Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:02 am

Bullza wrote:Thinking more about it now I think perhaps the difference between Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan Blue has something to do with this whole thing about powering up their Ki without letting it leak out because the first time they did that was when the SSJB tease happened.

Is the difference just that Super Saiyan Gold is them turning SSJ when letting their Ki leak out and Super Saiyan Blue is them turning SSJ without letting their Ki leak out. Thus they're keeping more power without it going to waste and that's why SSJB is stronger. And by not letting their Ki leak out is that also why Krillin, Gohan and the others couldn't sense Goku once he turned into a SSJB.
I think that's precisely the case, like SSGSS uses 100% of ki within body, while SS uses 50% and the other 50% are wasted.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:The only reason why Goku transformed is to force Frost to transform into his Final Form.So Goku used his regular SSj which doesn't have any strain which the Blue form likely have.In this tournament,you need to save your energy as much as you can.
Why would the blue form put more strain on the body?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:32 pm

No. He can sense god ki in any form, but he only gains god ki when he uses his SSJB form.
Beerus said that he'd absorbed the power of a God into himself so that it was his to keep, that was supposed to why he was so much more powerful in base and SSJ form even after SSJG disappeared.

So it should be something he has permanently and why he can sense God Ki even in base form.
Once he transforms everybody states that they can no longer sense Goku's ki. So he has normal ki in all of his other forms.
But does that have something to do with him building up his Ki without letting it leak out so they have nothing to sense instead.

Either way him powering up that specific way without leaking his Ki is a vital part of him being able to become a SSJB.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Birusu16 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:11 pm

Bullza wrote:Beerus said that he'd absorbed the power of a God into himself so that it was his to keep, that was supposed to why he was so much more powerful in base and SSJ form even after SSJG disappeared.

So it should be something he has permanently and why he can sense God Ki even in base form.
Which simply means he kept that power. That doesn't mean he kept the god ki. He didn't. Once he reverted to SSJ it was specifically stated that his ki could be sensed. That wasn't the case when he was a SSJG. As I've said before, he can sense god ki, but he himself doesn't have it unless he's using his SSJB form as that's the only form of his where his ki can't be sensed by people who aren't gods.
But does that have something to do with him building up his Ki without letting it leak out so they have nothing to sense instead.

Either way him powering up that specific way without leaking his Ki is a vital part of him being able to become a SSJB.
I don't know. All I do know is that he doesn't have god ki in any form aside from his SSJB form.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LowRyder2005 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:40 pm

Honestly, all the interpretations about how Super Saiyan is supposed to work now compared to Super Saiyan Blue/ Saiyan Beyond God/ Battle of Gods Super Saiyan and especially the whole 7:10:15 ratio have some kinda holes comparatively to the ki-sensing stuff we have been shown in Battle of Gods and revival of F. Best to drop it until the arc is over, lest incur in some gratuitous headaches.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:19 pm

So how does Goku or Vegeta utilising their God Ki actually benefit them in battle?

If Goku is as strong as a SSJG without Godly Ki because he'd absorbed the power and SSJB is Goku turning into a Super Saiyan while not letting his Ki leak out. Then what's the point of Godly Ki?

Aside from him not being able to be sensed what else does it actually do for him?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:45 pm

Bullza wrote:So how does Goku or Vegeta utilising their God Ki actually benefit them in battle?

If Goku is as strong as a SSJG without Godly Ki because he'd absorbed the power and SSJB is Goku turning into a Super Saiyan while not letting his Ki leak out. Then what's the point of Godly Ki?

Aside from him not being able to be sensed what else does it actually do for him?
It's a better source of power. A simple concept that's been made more complicated than it needed to be. The movies treat it right by simply having it replace Goku & Vegeta's regular power by making God Ki the default one for everything. The shows gone out of its way to try and expand it, creating unnecessary issues where none existed before.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by fexus » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:27 pm

Does the blue SSG has the same power as the red SSG? Just rewatched Super and the movie and I see that Red has super healing and kind of nullifies energy attack. SO does SSGSS has the same ability?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:57 pm

Well he didn't heal from the hole blasted through by Sorbet, in fact it just threw him out of the form entirely.

I suppose he could still have the energy nullifying ability but he never got the chance to use it. I'd bet that will be completely forgotten though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Neon Z » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:06 pm

Weren't those abilities from King Ryo's episodes? I guess there's a higher chance of them reappearing now since he's the main writer.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:59 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
Bullza wrote:So how does Goku or Vegeta utilising their God Ki actually benefit them in battle?

If Goku is as strong as a SSJG without Godly Ki because he'd absorbed the power and SSJB is Goku turning into a Super Saiyan while not letting his Ki leak out. Then what's the point of Godly Ki?

Aside from him not being able to be sensed what else does it actually do for him?
It's a better source of power. A simple concept that's been made more complicated than it needed to be. The movies treat it right by simply having it replace Goku & Vegeta's regular power by making God Ki the default one for everything. The shows gone out of its way to try and expand it, creating unnecessary issues where none existed before.
and what makes it a better source of power?
If movies (RoF) are to be followed, it is WORSE source of power. If not, even then, it is no better from what has been shown so far.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:26 pm

The new episode gives us quite a bit to discuss.

Botamo seemed a lot more resistant to Goku's attacks compared to the manga. He just took the Kamehameha instead of avoiding it. Makes me wonder how he could be beaten outside of tournament rules.

Frost in his third form looked to be on par on stronger than Goku in base form. He looks to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form possibly.

Goku went Super Saiyan and then at first seemed to easily have the upperhand over Frost in his final form which to me says there is a huge difference between Goku's base form and Super Saiyan form. If Goku was supposed to be as strong as SSJG as a SSJ then this is more evidence I'd say of his base form being weaker than SSJG.

Frost wins though I have no idea what happened.

Piccolo seems to be able to put up a good fight against Frost in his final form which suggests that he's possibly inbetween Goku's base and Super Saiyan form.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:14 pm

Current tier list. Note some placements don't change til they do something to warrant a change. So Gohan despite shaping up must remain where he is, til he fully earns a better spot.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Sandubadear » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:51 pm

Bullza wrote:Botamo seemed a lot more resistant to Goku's attacks compared to the manga. He just took the Kamehameha instead of avoiding it. Makes me wonder how he could be beaten outside of tournament rules.
He didn't jump away from the Kamehameha in the manga, it was the impact that threw him (Kuririn says "Is this it?", implying it would hurt a normal person).
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:57 pm

Even if Frost isn't at 100%, the fact that he didn't one shot Piccolo makes me think he (And by extension Gohan) received a big power boost after those 8 months.

Until they bother to explain it I will take SSJ as equal to SSB.

My current take on things is something like this:

Goku [SSJ/SSB]: 8,500
Freeza [Golden form]: 8,000
Piccolo [Makankosappo]: 3,250
Frost [Final form]: 3,000
Piccolo: 1,000
Frost [Third form]: 900
Goku: 850
Freeza [Final form]: 700
Frost: 300
Botamo: 85

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:10 pm

Piccolo must have been boosted up a ton.

In Resurrection F he, Gohan and the others were supposed to be no match at all for Frieza in his first form and now here he is looking like he's possibly giving trouble to Frost in his final form who seems to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form.

Such a boost just reeks of bullshit though, he's going to get to God tier just by sparring with Gohan for a few months?

Vegeta didn't get that strong training for a longer period of time with people vastly more powerful.

I'd hope there would be more to it than him just sparring with Gohan but I doubt it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:12 pm

Wait why ya guys think piccolo got a boost cause even the preview frost is kicking his ass.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Khin » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:15 pm

Bullza wrote:Piccolo must have been boosted up a ton.

In Resurrection F he, Gohan and the others were supposed to be no match at all for Frieza in his first form and now here he is looking like he's possibly giving trouble to Frost in his final form who seems to be more powerful than Frieza in his final form.

Such a boost just reeks of bullshit though, he's going to get to God tier just by sparring with Gohan for a few months?

Vegeta didn't get that strong training for a longer period of time with people vastly more powerful.

I'd hope there would be more to it than him just sparring with Gohan but I doubt it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:27 pm

Yeah with Goku and Frieza they gave a good reason as to why they got so much more powerful but Piccolo could follow more the route of Tagoma.

Then again at least with Tagoma because you don't really know for sure you could assume that he receives zenkais like the Saiyans.

With Piccolo it really wouldn't make any sense for him to grow so strong just like that so hopefully there's more to it than "I trained with Gohan for a few months".
Wait why ya guys think piccolo got a boost cause even the preview frost is kicking his ass.
Well you see him get hit by Frost for one thing and him still continue fighting. Considering the vastly weaker Frieza in his first form laid Gohan out with a single punch then he'd have to be.

Plus he's clearly dodging attacks and Frost is dodging his.

Frost in his first form should have been able to almost kill Piccolo from the Resurrection F arc with a single blow.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Khin » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:41 pm

The new trend in Super is that if you trained with someone way stronger than you (Tagoma and Freeza,Whis and Vegeta etc.) you will get a massive boost.Base Gohan is already way stronger than Piccolo let alone when he regained his Ultimate state.This also happened in DBZ (Goku and Piccolo in Android Arc).But the Namekian Book of Legends powerup is still a possibility.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:06 pm

Botamo and Frost seem pretty weak. Since I don't know what's the deal with SSJ Goku, it's hard to make conclusions. This is, at the moment, really hard to guess. I hope they give us some power scaling lines.
For now I have Botamo weaker than SSJ2 tier, 1st form Frost between SSJ2 and SSJ3 tier and Assault Form Frost at SSJ3 tier.
Final Form Frost appears to be a huge boost, still I didn't see Goku take any damage. It's likely he didn't need to go SSJ to face Final Form Frost.

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