Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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LowRyder2005
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LowRyder2005 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 12:30 am

Can't be. 1st form Freeza was strong enough to easily beat up SS Gohan and Piccolo, his power level was already in the billions. 1.3 million can't really work.
True enough, I was actually putting the proportions aside for that one but you would likely end up with something like Freeza in the half billion range (still too little).
What I meant was: regardless of Freeza's base and the percentages behind his absorptions, what if his total BP in his Final Form are in the low billions range - since he thought of 1,300,000 in First Form as quite a big improvement? I think that if we follow the logic of the "Fourth Form Freeza is not that strong" we may have to give some more credit to his statements concerning those power level shenanigans.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:40 am

A power tier list with full explanation:
  • 1. SS goten/trunks , Cell Jrs (strong enough to trouble buu arc vegeta, then go in rosat)
  • 2. BoG / RoF piccolo (well above SS trunks) , Base gohan RoF (implied to be around piccolo)
    CG goku , buu arc SS gohan (lot weaker than kid gohan)
  • 3. SS Majin vegeta , SS buu arc goku , Tagoma (stomped base gohan & piccolo) , FP Perfect cell
  • 4. Buu arc SS2 gohan , buff form PC (stronger than PC) , Ginyu tagoma (powered up fully)
  • 5. Kid gohan , Majin vegeta , SS2 goku
  • 6. SS gohan (Minimum possible level) , Fat buu
  • 7. SS gotenks (post / RoF) , SS3 goku (buu) , Kid buu
  • 8. First form freeza RoF (Gotenks was said to be unable to handle him) , Super buu , SS3 gotenks
  • 9. Mystic gohan (gohan implied that if he didn't slack-off, he'd do better) , Buff buu , 2nd form Freeza
    First form frost.
  • 10. Buutenks , Buuhan , 3rd form freeza , Piccolo (U 6)
  • 11. 4th Form freeza , Base goku / vegeta , 3rd form frost
  • 12. Super vegetto , Final form frost
  • 13. SS2 vegetto , Suppressed beerus
  • 14. SS goku (U6) , SS3 vegetto
  • 15. SSG , SS goku (BoG)
  • 16. SSB goku/vegeta (RoF)
  • 17. Golden freeza
  • 18.
  • 19. Beerus
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LowRyder2005
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LowRyder2005 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:00 am

apex_pretador wrote: Gotenks was said to be unable to handle First Form Freeza
Isn't it when Bulma says that, though? Gotenks' account is still that he can take Freeza head-on without breaking a sweat, he immediately answers that the enemies are no match for Super Gotenks.
Of course, one can't read ki and probably thinks Goten and Trunks should automatically be weaker than Gohan even when fused (notice that instead of "Gotenks" she addresses them separately: "Goten and Trunks? What are you doing here? This isn't an enemy you can handle"), while the other is a cocky brat who would dash at the enemy before thinking.

The entire exchange about Bulma and Gotenks is not really reliable to prove First Form Freeza > Gotenks. Bulma is evidently thinking that the battlefield is no place for a child/his son and nothing more.
The only thing worth of mention, if anything, is that Roshi compliments Gotenks' attack on Tagoma.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:03 am

LowRyder2005 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote: Gotenks was said to be unable to handle First Form Freeza
Isn't it when Bulma says that, though? Gotenks' account is still that he can take Freeza head-on, he immediately answers saying that the enemies are no match for Super Gotenks.
Of course, one can't read ki and probably thinks Goten and Trunks should automatically be weaker than Gohan even when fused (notice that instead of "Gotenks" she addresses them separately: "Goten and Trunks? What are you doing here? This isn't an enemy you can handle"), while the other is a cocky brat who would dash at the enemy before thinking.

The entire exchange about Bulma and Gotenks is not really reliable to prove First Form Freeza > Gotenks. Bulma is evidently thinking that the battlefield is no place for a child/his son and nothing more.
The only thing worth of mention, if anything, is that Roshi compliments Gotenks' attack on Tagoma.
Gohan & piccolo don't seem to be relieved after seeing gotenks. If gotenks was strong enough to handle first form freeza, they'd be relaxed & show signs of relief.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LowRyder2005 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:17 am

apex_pretador wrote:
LowRyder2005 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote: Gotenks was said to be unable to handle First Form Freeza
Isn't it when Bulma says that, though? Gotenks' account is still that he can take Freeza head-on, he immediately answers saying that the enemies are no match for Super Gotenks.
Of course, one can't read ki and probably thinks Goten and Trunks should automatically be weaker than Gohan even when fused (notice that instead of "Gotenks" she addresses them separately: "Goten and Trunks? What are you doing here? This isn't an enemy you can handle"), while the other is a cocky brat who would dash at the enemy before thinking.

The entire exchange about Bulma and Gotenks is not really reliable to prove First Form Freeza > Gotenks. Bulma is evidently thinking that the battlefield is no place for a child/his son and nothing more.
The only thing worth of mention, if anything, is that Roshi compliments Gotenks' attack on Tagoma.
Gohan & piccolo don't seem to be relieved after seeing gotenks. If gotenks was strong enough to handle first form freeza, they'd be relaxed & show signs of relief.
Even if we wanted to concede on that point, they'd be perfectly aware that Freeza can transform further; therefore, Super Saiyan Gotenks could be stronger than First Form Freeza but weaker in their eyes than Freeza's Final Form, for one.

Anyway, I just re-watched the thirty seconds in question and the characters have barely the time to understand what's going on: plus, the only time the camera pans back to Gohan, Piccolo and co. is in a split-second shot when everyone is shown to be stunned in disbelief at the whole, surreal, situation of Gotenks suddenly appearing, headbutting Tagoma in the groin and knocking him out; after, we have a few seconds of Gotenks' banter with Bulma and Freeza and then he defuses... before anyone has the time to comment.
We're talking about a sequence which - again - is barely a minute in lenght, anyway.

Realistically, Gotenks is featless against any form of ROF Freeza and it won't change because of Bulma wanting to protect two children. We would have needed Gohan's or Piccolo's account on the Super Saiyan Gotenks vs. Freeza which never happened, to have what I'd call a reliable source. If anything, the next reliable source other than the Z-fighters who are witnessing the battle is not Bulma, but Gotenks himself (and that is saying something) and he thinks he can take out Freeza no prob. In short, if you wanted to give any weight to that scene - and I wouldn't, anyway (Bulma can't sense ki, Gotenks is infamous for overestimating himself: so I see them both as unreliable)-, you'd actually end up having Super Saiyan Gotenks stronger than First Form Freeza because of the simple fact he can read ki while Bulma cannot.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:50 am

Why are people trying to put Battle of Gods, Resurrection of F and Champa arc into one.
You have to use the latest arc and then change it as the Champa arc goes on. Anything to do with Piccolo in the Resurrection of F arc is irrelevant now as we are now seeing him in the Present and it is obvious he has got a lot stronger and can easily compete with Frost You can though use Resurrection of F for Gohan as in the Champa arc he has done a little training but has not shown it off so his power should be Resurrerection of F + some, whereas Piccolo's power is huge compared to Resurrection of F.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ShinTenshin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:43 am

This is how i see the tournament NOW :

Beerus 10
Champa 9,9
Hit 9,8
Monaka 9,5
SS BLUE 9
Goku/Vegeta SS 4,5
Magetta 2,5
Frost final form 0,95
Frost Exhausted 0,65
Frost Assault form 0,60
Goku/Vegeta base 0,5
Buu 0,45
Frost Base 0,10
Piccolo 0,10
Last edited by ShinTenshin on Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:02 am

ShinTenshin wrote:This is how i see the tournament NOW :

Beerus 10
Champa 9,9
Hit 9,8
Monaka 9,5
SS BLUE 9
Goku/Vegeta SS 4,5
Magetta 2,5
Frost final form 0,95
Frost Exhausted 0,65
Frost Assault form 0,60
Goku/Vegeta base 0,5
Buu 0,45
Frost Base 0,20
Piccolo 0,10
Buu can't be that close to base saiyans.
It'd mean final form freeza is not even stronger than weakest version of buu.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ShinTenshin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:09 am

We don't know if Buu is today the same, after all everybody got a power up.
So why buu can't be stronger ?
If not maybe 0,25-0,30.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:52 am

ShinTenshin wrote:We don't know if Buu is today the same, after all everybody got a power up.
So why buu can't be stronger ?
If not maybe 0,25-0,30.
Because buu is never shown to become stronger, nor does he train.

Buu becomes stronger by absorbing beings.

Also everybody who trained got a powerup. considering all fat buu does is eat, i see no reason for him to be stronger than his buu saga self(ssj3 tier).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:13 am

buutenks wrote:
ShinTenshin wrote:We don't know if Buu is today the same, after all everybody got a power up.
So why buu can't be stronger ?
If not maybe 0,25-0,30.
Because buu is never shown to become stronger, nor does he train.

Buu becomes stronger by absorbing beings.

Also everybody who trained got a powerup. considering all fat buu does is eat, i see no reason for him to be stronger than his buu saga self(ssj3 tier).
fat buu isn't SS3 tier, pre or post.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:15 am

Speedster wrote: It is a shame really when someone actively wants to stay off-topic... Why then, don't you also talk about Freeza aiming to reach a power level of 1.3 million in the movie? Or about SSGSS Goku getting fatally wounded by Sorbet's ring?
Because these are not relevant to Super. Base Goku's power in the movies is relevant because Dragon Ball Super's Hakaishin Champa arc is written as a continuation of both the movies & the DB Super retellings.
Again what was that, that made it impressive if not its power? The blue hair? The cool aura? Then why did he refer to training? You do realise that it is like being more impressed by Vegeta going from regular SSJ1 to Super Vegeta against Cell instead of Mr Satan surpassing final form Freeza…
He was surprised that Goku could turn into a Super Saiyan God without the help from other Saiyans, that's what he said.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:22 pm

I just watched Geekdom101, Quaaman, laughingstockmedia and Dragonball Nation videos on Youtube and I was thinking they were saying exactly what I am trying to get across to some of you on here.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:43 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:I just watched Geekdom101, Quaaman, laughingstockmedia and Dragonball Nation videos on Youtube and I was thinking they were saying exactly what I am trying to get across to some of you on here.
We need statements man. We also need to know what the hell is going on with the Super Saiyan form.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Mar 12, 2016 6:52 pm

Zombie wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:I just watched Geekdom101, Quaaman, laughingstockmedia and Dragonball Nation videos on Youtube and I was thinking they were saying exactly what I am trying to get across to some of you on here.
We need statements man. We also need to know what the hell is going on with the Super Saiyan form.
But most of this talk came from Piccolo's fight, he has to be really strong or nothing makes sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:45 pm

Him being super strong is what wouldn't make sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:52 pm

Bullza wrote:Him being super strong is what wouldn't make sense.
Piccolo: Can you use a lesser form so I don't get crushed.
Frost: No need, I'm so worn out I don't even have the strength to kill you.

That's pretty much all I needed to know.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by fexus » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:13 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Bullza wrote:Him being super strong is what wouldn't make sense.
Piccolo: Can you use a lesser form so I don't get crushed.
Frost: No need, I'm so worn out I don't even have the strength to kill you.

That's pretty much all I needed to know.
Accidentally. You left that out.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by namekiansaiyan » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:19 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Bullza wrote:Him being super strong is what wouldn't make sense.
Piccolo: Can you use a lesser form so I don't get crushed.
Frost: No need, I'm so worn out I don't even have the strength to kill you.

That's pretty much all I needed to know.
Piccolo was trying to get more an advantage and when Frost mocked he then said everyone is underestimating me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Mar 12, 2016 8:25 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
Bullza wrote:Him being super strong is what wouldn't make sense.
Piccolo: Can you use a lesser form so I don't get crushed.
Frost: No need, I'm so worn out I don't even have the strength to kill you.

That's pretty much all I needed to know.
Piccolo was trying to get more an advantage and when Frost mocked he then said everyone is underestimating me.
Piccolo is not one to purposely have his opponent use lesser strength. He knows he's in trouble, and so he asks if he can go easy on him. Frost says he need not worry since he's so worn out. His legs were even trembling after he fought Goku.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

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