Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
samuraix123
I Live Here
Posts: 3644
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:22 pm
Location: Kentucky

Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by samuraix123 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:54 pm

Hey Friends! I was just wondering if Super is Dragonball's last hope for a TV series? If GT failed and if Super fails, Would Toei want to take another chance on something else that's series related? I'm not trying to bring the hype and people's hopes down by the way, I'm just curious what everyone else's thoughts are. :)
Have a good day guys.
The Dragonboxes are like a middle aged woman who still looks good through simply taking good care of her skin and body with maybe a tiny bit of makeup while the Orange Bricks are like a middle aged woman who get's 50 tons of botox, makeup and plastic surgery in order to look younger and as a result looks even worse. ~ ringworm128
Still recording Toonami broadcasts on VHS after all these years!
#1 Paikuhan fan!

User avatar
Kendamu
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6879
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:31 am
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Kendamu » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:26 pm

I don't think it's a "last hope" as much as it is an "aha!" moment regarding what fans want with their Dragon Ball content.

In recent years, Toei's only domestic TV "failure" was Kai as it failed to move merchandise. The only reason Buu Kai got on Japanese TV was to cheaply fill the hole where the failed Toriko was.

When Toei went ahead with BoG and RF, they realized that Dragon Ball animation can move merchandise in Japan, but it would be much more likely to do so with NEW animation (which is what fans have been saying all along)! Super is less of a "last hope" and more of a "new opportunity" to cash in on the DBZ revitalization that resulted from the new movies.

User avatar
SSJ Human
Regular
Posts: 627
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:35 pm

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:09 am

Super will probably have its ups and downs like any other part of the franchise but it will stay on as long as it gets good ratings and sells merchandise.

User avatar
KameRule
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 177
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:50 pm

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by KameRule » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:43 am

If Super failed, while we may never get another series, Dragon Ball would remain the giga-franchise it is right now.
Master, the batteries inside your Wii Remote are nearly depleted.

Master, there is a 98% chance that the floor is beneath you.

User avatar
FortuneSSJ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5288
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:35 pm

- Super is the last DB TV series that Toriyama will give us. And that's why I'm so disappointed for not taking place after EOZ and we will never getting his Z sequel.
- Its probably the last TV series that Nozawa and the rest oldschool voice actors will do too.

They aren't getting younger and they won't live forever either.

It's not Dragon Ball last hope though. The series will live forever. That's obvious by this point.
In the future they can make a new TV series. Some spin off like DB Heroes or DB SD is my guess. But it won't have Toriyama and our cast. It will be new blood.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

User avatar
SingleFringe&Sparks
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1642
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:55 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu/East District

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by SingleFringe&Sparks » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:10 pm

As for a proper post-Buu continuation alternate to GT, it is. If Super is somehow worse... I cant predict the outcome.
Zephyr wrote:The fandom's collective fetishizing of "moments" is also ridiculous to me. No, not everyone needs a fucking "shine" moment. If that's all you want, then all you want is fanservice, rather than an actual coherent story. And of course those aren't mutually exclusive; you could have a coherent story with "shine" moments! But if a story is perfectly coherent (and I'm really not seeing any compelling arguments that this one is anything but, despite constantly recurring, really poorly reasoned, attempts to argue otherwise), and you're bemoaning the lack of "shine" moments as a reason for the story's poor quality, then you're letting your thirst for "shine" moments obfuscate your ability to detect basic storytelling when it's right in front of you.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20464
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:44 pm

Dragon Ball Super is not Dragon Ball's last hope. Even if Super flops, 5-10 years down the line, Toei will try again with another anime. Because they know that anything with Dragon Ball on it, or associated with it, will sell.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:16 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Dragon Ball Super is not Dragon Ball's last hope. Even if Super flops, 5-10 years down the line, Toei will try again with another anime. Because they know that anything with Dragon Ball on it, or associated with it, will sell.
But if it flops, doesn't that mean that DB actually doesn't sell? After GT's failure, it took them 18 years to make a new anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20464
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:05 pm

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:Dragon Ball Super is not Dragon Ball's last hope. Even if Super flops, 5-10 years down the line, Toei will try again with another anime. Because they know that anything with Dragon Ball on it, or associated with it, will sell.
But if it flops, doesn't that mean that DB actually doesn't sell? After GT's failure, it took them 18 years to make a new anime.
But it didn't stop them from making Battle Of Gods from practically out of nowhere or Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters for the international market. I know Kai technically isn't a new anime, but it was still something Toei produced with money out their own pocket because they knew modern Dragon Ball fans were interested in more Dragon Ball.

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:36 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:But it didn't stop them from making Battle Of Gods from practically out of nowhere or Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters for the international market. I know Kai technically isn't a new anime, but it was still something Toei produced with money out their own pocket because they knew modern Dragon Ball fans were interested in more Dragon Ball.
But BoG & Kai didn't happen right after GT's failure. After GT in 1997, the franchise died in Japan, and it was revived in starting in 2002 through video-games, home releases of the anime, and the Kanzenban manga, because of DBZ's success in US (if I'm correct). It wouldn't be until 2008 that we would get a new animated feature, and in 2009, we got the refreshed version of DBZ, Dragon Ball Kai. And then, after Kai failed in Japan & got canceled, and after the success of Dragon Ball Heroes, we finally got a new theatrical movie 17 years after the last one in 2013, DBZ: Battle of Gods, which turned out to be a success, and Kai returned on Japan in 2014 after Toriko's failure, which was supposed to be released only internationally, since even though it failed in Japan, it was a success internationally. And now, after the next, also successful, movie in 2015, DBZ: Resurrection "F", we are finally getting a new series, Dragon Ball Super.

So, not everything with Dragon Ball sells, and it's not that easy for them to decide to make a new anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15035
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Chuquita » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:12 pm

Well, whatever it is, we won't soon forget it since it'll probably be making reappearances in future Dragon Ball videogames for years to come, just as GT has (and BOG and F).
My deviantart * My tumblr * My twitter
---
フレフレ みんあ! フレフレ 私!

User avatar
Araki
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1453
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:54 am

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Araki » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:44 am

Lol "Last Hope". That's one funny way to call a renaissence.

Dragonball reached a cultural status where it will never go away. Kinda like Lupin, for a comparison, only bigger.
It needs to take breaks eventually, like all things do, but it will come back, always.

Hell, Saint Seiya is a fairly smaller franchise, collects flops after flops in Japan and Toei keeps bringing it back.
Kendamu wrote:I don't think it's a "last hope" as much as it is an "aha!" moment regarding what fans want with their Dragon Ball content.

In recent years, Toei's only domestic TV "failure" was Kai as it failed to move merchandise. The only reason Buu Kai got on Japanese TV was to cheaply fill the hole where the failed Toriko was.

When Toei went ahead with BoG and RF, they realized that Dragon Ball animation can move merchandise in Japan, but it would be much more likely to do so with NEW animation (which is what fans have been saying all along)! Super is less of a "last hope" and more of a "new opportunity" to cash in on the DBZ revitalization that resulted from the new movies.
Yeah, although i think Kai's comeback wasn't only because they had an empty timeslot, BoG's success played a huge part.

And i still say it's harsh to call Kai a failure in Japan, as it always had very high ratings. It just didn't help to make a difference moving merchandise, but...i think it wasn't smart to expect a rehashed product would achieve that. A sales boost required new characters, new transformations, new stories, and the new movies did that. Super will more than likely do, too, not to mention the ratings will be almost definitely higher than Kai (i'm curious to see how it performs).

User avatar
Kendamu
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6879
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:31 am
Location: Orange County, CA
Contact:

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Kendamu » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:20 am

From what I gather, moving product off the shelves and into homes seems to be the BIG thing determining the success of a show like Kai in Japan. I don't think sales dropped or anything, but the investment just wasn't bringing in a larger profit, so there was no reason to continue it in Japan (at the time).

I guess "failure" can be a harsh term, but I can't think of a better way of putting it.

User avatar
Low Tone G
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1706
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:34 am

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Low Tone G » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:23 am

I'd say that Super IS the last hope for me to not loose faith in Dragon Ball.
English is not my first language!
I'm still waiting for Dragon Ball in Super...

User avatar
Ushabtis
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon May 25, 2015 9:23 pm

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Ushabtis » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:51 am

Well imo Super is kinda a last hope for me. If its just the same rehashed plots that we've seen a million times, I'll be pretty bored with the series. Will i ever drop the series altogether, no, but to be hyped for/when new content is made in the future? probably not.
Jaco the Super Elite with The Great Saiyaman fighting crime for a spin-off series. Make it happen Toriyama

User avatar
Basaku
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Planet of the Apes

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Basaku » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:52 pm

Nah. But thy just wasted the current "comeback". Gonna have to wait for another decade at least to score headlines on every website in the world about new series, not just geek/anime portals

User avatar
SpiritBombTriumphant
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 355
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2015 10:07 pm

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:54 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:- Super is the last DB TV series that Toriyama will give us. And that's why I'm so disappointed for not taking place after EOZ and we will never getting his Z sequel.
- Its probably the last TV series that Nozawa and the rest oldschool voice actors will do too.

They aren't getting younger and they won't live forever either.
I read that Super is confirmed to have 100 episodes. I highly doubt that everything is going to take place before the end of Z. As for whether or not this is the last hope for Dragon Ball in general, I doubt it. They can always reanimate the original series and Z and I am sure that they will get people interested. I would love it if they would do that. All they would need to do is make a Kai version of Dragon Ball and use the scripts for Kai 1.0 and reanimate it. I wouldn't even mind if they copied the voice tracks for Nozawa and the others in case that (God forbid) they have died by the time this happens (if it ever does).

As other users have pointed out, this is a franchise that will never die. Toei can always bring it back every fifteen years or so and get people interested. They just need someone in charge who learns more quickly that new animation is what we want--not rehashes of sub-par animation from the late 80s and early 90s.
alakazam^ wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:24 pm
Shiyonasan wrote:Just when you thought there couldn't be anymore Yamamoto rip offs...
At this point, I think it's safe to say everything he did was plagiarized. Basically, if you hear a tune that sounds like it could have vocals, then it most likely did.

User avatar
Dbzejo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:21 am

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Dbzejo » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:19 pm

No its not. Dragon Ball will never die,lol.

User avatar
Marco Polo
I Live Here
Posts: 2933
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: France

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Marco Polo » Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:46 pm

If Dragon Ball Super fails, Toei will unleash their final weapon...

Image

Dragon Ball: Episode of Bardock 2 :twisted:

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20464
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: Is Super Dragonball's last hope?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:09 pm

Marco Polo wrote:If Dragon Ball Super fails, Toei will unleash their final weapon...

Image

Dragon Ball: Episode of Bardock 2 :twisted:
Dragon Ball Heroes has already done that. :wink:

Post Reply