Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

It is pathetic that Vegeta achieved SSGSS through training, I'll take BoG/RoF movies over the stupid DBS explanation, for me it's more plausible that Vegeta become a SSJG by the ritual and then trained with Whis

BoG and F explained absolutely nothing.

[ekrolo2]

The problem I have with Vegeta just training this hard is that he's suddenly tapping into power he never had before at the moment of his rage out and its persisted until now. Why is he only now getting access to it? Where was it before, why didn't it manifest during the seven years he spent training? And why is training with Whis giving him access to God powers?

[Doctor.]

The problem I have with Vegeta just training this hard is that he's suddenly tapping into power he never had before at the moment of his rage out and its persisted until now. Why is he only now getting access to it? Where was it before, why didn't it manifest during the seven years he spent training? And why is training with Whis giving him access to God powers?

He doesn't have God powers. He can sense them, he doesn't have them. Neither does Goku. Super Saiyan Blue is probably the way both of them can manifest it.

I buy it because it's Whis training him, the one who trained Beerus, so it's believable. My only issue, kinda, is the timeframe, but I can buy it even so.

[GodVegetto91]

I think Whis has explained his method. They had to control their ki in a way it doesn't burst out, so that they can't be sensed even when powered-up, like the Gods do. Vegeta must have praticed that while doing his usual stuff, lifting tons, walking with tons in his arms.. not to mention surviving Beerus for six months.

If you think about it, Whis can restore him as new, that should provide a good amount of near-death power-ups. Remember the oracle fish describing Whis training as nearly suicide without Super Saiyan.

Your theory doesn't make any sense at all. it's a very easy technique that can be learned by ANYONE. you don't have to be a god for it.(Goku and Vegeta learned it in an instant) and the reason Goku and Vegeta had never done it before was because it never crossed their minds to for some reason. also both God Goku and Beerus had visible aura's. learning to control your ki that way only gives you the advantage to surprise your opponent later on.(since he couldn't sense you increased your attacks)
that's all. the only benefit. it doesn't give you any god power at all. it's just raising your ki inside your body. so your opponent won't sense it.

[ekrolo2]

The problem I have with Vegeta just training this hard is that he's suddenly tapping into power he never had before at the moment of his rage out and its persisted until now. Why is he only now getting access to it? Where was it before, why didn't it manifest during the seven years he spent training? And why is training with Whis giving him access to God powers?

He doesn't have God powers. He can sense them, he doesn't have them. Neither does Goku. Super Saiyan Blue is probably the way both of them can manifest it.

I buy it because it's Whis training him, the one who trained Beerus, so it's believable. My only issue, kinda, is the timeframe, but I can buy it even so.

Goku clearly does if Beerus himself stated that Red Gods power is still burning inside of him, Vegeta shouldn't be getting SSB if he doesn't have God powers since its literally a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan implying you have to have something like God powers to use it.

[Doctor.]

Goku clearly does if Beerus himself stated that Red Gods power is still burning inside of him, Vegeta shouldn't be getting SSB if he doesn't have God powers since its literally a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan implying you have to have something like God powers to use it.

I just think that implies that Goku absorbed the power boost. He may have absorbed the God powers too, but maybe he can only use it through Super Saiyan Blue. Everyone could sense SS Goku and Goku couldn't sense Gods, so evidently he couldn't use his God power before training.

I don't know, Godly Ki is a massive plot hole in itself.

[ekrolo2]

Goku clearly does if Beerus himself stated that Red Gods power is still burning inside of him, Vegeta shouldn't be getting SSB if he doesn't have God powers since its literally a Super Saiyan God going Super Saiyan implying you have to have something like God powers to use it.

I just think that implies that Goku absorbed the power boost. He may have absorbed the God powers too, but maybe he can only use it through Super Saiyan Blue. Everyone could sense SS Goku and Goku couldn't sense Gods, so evidently he couldn't use his God power before training.

I don't know, Godly Ki is a massive plot hole in itself.

Exactly, which is why Vegeta shouldn't be getting SSB since he has no God power for that to even come from. He should've gotten something else entirely or just been a really strong, regular SSJ or SSJ2. Freeza already made a precedent for regular people attaining God level power after all.

[Doctor.]

Exactly, which is why Vegeta shouldn't be getting SSB since he has no God power for that to even come from. He should've gotten something else entirely or just been a really strong, regular SSJ or SSJ2. Freeza already made a precedent for regular people attaining God level power after all.

But Vegeta probably got Godly Ki through his training. That whole "don't let your power leak" nonsense, maybe that's turning Vegeta's normal Ki into Godly Ki? Anyway yeah, it's pretty confusing why Vegeta specifically got Super Saiyan Blue.

[ekrolo2]

Exactly, which is why Vegeta shouldn't be getting SSB since he has no God power for that to even come from. He should've gotten something else entirely or just been a really strong, regular SSJ or SSJ2. Freeza already made a precedent for regular people attaining God level power after all.

But Vegeta probably got Godly Ki through his training. That whole "don't let your power leak" nonsense, maybe that's turning Vegeta's normal Ki into Godly Ki? Anyway yeah, it's pretty confusing why Vegeta specifically got Super Saiyan Blue.

I don't really like that explanation, why would you keeping your flashy aura inside your body magically convert it into a completely different type of energy? Especially since the Cell Games portion is all about Super Saiyan's bringing their power levels to a state of normalcy.

[Doctor.]

I don't really like that explanation, why would you keeping your flashy aura inside your body magically convert it into a completely different type of energy? Especially since the Cell Games portion is all about Super Saiyan's bringing their power to levels to a state of normalcy.

Not to mention that Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku were flashing their auras like fucking maniacs.

I hope we get a better explanation in Super for what Blue is than the one in F.

[ekrolo2]

I don't really like that explanation, why would you keeping your flashy aura inside your body magically convert it into a completely different type of energy? Especially since the Cell Games portion is all about Super Saiyan's bringing their power to levels to a state of normalcy.

Not to mention that Beerus and Super Saiyan God Goku were flashing their auras like fucking maniacs.

I hope we get a better explanation in Super for what Blue is than the one in F.

Fs explanation seems brilliant by comparison. What is SSGSS? The Super Saiyan form to a Super Saiyan God. Now its this weird thing that doesn't need God power but its still called SSGSS and can be unlocked by magically keeping your aura in-check. Except if you're Beerus or Goku in the BoG arc, then you can be a God and make ki dragons to your hearts content.

If the show wanted to set this ki leaking thing up, Goku is the one who should've been needlessly burning energy and making big, pointless spectacle shows out of his aura and have Beerus be the one who never raises his for anything.

[dbzfan7]

The thing about Vegeta pulling a Freeza, I realized actually coulda worked even better with Whis since he has the ROSAT in his staff thing. Then we find out about it later, and never being used for Vegeta. Ah well.

[Pannaliciour]

The problem I have with Vegeta just training this hard is that he's suddenly tapping into power he never had before at the moment of his rage out and its persisted until now. Why is he only now getting access to it? Where was it before, why didn't it manifest during the seven years he spent training? And why is training with Whis giving him access to God powers?

He doesn't have God powers. He can sense them, he doesn't have them. Neither does Goku. Super Saiyan Blue is probably the way both of them can manifest it.

I buy it because it's Whis training him, the one who trained Beerus, so it's believable. My only issue, kinda, is the timeframe, but I can buy it even so.

I think Vegeta himself said that he is a God in Rof, in the fight against Freeza.

[ekrolo2]

The problem I have with Vegeta just training this hard is that he's suddenly tapping into power he never had before at the moment of his rage out and its persisted until now. Why is he only now getting access to it? Where was it before, why didn't it manifest during the seven years he spent training? And why is training with Whis giving him access to God powers?

He doesn't have God powers. He can sense them, he doesn't have them. Neither does Goku. Super Saiyan Blue is probably the way both of them can manifest it.

I buy it because it's Whis training him, the one who trained Beerus, so it's believable. My only issue, kinda, is the timeframe, but I can buy it even so.

I think Vegeta himself said that he is a God in Rof, in the fight against Freeza.

He only says that in the dub, in the JPN version he only refers to himself as the Legendary Super Saiyan upon transforming.

[LightBing]

I have a theory that Whis special training, is the slow way of getting Old Kai's power up. The idea is almost the same, "the correct way" is highlighted by both Whis and Old Kai (both are also Gods). Vegeta started the training and quickly got access to his Mutated SSJ2 power. He didn't needed to train to gain it, just to pulled it out in base. Afterwards, he had fast gains steadily getting slower was he was reaching SSJG level. I think by the end of the first month Vegeta already was a 3.

Whis training is a parallel to mastering SSJ in the Cell Arc. Goku had huge gains - at least x10 - in less than a year. By doing something that doesn't seem innovative, and was right in front of them the whole time. Instead it's base that's mastered, with some special ki training to bring out the potential in base and not in SSJ transformations.

[ekrolo2]

I have a theory that Whis special training, is the slow way of getting Old Kai's power up. The idea is almost the same, "the correct way" is highlighted by both Whis and Old Kai (both are also Gods). Vegeta started the training and quickly got access to his Mutated SSJ2 power. He didn't needed to train to gain it, just to pulled it out in base. Afterwards, he had fast gains steadily getting slower was he was reaching SSJG level. I think by the end of the first month Vegeta already was a 3.

Whis training is a parallel to mastering SSJ in the Cell Arc. Goku had huge gains - at least x10 - in less than a year. By doing something that doesn't seem innovative, and was right in front of them the whole time. Instead it's base that's mastered, with some special ki training to bring out the potential in base and not in SSJ transformations.

Its not a bad idea really, but that still leaves two problems, why is it letting him gain access to a form of Super Saiyan you can only get by becming an SSG beforehand instead of making him a really strong, regular SSJ or SSJ2. And why is his mutated SSJ2 even a thing now, what did he do to trigger it?

[GodVegetto91]

It's finally confirmed!!
SSGSS has Godly Ki!
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7785968640

[ekrolo2]

It's finally confirmed!!
SSGSS has Godly Ki!
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7785968640

When was this ever in question?

[GodVegetto91]

It's finally confirmed!!
SSGSS has Godly Ki!
https://mobile.twitter.com/Herms98/stat ... 7785968640

When was this ever in question?

No it wasn't. Not to me at least! I think everyone of us had suspected all along. But it just wasn't confirmed. And that's why those people over on facebook started coming up with their stupid theories that SSGSS only had 10% God ki and 90% ssj ki.. Which is just downright idiotic imo.

[LightBing]

I have a theory that Whis special training, is the slow way of getting Old Kai's power up. The idea is almost the same, "the correct way" is highlighted by both Whis and Old Kai (both are also Gods). Vegeta started the training and quickly got access to his Mutated SSJ2 power. He didn't needed to train to gain it, just to pulled it out in base. Afterwards, he had fast gains steadily getting slower was he was reaching SSJG level. I think by the end of the first month Vegeta already was a 3.

Whis training is a parallel to mastering SSJ in the Cell Arc. Goku had huge gains - at least x10 - in less than a year. By doing something that doesn't seem innovative, and was right in front of them the whole time. Instead it's base that's mastered, with some special ki training to bring out the potential in base and not in SSJ transformations.

Its not a bad idea really, but that still leaves two problems, why is it letting him gain access to a form of Super Saiyan you can only get by becming an SSG beforehand instead of making him a really strong, regular SSJ or SSJ2. And why is his mutated SSJ2 even a thing now, what did he do to trigger it?

Nowhere is it said you can only become SSB, after getting SSJG. SSB appears to simply be a regular SSJ, infused with God Ki. During training, Whis told the Oracle Fish, how Goku and Vegeta just reached a level where they can feel the ki of the Gods. It's fair to assume, the requirement for God ki is only a reaching a certain level of power, combined with some of that ki control.
The power gain being small in comparison with the regular SSJ, is that Base already holds most of the potential power. However, there will always some that can only be accessed by going SSJ/SSB.
Why the infusion with God Ki? I don't know. Maybe it has advantages that haven't yet been stated.

Regarding Mutated SSJ2, it's not that different from SSJ3. A powerful form with big drawbacks. In this case it only functions as a burst. Vegeta triggered it that instant by rage.