More surviving saiyans in Super?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Super_Subzero » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:01 am

Re: female saiyan discussion.

The only way it would make any sense is if Goku decides to dump ChiChi once and for all and uses the dragonballs to revive a saiyan woman. Goku gets a new wife, Gohan and Goten get a new step-mother, Pan gets a new grandmother. But I do not want Akira Toriyama to write this hypothetical new character. We do not need another weak, gentle female saiyan.
Why does Goku have to dump Chi-Chi?
Because she is a terrible wife who doesn't understand him and doesn't respect him at all. I could write an entire essay on this subject.
Last edited by Super_Subzero on Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:04 am

Super_Subzero wrote:Re: female saiyan discussion.

The only way it would make any sense is if Goku decides to dump ChiChi once and for all and uses the dragonballs to revive a saiyan woman. Goku gets a new wife, Gohan and Goten get a new step-mother, Pan gets a new grandmother. But I do not want Akira Toriyama to write this hypothetical new character. We do not need more weak, useless female characters.
Why does Goku have to dump Chi-Chi?

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Ushabtis » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:37 am

Only saiyan coming back I'd accept is Raditz or Tarble.

as for surviving saiyans...weren't there in canon a couple 1,000 give or take of them? I mean the way they lived, even if they survived Frieza's attack on planet Vegeta, all the stragglers would have been killed off fighting something by BOG/ROF time period rolls around. plus the whole age thing, all of them would be at least in their late 30's and theres no way they'd be at the Z fighters level of strength. I bet they'd be under Krillin, Yamcha, or Tien levels of strength.
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Low Tone G » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:34 am

I think I could accept Gine to come back and support his son for something. And I'm really curious to see a female Saiyan with tail animated. :)
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:06 am

Super_Subzero wrote:Because she is a terrible wife who doesn't understand him and doesn't respect him at all.
What?! Even if that was true, Goku doesn't care about her behaviour and it would be very out of character for him to leave her. Nothing to argue about though, since it's one of those things that simply won't ever happen (fortunately).

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by soulnova » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:37 pm

Low Tone G wrote:I think I could accept Gine to come back and support his son for something. And I'm really curious to see a female Saiyan with tail animated. :)
I would cry of happiness if she showed up and Goku learned she actually was a good person who cared for him. :cry:
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Sun Wukong » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:26 am

Doctor. wrote:From Universe 7? I wouldn't like to see that at all.

From other universes though, depending on how it's executed? Why not?
I am of the same proposition mostly. The only ones from U7 that would be viable are Bardock, & Gine. While the likes of King Vegeta, Raditz, Nappa, etc. would have gone to purgatory a long time ago.
miguelnuva1 wrote:I actually wouldn't mind if we got a female saiyan if she followed these rules
-She only about as strong as Buu saga Goku
-First arc would be her trying to mate with Goku and Vegeta and the other two have to explain why they are not viable mates to her.
Technically she should be above Nappa at most around Saiyan saga Vegeta. Unless she has been extremely fortuante to have been getting rough training to make her surpass the likes of Zarbon.
To the 2nd part that would be pretty funny.

emperior wrote:Also could be a good twist if the Legendary Super Saiyan killed him and his friends, destroying the planet in the process and making Saiyans escape to Tsufuru's planets.

And the oracle wouldn't tell Beerus to fight against a dead person. The original SSG could be alive and training in the afterlife.

This Original SSG could look similar to Vegito. And he should be stronger than Whis.

WHAT IF he actually survived and became a God of Destruction of another universe? IT WOULD BE AWESOME.
1. That would be a plausible explanation.
2. "alive and training in the afterlife." hmmm... but yeah that would be okay but that still leaves a big problem. Why didn't King Kai, Grand Kai, Supreme Kai, etc. know about this before hand? And wouldn't Goku have been told this during his 7 year stay in the afterlife? Opens too many plot holes.

3. Eh I don't know about that this original SSG PL depends on a lot of things. Firstly how long ago did he die? It would have had to be over a 1000 years at least.

4. To the last point. I would rather not. Better to have some non-Saiyan character.
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:48 pm

I really hope not. They've used it so many times that it's become old. I want something new and original from Super.
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Dbzejo » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:10 pm

I really dont want more saiyans. We got enough of them stealing the show for themselves as it is.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by emperior » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:43 am

@Sun Wukong

I meant, maybe the original SSG could have kept his body in the afterlife, and been training in a secret place almost no one knows about? Or maybe he was able to travel to another universe? There are countless possibilities to put him in the story, and it would be awesome for me if we could explore its character.
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Dbzejo » Sat Jul 18, 2015 7:32 am

But its interesting that the Planet Vegeta isnt Saiyans native homeland :O So maybe there are a few of them left on their original planet!

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:47 am

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Gyt Kaliba wrote: He's not a favorite character of mine or anything, but...I seriously don't get it. What do so many people have against Table? Is it just because he's not yet another token 'Saiyan badass'? Cuz honestly, that's what makes him interesting and stands out amongst the others IMO. Vegeta's brother being pretty much exactly like him would have been too easy and expected.
I would rather, after all this time Vegeta don't having a brother at all.

Not only he's another survivor, but he's a joke too. Gohan for example is a nerd but he can fight.
Tarble was introduced a full-blooded saiyan son of the King, brother of the prince, that can't fight...
His wife is a joke too, by the way. Everything about him is boring.

Yup, he's different from the rest but this time, being different isn't a good thing.

I don't even ask for him to have the same personality that Vegeta, because I agree that would be boring and expected.
But they could made his character more interesting

Take Goku/Raditz and Gohan/Goten as example.
None of the four was useless. All of them can fight and each one is different from the other.
When did power and badassery become the sole determining factor of a character's worth? Can't speak for everyone but I find the irony of Vegeta's brother being a total whimp to be unique and amusing.
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by MaGyunia » Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:25 pm

The most likely scenario in which any other surviving Saiya-jin would appear on DBSuper (and we had a few additional ones in the movies, although non-canon ones) would be if they keep the ritual to achieve the stage of Super Saiya-jin God exactly the same as in BoG and need an additional Saiya-jin to join Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten and Trunks. In that case, as suggested by Bulma herself in BoG, they could bring Tarble to the discussion again (although he, along with the entire events of the 2008 special, may have become non-canon just the way BoG and Fukkatsu did) or have either Raditz, Nappa or Bardock revived. This is really a long shot and I think the chances of it happening are more than dim and the overall scenario is utterly far-fetched. If I had to choose, I'd love to see both Raditz and Bardock resurrected, as they belong to Goku's family and I've always wondered throughout the years how Goku would react to Raditz after all those years (he has a tendency to forgive his past enemies and would probably accept him as a member of the team and his blood-brother) and especially how the relationship between Goku and Bardock, his father, would develop. Pure Saiya-jin have a natural tendency to cease from putting a lot of importance in family and blood relationships - Raditz wants to kills his brother and his nephew, Goku helps to kill his brother, Brolly kills his father, Vegeta seems emotionally indifferent to the decease of his father, etc. -, but the fact remains Goku has never seen his father once in his entire life, and Bardock, the other way around, only saw Goku as a baby and is completely unaware of the fact that he went on to become not only a Super Saiya-jin and beat Freeza, but reached entire new stages, defeated/fought toe-to-toe with much more powerful villains/antagonists in the following years and became pretty much one of the most powerful warriors in the Universe.

If they're indeed going for a change in how the stage of Super Saiya-jin God, which is the most likely scenario (although they could also retcon BoG even further and have Pan be born at this point instead of 4 years later and have her become the additional Saiya-jin they need, exactly as seen in the movie), they can either change the number of Saiya-jin needed, change the ritual itself or have the state become a transformation that can be underwent through some other method, such an explosion of anger or intensive training.

Regarding Tarble, I've always had the theory that basically Vegeta - who is deemed a fighting genius on several occasions throughout DBZ - inherited all the good genes from his father, leaving Tarble next-to-nothing (much like in the movie Twins, in which one of the sons is mentally and physically overly gifted and the other one is a dwarf with an attitude problem). If Tarble continues to be canon, or will become canon during DBSuper, we can only conclude that Vegeta neglected even mentioning him to his fellow Saiya-jin, Goku or anybody else, for that matter, on purpose, out of indifference/shame for his disgraceful fighting abilities as a member of his family line. Tarble came to DBZ as an additional surviving Saiya-jin and Vegeta's long-lost brother in an overly fast-paced manner.

We've always been chewing on the "fact" that there were only 4 surviving Saiya-jin from the destruction of Planet Vegeta and the genocide of the race, and indeed we can exclude Paragas, Brolly and Turles, as they show up in movies, which depict, explore and expand on "what-if" scenarios and cannot be considered canon, but Tarble's introduction in 2008 came to change that fact. It's always hard to reshape your mind to change events which you went through the process of accepting as "facts" in DBZ's one and only timeline as canon. It's the same thing, to a certain degree, with having BoG and Fukkatsu no F be retold after having accepted them as canon direct continuations of the Majin Buu arc in DBZ in the 10 year gap between it and the last 3 episodes of DBZ, although we'll basically get the same events, characters and stages - Beerus, Whis, Super Saiya-jin God Goku, Golden Freeza, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Goku, Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin Vegeta - being introduced just the same although at a different timing and in different circumstances.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by soulnova » Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:03 pm

Regarding Tarble, I've always had the theory that basically Vegeta - who is deemed a fighting genius on several occasions throughout DBZ - inherited all the good genes from his father, leaving Tarble next-to-nothing
Just want to say, that's not how genetics work. Your genetic make up comes from both parents. We know so far that King Vegeta was the strongest before Prince Vegeta was born... they were the only two true Elite warriors, as Toriyama stated. Now, we know Vegeta and Tarble are also shorter than the average Saiyan, even though their father seemed to be as tall as Goku/Bardock... meaning they most likely got that trait from their mother. I mean... Tarble is almost the same height as Krillin. Holy shit. We don't know how strong she was, but I guess King Vegeta would pick a strong Queen to give him strong heirs... and yet, I have started to suspect that perhaps she secretly/unknowingly had some diluted Tsufurunjin ascendance that manifested HARD on Tarble (weak, soft/nice and freaking small). It would explain why the King would send him away. It would be scandalous among Saiyans if it came to light. For all intents and purposes, Tarble didn't exist.
Check out Journey's End, a short story of Goku and Vegeta's final days. "Time is running out for the last two Saiyans"

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by irreality » Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:49 pm

soulnova wrote:make up comes from both parents. We know so far that King Vegeta was the strongest before Prince Vegeta was born... they were the only two true Elite warriors, as Toriyama stated. Now, we know Vegeta and Tarble are also shorter than the average Saiyan, even though their father seemed to be as tall as Goku/Bardock... meaning they most likely got that trait from their mother. I mean... Tarble is almost the same height as Krillin. Holy shit. We don't know how strong she was, but I guess King Vegeta would pick a strong Queen to give him strong heirs... and yet, I have started to suspect that perhaps she secretly/unknowingly had some diluted Tsufurunjin ascendance that manifested HARD on Tarble (weak, soft/nice and freaking small). It would explain why the King would send him away. It would be scandalous among Saiyans if it came to light. For all intents and purposes, Tarble didn't exist.
Neat Theory. :) My theory was just that Vegeta was treated poorly as a kid with Freeza and didn't get fed enough by Saiyan standards and his growth was stunted (or was maybe lacking vitamins, who knows). Trunks ends up being a more normal height, after all, even though Dr. Brief isn't all that tall, either.

Tarble, being weak and abandoned in some remote planet, had an even harder time growing up. Maybe ths is too bleak for Dragon Ball.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by MaGyunia » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:54 am

irreality wrote:
soulnova wrote:make up comes from both parents. We know so far that King Vegeta was the strongest before Prince Vegeta was born... they were the only two true Elite warriors, as Toriyama stated. Now, we know Vegeta and Tarble are also shorter than the average Saiyan, even though their father seemed to be as tall as Goku/Bardock... meaning they most likely got that trait from their mother. I mean... Tarble is almost the same height as Krillin. Holy shit. We don't know how strong she was, but I guess King Vegeta would pick a strong Queen to give him strong heirs... and yet, I have started to suspect that perhaps she secretly/unknowingly had some diluted Tsufurunjin ascendance that manifested HARD on Tarble (weak, soft/nice and freaking small). It would explain why the King would send him away. It would be scandalous among Saiyans if it came to light. For all intents and purposes, Tarble didn't exist.
Neat Theory. :) My theory was just that Vegeta was treated poorly as a kid with Freeza and didn't get fed enough by Saiyan standards and his growth was stunted (or was maybe lacking vitamins, who knows). Trunks ends up being a more normal height, after all, even though Dr. Brief isn't all that tall, either.

Tarble, being weak and abandoned in some remote planet, had an even harder time growing up. Maybe ths is too bleak for Dragon Ball.
The way genetics work, you can get a short child even if (both of) their parents are tall/normal-heighted, and the other way around. We need to take into account we're talking about a fictional, Dragonball universe, which has more than one instance of presenting us with laws and events that deviate from that of the real world. However, most people tend to retain the physical characteristics not from their immediate parents, but from their grandparents, in fact, especially in terms of eye color. It could be that King Vegeta's and/or Vegeta's mother's parents were physically short, just like Vegeta is. This theory is further strengthened by the fact that also Tarble himself is extremely small, which is a rarity for the normal standards of Saiya-jin, who can't be really deemed giants but then to have at least a normal humanoid height or slightly above that average.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Absolute Ice » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:20 pm

Gine would be a fine welcome by all means, she deserves more appearances, though.
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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by TheDBZmaster100 » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:25 am

Hopefully not.

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Re: More surviving saiyans in Super?

Post by Basaku » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:28 am

So urhm... looks like Super may be excluding Tarble completly, no mention during SSG ritual compared to BOG. Granted, he didn't appear nor was mentioned in earlier episodes so it would've been quite out-of-place and confusing for many people, but 2008 special was loooong before BOG too and few saw it.

I guess considering the Frieza's remnant army connection he could still appear during the episodes in-between BOG and ROF retelling, or even during ROF retelling but if it doesn't happen by then I don't think we'll see him in Super at all.

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