically the movies. I’m sure there are comics about Jor-El and how big his dick is. The latest movie he appeared in, he chose to die because he’s as much a failed product of Krypton as all the other Kryptonians, and he wanted his son to grow up without all their terrible beliefs. I miss when Bardock was just a low-class Warrior who died a useless death and was barely a footnote in history.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:01 pm

TKA wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:18 pm

This larger franchise is shallow as fuck and has absolutely no artistic integrity. Toriyama wont rein them in, and Shueisha only cares about the bottom line.

I miss when Bardock was just a low-class Warrior who died a useless death and was barely a footnote in history.
Toriyama ? he's the main one holding this franchise back. As far as I can see, his contribution should've ended with BOG.

Same here, as not everyone has to be special or important. The problem with Bardock now is they're trying too hard, resulting in him being less than he was back in the day, as it just comes off as desperate. Sometimes less is more, especially in the case of someone like Bardock.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by MCDaveG » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:21 pm

Yeah, I am also not a fan of the Saiyan revisionist history... I am fan of Heroes alt stuff, like Bardock beings SSJ and other what-ifs, but Bardock wasn’t anyone special and it really doesn’t make sense for him to be SSJ, SSJ2 or SSJ3... but that is still OK. I know that Toriyama is the creator and do whatever he wants with his characters, but making Jor-El knock off and a kind Saiyan mother out of the ruthless race kind of broke the status quo I was used to...
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:33 pm

MCDaveG wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:21 pm
I am fan of Heroes alt stuff, like Bardock beings SSJ and other what-ifs, but Bardock wasn’t anyone special and it really doesn’t make sense for him to be SSJ, SSJ2 or SSJ3... but that is still OK.
I give all video games a free pass, be it Heroes or any other, they can go all out with whatever they want to do. When it comes to the main story however, not only do I think more care needs to go into it, but they should be very careful with the kind of content they decide to go with. It's one thing to go all crazy with a video game, but I think the standards of the main story should be leagues above what's being done in the games, something everyone involved with this franchise has completely failed at. Not only has the main story turned into a glorified merchandise commercial, an argument can be made that the merchandise (video games) is doing a better job with the stories. Things should never have gotten close to that, much less actually happened.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:33 pm

Yeah, Bardock ain't that special....

But about Moro, you guys think if he necked Goku he'd be able to obtain UI? Even if he did, Moro doesn't know how to maintain it. If he did get it, he'd probably tire himself out like Goku did.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Matches Malone » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:47 pm

Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:33 pm
About Moro, you guys think if he necked Goku he'd be able to obtain UI? If he did get it, he'd probably tire himself out like Goku did.
I don't see why he wouldn't, and I agree that he'll probably end up like Goku did against Jiren, which could give them a massive opening to taking him down.

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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Femme Fatale Kikaza » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:50 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:47 pm
Femme Fatale Kikaza wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:33 pm
About Moro, you guys think if he necked Goku he'd be able to obtain UI? If he did get it, he'd probably tire himself out like Goku did.
I don't see why he wouldn't, and I agree that he'll probably end up like Goku did against Jiren, which could give them a massive opening to taking him down.
That's the only way I see Vegeta getting the chance to defuse him without the interference of Beerus or god forbid Merus. If he copies Goku the only way to respond to UI is hoping his body can't maintain it and fail him. Moro can't defend himself if his body is failing him and Vegeta would zoom over to try and defuse him before he can recover.
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Re: "Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:11 pm

Here folks. No more derailing this thread.

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