"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:58 pm

Zombie wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
Kagari wrote:Thank you for the translation, Herms.

Interesting to note it wasn't sad if they could sub in a 5th person due to Buu's failure or not. I suspect the anime will address this in more detail.

I think gohan will be the 5th. Super's manga and anime suggested he will improve. What with the training along with vegeta's comment of his potential.
It's the most obvious choice. There has to be a meaning for that Gohan build up.

I hope he gets a new form. Him and kabe should have a form different from the god branch of transformations. Pipe dream but I still want it.
I wounder if the manga and anime will have different fights.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Wezenheim » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:07 pm

Maybe Piccolo will fight first in the anime. Maybe Toriyama's outline of the tournament is vague enough for differences like that.

I still feel like he will probably be used as a measuring stick, but I hope the anime expands upon Piccolo's power boost (if he has a significant one). As stated by others before, there's also a chance that someone will just have weird abilities only he can fight against.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:10 pm

Wezenheim wrote:Maybe Piccolo will fight first in the anime. Maybe Toriyama's outline of the tournament is vague enough for differences like that.

Exactly. We don't know the notes. I consider the anime as the true version of what happens and the manga promotional, some think only the manga is canon which doesn't sit with me. They should release the notes though some day. He should fight either Hit or Oolong as a robot XD
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Lionel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:21 pm

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
Lionel wrote:So Piccolo is capable of matching the unfathomable realms of power that Goku and Vegeta have attained after a few days of training with Gohan? I hope not. This series has been lambasted enough for its horrid inconsistencies. Having someone other than Goku or Vegeta receive meaningful screen time is one thing that most fans can agree upon, but I don't want it to come at the expense of damaging DBZ's credibility even further.
Why assume he will get strong only by training Gohan ? There's Namekian Book of Legends,Whis' ROSAT or whatever.
There's no certainty of Piccolo getting stronger in the first place. Fans jumped to that conclusion just because he was asked to train Gohan. Regarding the other possibilities -- how would he get to Namek if Goku is busy training with Whis and then Vegeta in the ROSAT? I question if enough time has elapsed for him to use the Dragonballs to wish himself there. This leaves Whis who has been training Goku and Vegeta for quite some time now and appear to be making only moderate gains in strength.

I'm not dismissing the possibility of Piccolo having increased his power. My hopes are merely tempered with the reality of Toriyama wanting to keep Goku and Vegeta as the two prime fighters of this new series. I think Piccolo would be doing well to fight evenly with one of the weaker U6 contestants for a time before going down. Maybe he can stalemate Frost with his initial power?

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:02 pm

Piccolo must have got more powerful either by training with gohan or whis or something to do with the namekian book of legends. There is no way he is going to lose easy or going to fight evenly with the weakest just to lose and have vegeta one shot that character. He has to be somewhere near vegeta and goku beacuse it would be a waste of time otherwise him participating. I'm also sure that the fighters in the uiverse 6 team have about the same power apart from 1.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Khin » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:05 pm

Lionel wrote:There's no certainty of Piccolo getting stronger in the first place. Fans jumped to that conclusion just because he was asked to train Gohan. Regarding the other possibilities -- how would he get to Namek if Goku is busy training with Whis and then Vegeta in the ROSAT? I question if enough time has elapsed for him to use the Dragonballs to wish himself there. This leaves Whis who has been training Goku and Vegeta for quite some time now and appear to be making only moderate gains in strength.

I'm not dismissing the possibility of Piccolo having increased his power. My hopes are merely tempered with the reality of Toriyama wanting to keep Goku and Vegeta as the two prime fighters of this new series. I think Piccolo would be doing well to fight evenly with one of the weaker U6 contestants for a time before going down. Maybe he can stalemate Frost with his initial power?
Whis is not w/ Goku and Vegeta in the ROSAT,they train there by themselves.That alone is a big hint that Whis is probably with Piccolo,either training him or taking him to Namek.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Zelvin » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:22 pm

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: Whis is not w/ Goku and Vegeta in the ROSAT,they train there by themselves.That alone is a big hint that Whis is probably with Piccolo,either training him or taking him to Namek.
There is the possibility Piccolo could, ya know, use Telepathy to speak with King Kai and use him like a phone operator to get connected with the Namekian elders and see what they know about the Book of Legends. Or, in a bigger twist, use King Kai to make contact with the spirit of Guru, the Eldest One and original creator of the Namekian Dragon Balls. Plenty of possibilities. Nothing but speculation though.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Lionel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:39 pm

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
Lionel wrote:There's no certainty of Piccolo getting stronger in the first place. Fans jumped to that conclusion just because he was asked to train Gohan. Regarding the other possibilities -- how would he get to Namek if Goku is busy training with Whis and then Vegeta in the ROSAT? I question if enough time has elapsed for him to use the Dragonballs to wish himself there. This leaves Whis who has been training Goku and Vegeta for quite some time now and appear to be making only moderate gains in strength.

I'm not dismissing the possibility of Piccolo having increased his power. My hopes are merely tempered with the reality of Toriyama wanting to keep Goku and Vegeta as the two prime fighters of this new series. I think Piccolo would be doing well to fight evenly with one of the weaker U6 contestants for a time before going down. Maybe he can stalemate Frost with his initial power?
Whis is not w/ Goku and Vegeta in the ROSAT,they train there by themselves.That alone is a big hint that Whis is probably with Piccolo,either training him or taking him to Namek.
How is it a hint? There's nothing implying that Piccolo's connection to Whis became any less formal than when they were mutual spectators of Goku's fight against Freeza. I think it would be a pretty significant detail to mention if he and Gohan were going to train with Whis or if they were working together to acquire the Namekian Book of Legends. We might as well assume that Krillin is training with Whis too since he showed an interest in returning to martial arts after assessing Goku's power through a punch.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Khin » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:45 pm

Lionel wrote:How is it a hint? There's nothing implying that Piccolo's connection to Whis became any less formal than when they were mutual spectators of Goku's fight against Freeza. I think it would be a pretty significant detail to mention if he and Gohan were going to train with Whis or if they were working together to acquire the Namekian Book of Legends. We might as well assume that Krillin is training with Whis too since he showed an interest in returning to martial arts after assessing Goku's power through a punch.
Whis not being with Goku and Vegeta means that he is probably something.Piccolo was confirmed to be a part of the team so it could be possibly that Whis trains him.We know Beerus goes to visit Monaka but it would't make sense for them to take three days for it.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by The Doc » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:48 pm

With the way Vegeta miraculously busted out SSGSS at the end of Resurrection F, and shocked the world, I wouldn't be surprised if Piccolo whipped out Super Namekian God during the tourney, and then they just throw in another quick "oh yeah this is new power he found on his own through his training with Gohan" type explanation.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Neon Z » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:05 pm

Lionel wrote:How is it a hint? There's nothing implying that Piccolo's connection to Whis became any less formal than when they were mutual spectators of Goku's fight against Freeza. I think it would be a pretty significant detail to mention if he and Gohan were going to train with Whis or if they were working together to acquire the Namekian Book of Legends. We might as well assume that Krillin is training with Whis too since he showed an interest in returning to martial arts after assessing Goku's power through a punch.
Well, at the very least, we have Beerus saying that Monaka is stronger than the others and then lumping Piccolo with Goku and Vegeta. Also, Piccolo not showing any hesitation regarding a lack of power, in spite of Goku going first (which would mean that he'd have no chance against anyone that could beat Goku).

Yes, we also haven't seen any hints about him training with Whis, but that's because we haven't seen anything about his preparation to the tournament at all in the manga. It's probably a result of the manga needing to be faster than the anime, so they'll probably only give any explanation when Piccolo is about to fight, while in the anime we might get some stuff before that, like how we now know that he had been training with Gohan before the tournament stuff starts.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by phattangent » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:08 pm

The Doc wrote:With the way Vegeta miraculously busted out SSGSS at the end of Resurrection F, and shocked the world, I wouldn't be surprised if Piccolo whipped out Super Namekian God during the tourney, and then they just throw in another quick "oh yeah this is new power he found on his own through his training with Gohan" type explanation.
I would hope there would be at least little more explanation than that.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Lionel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:20 pm

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
Lionel wrote:How is it a hint? There's nothing implying that Piccolo's connection to Whis became any less formal than when they were mutual spectators of Goku's fight against Freeza. I think it would be a pretty significant detail to mention if he and Gohan were going to train with Whis or if they were working together to acquire the Namekian Book of Legends. We might as well assume that Krillin is training with Whis too since he showed an interest in returning to martial arts after assessing Goku's power through a punch.
Whis not being with Goku and Vegeta means that he is probably something.Piccolo was confirmed to be a part of the team so it could be possibly that Whis trains him.We know Beerus goes to visit Monaka but it would't make sense for them to take three days for it.
I think I recall Whis leaving Goku and Vegeta to spar with each other after the Resurrection of F arc before they entered the ROSAT. He likely spent his time doing whatever it is he does in his spare time. Buu was also selected to join the team, but I doubt he committed himself to anything besides eating and sleeping. Just because someone is picked for the tournament doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be training prior to the tournament's beginning. Piccolo was expressly singled out by Gohan this last episode. What's more -- Piccolo has never sought anyone for tutelage besides King Kai and that was when he was traveling together with the human fighters. Why would he choose to do so when the only incentive now is to help Gohan get back into fighting shape? I assume he would be spending as much of his time as possible trying to help out his close friend instead of going out of his way looking for personal instruction with Whis.
Neon Z wrote:
Lionel wrote:How is it a hint? There's nothing implying that Piccolo's connection to Whis became any less formal than when they were mutual spectators of Goku's fight against Freeza. I think it would be a pretty significant detail to mention if he and Gohan were going to train with Whis or if they were working together to acquire the Namekian Book of Legends. We might as well assume that Krillin is training with Whis too since he showed an interest in returning to martial arts after assessing Goku's power through a punch.
Well, at the very least, we have Beerus saying that Monaka is stronger than the others and then lumping Piccolo with Goku and Vegeta. Also, Piccolo not showing any hesitation regarding a lack of power, in spite of Goku going first (which would mean that he'd have no chance against anyone that could beat Goku).

Yes, we also haven't seen any hints about him training with Whis, but that's because we haven't seen anything about his preparation to the tournament at all in the manga. It's probably a result of the manga needing to be faster than the anime, so they'll probably only give any explanation when Piccolo is about to fight, while in the anime we might get some stuff before that, like how we now know that he had been training with Gohan before the tournament stuff starts.
Beerus would have likely categorised Buu with them as well since his line of reasoning during that comment appears to be concerned with differentiating everyone who isn't Monaka from Monaka. The reasons for us not hearing anything concerning Piccolo's input on the tournament may have to do with the fact that he's neither a major protagonist or set to fight at this moment. Goku could very easily tag out for a while since I doubt Vegeta would allow him to keep all of the matches to himself, especially not Kyabe. Why should Piccolo be concerned when he's got Vegeta and Monaka behind him? I'm thinking Botamo might lose, then if Goku decides to tag out and give the others a chance, Piccolo will fight. Since I'm expecting his opponent to be Frost, he'll give a good demonstration of how much he's improved before Frost decides to transform, thus returning the power advantage to him and winning the match. It could be an opportunity for Vegeta to make up for his botched fight against Freeza by winning against Frost.

Like I said above, Piccolo has never trained under anyone except King Kai. His only reason for training with anyone now has to do with bringing Gohan back up to a fit level so he can protect his loved ones. It's hard to believe that he would abandon Gohan to train for three measly days with Whis. The pay off probably wouldn't really be worth it to begin with. Piccolo was vastly inferior to Goku and Vegeta before they ever acquired the god forms. Not only is he starting from a much lower point of strength, he also has no transformations and would be working with Whis for only a fraction of the time it took the two Saiyans to reach the level they're at now.

I think Piccolo's only avenues for importance now lie in getting his hands on this book of legends or achieving some fused state with Zarama.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Neon Z » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:11 pm

Lionel wrote:Beerus would have likely categorised Buu with them as well since his line of reasoning during that comment appears to be concerned with differentiating everyone who isn't Monaka from Monaka.
He wanted Monaka as the last one because he was the strongest, so that logic would imply that he'd want a vastly weaker fighter to be the first, but he's satisfied with making Monaka the last one and then lumps the other together. Although he says that Monaka is the strongest one there, Goku did impress him too, enough to make him spare Earth. And now he's just lumping Piccolo with that Goku.
The reasons for us not hearing anything concerning Piccolo's input on the tournament may have to do with the fact that he's neither a major protagonist or set to fight at this moment.
We did hear some comments from him in this chapter though, but nothing that implied that he was behind his other team mates.
Goku could very easily tag out for a while since I doubt Vegeta would allow him to keep all of the matches to himself, especially not Kyabe. Why should Piccolo be concerned when he's got Vegeta and Monaka behind him? I'm thinking Botamo might lose, then if Goku decides to tag out and give the others a chance, Piccolo will fight. Since I'm expecting his opponent to be Frost, he'll give a good demonstration of how much he's improved before Frost decides to transform, thus returning the power advantage to him and winning the match. It could be an opportunity for Vegeta to make up for his botched fight against Freeza by winning against Frost.
Goku in the chapter claims that he'll finish everything by himself if he can do it. And nothing has been mentioned about tagging out at all.
Like I said above, Piccolo has never trained under anyone except King Kai. His only reason for training with anyone now has to do with bringing Gohan back up to a fit level so he can protect his loved ones. It's hard to believe that he would abandon Gohan to train for three measly days with Whis. The pay off probably wouldn't really be worth it to begin with. Piccolo was vastly inferior to Goku and Vegeta before they ever acquired the god forms. Not only is he starting from a much lower point of strength, he also has no transformations and would be working with Whis for only a fraction of the time it took the two Saiyans to reach the level they're at now.

I think Piccolo's only avenues for importance now lie in getting his hands on this book of legends or achieving some fused state with Zarama.
Whis has that RoSaT-like place though. So, 3 days could become 3 years.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:55 pm

I have talked about this before but that promotonal poster released in june keeps making more sense all the time as it has Champa holding earth and Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta big in the middle with everyone else smaller around them on the poster
Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo seem to be the main characters in this arc.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Miracles » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:24 pm

Lionel wrote:So Piccolo is capable of matching the unfathomable realms of power that Goku and Vegeta have attained after a few days of training with Gohan? I hope not. This series has been lambasted enough for its horrid inconsistencies. Having someone other than Goku or Vegeta receive meaningful screen time is one thing that most fans can agree upon, but I don't want it to come at the expense of damaging DBZ's credibility even further.
As if Piccolo never attained power to battle the current strongest foes. That is consistent Dragon ball.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Lionel » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:20 pm

Neon Z wrote:
Lionel wrote:Beerus would have likely categorised Buu with them as well since his line of reasoning during that comment appears to be concerned with differentiating everyone who isn't Monaka from Monaka.
He wanted Monaka as the last one because he was the strongest, so that logic would imply that he'd want a vastly weaker fighter to be the first, but he's satisfied with making Monaka the last one and then lumps the other together. Although he says that Monaka is the strongest one there, Goku did impress him too, enough to make him spare Earth. And now he's just lumping Piccolo with that Goku.
The reasons for us not hearing anything concerning Piccolo's input on the tournament may have to do with the fact that he's neither a major protagonist or set to fight at this moment.
We did hear some comments from him in this chapter though, but nothing that implied that he was behind his other team mates.
Goku could very easily tag out for a while since I doubt Vegeta would allow him to keep all of the matches to himself, especially not Kyabe. Why should Piccolo be concerned when he's got Vegeta and Monaka behind him? I'm thinking Botamo might lose, then if Goku decides to tag out and give the others a chance, Piccolo will fight. Since I'm expecting his opponent to be Frost, he'll give a good demonstration of how much he's improved before Frost decides to transform, thus returning the power advantage to him and winning the match. It could be an opportunity for Vegeta to make up for his botched fight against Freeza by winning against Frost.
Goku in the chapter claims that he'll finish everything by himself if he can do it. And nothing has been mentioned about tagging out at all.
Like I said above, Piccolo has never trained under anyone except King Kai. His only reason for training with anyone now has to do with bringing Gohan back up to a fit level so he can protect his loved ones. It's hard to believe that he would abandon Gohan to train for three measly days with Whis. The pay off probably wouldn't really be worth it to begin with. Piccolo was vastly inferior to Goku and Vegeta before they ever acquired the god forms. Not only is he starting from a much lower point of strength, he also has no transformations and would be working with Whis for only a fraction of the time it took the two Saiyans to reach the level they're at now.

I think Piccolo's only avenues for importance now lie in getting his hands on this book of legends or achieving some fused state with Zarama.
Whis has that RoSaT-like place though. So, 3 days could become 3 years.
Just as Beerus allowed Goku and Vegeta to decide who they should bring along as teammates, he may very well have consented to letting them decide the order in which they fight. His prime investment for this tournament appears to be in Monaka so he wishes to maintain exlusionary rights in choosing when he participates. How would Beerus know the exact amount of power that Piccolo has to determine that he's comparable with Goku and Vegeta when the only occasion where their powers might have collided with each other is during the Battle of Gods arc? Both Piccolo and Buu were selected without any objections expressed from Beerus. He apparently must not be all too concerned with the quality of the fighters that Goku and Vegeta pick if he's allowing two people whom he made very short work of to represent his universe.

We heard very little conversation from Piccolo this chapter. The most notable input he gave was remarking about the lack of malice discerned in Frost's Ki and his fretful criticism of Buu for not spelling his name correctly. If you want to stretch it, we technically didn't hear anything negative of Buu's power this chapter either, just his intelligence. He actually gave an acknowledging smirk when Goku teased at the possibility of handling the fights all by himself, whereas Vegeta was less than indulgent. That seems to lean in favour of Piccolo being content with Goku handling all the work by himself. But considering Vegeta's previous anger and outcry when Goku was overstaying his time in fighting Freeza, I doubt he'll let Goku have all the action to himself.

I simply don't believe Piccolo could have gotten up to the same level as Goku and Vegeta, given what we know of his training consisting of trying to help Gohan become a competent fighter again (competent by arbitrary standards which may not entail being equal to the two Saiyan gods but just enough to protect against threats like Freeza in his suppressed state). If he were to train with Whis for three consecutive days, that still wouldn't put him as equal to Goku and Vegeta; not when they committed themselves to even greater sums of training under harsher conditions with transformations increasing their power to some degree.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I have talked about this before but that promotonal poster released in june keeps making more sense all the time as it has Champa holding earth and Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta big in the middle with everyone else smaller around them on the poster
Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo seem to be the main characters in this arc.
Promotional material doesn't always provide an accurate representation of the content the advertisers are trying to market. All of those intros during the Cell arc in the original Z series showing the humans posing with the Saiyans are a case in point. The first arc of Super had Gohan in a readied posture of belligerence and action next to Goku and Vegeta, yet how much fight time did he actually see and was it important? Nothing really came of it besides conveying how powerful Beerus was. His defeat at the hands of Freeza saw greater importance by reinvigorating his desire to train.
Miracles wrote:
Lionel wrote:So Piccolo is capable of matching the unfathomable realms of power that Goku and Vegeta have attained after a few days of training with Gohan? I hope not. This series has been lambasted enough for its horrid inconsistencies. Having someone other than Goku or Vegeta receive meaningful screen time is one thing that most fans can agree upon, but I don't want it to come at the expense of damaging DBZ's credibility even further.
As if Piccolo never attained power to battle the current strongest foes. That is consistent Dragon ball.
Piccolo actually has a consistent record of always coming up short in attaining power equal to that of the main adversary. During the Freeza arc he needed to fuse with Nail -- a chance occurrence that was separate from the training he just received -- to become credible enough to fight Freeza, and that was still just a suppressed form which both Goku and Vegeta quickly surpassed along with Piccolo's newly attained fused power. He kept to this inferiority going into the cyborg arc in spite of having worked personally with a Super Saiyan to increase his strength. Again, it took what Krillin described as being his personal trump card to briefly surpass the Saiyans and become strong enough to match the current threat. He never regained his footing as a comparable fighter to Goku and Vegeta again, unless you count him doing only somewhat worse than Vegeta and Trunks against the Cell Jrs during the Cell Games.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by omaro34 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:53 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:I have talked about this before but that promotonal poster released in june keeps making more sense all the time as it has Champa holding earth and Goku, Piccolo and Vegeta big in the middle with everyone else smaller around them on the poster
Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo seem to be the main characters in this arc.
Everything is speculation up to this point though. Seeing Piccolo back in action, taking off his cape and turban for once, and at least putting up a fight against his opponent is all I ask.
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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Bullza » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:31 pm

I don't think I'll be reading this anymore, I'd rather be surprised in the weeks to come. Being that the newest episode adapted practically the whole chapter...6? I don't know how the manga is going to stay in front of the anime for long if it's only 1 chapter a month.

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Re: Super's manga by Toyotarō

Post by Basaku » Sat Jan 23, 2016 8:40 pm

Bullza wrote:I don't think I'll be reading this anymore, I'd rather be surprised in the weeks to come. Being that the newest episode adapted practically the whole chapter...6? I don't know how the manga is going to stay in front of the anime for long if it's only 1 chapter a month.
Even if the adaptation will differ, it's obvious by now Toyotaro got full access to Super arc script and the manga will spoil all the biggest stuff. Deffo good moment to bail for those who want to be surprised, personally I'll keep checking the manga tho :P

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