Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Wait, interview? Kaio-Ken? What's up?

[Hugo Boss]

Perhaps kaioken doesn't multiply SSB's power but rather Goku's base form? It's like he gainning power equivalent to his base plus his SSB. Though, that wouldn't seem much of an increase if base is hundreds of times weaker than blue.

[LightBing]

This is a theory so bear with me, an out-of-the-universe one. When proposed BoG and likely RoF, Mr.Toriyama didn't know he would be given the chance to write more and therefore to image plot with future consequences.

Which brings me to the inevitable retcon in BoG. When it was a isolated movie, I think Goku absorbing the God Powers was intended for that moment, it's a moment that the character deserves, because eventually he will lose to Beerus. And let's all agree Goku is a fighting genius.

But with RoF and the necessity of continuity, that might have been dropped. To give born to a new source of merchandising. The SSJB, the new transformation for the new movie that was stronger than SSJG.

But then! New series! So now, we have definitely continuity and the need to make everything glue, but they couldn't just modify the BoG arc. The impact would be lost. So now we have Whis line, which makes Goku absorbing the God powers a momentary thing (implied not said), besides adding the SSJ forms that were absent in the RoF movies and arc.

Making the intended progression in Super: Base < SSJ < SSJB(Only comparable with SSJG).

Which kinda rules out the 6-10-15 scale of BoG, if the Kaioken makes it's return and doesn't follow it's multiplier (we don't know how they will deal with it).

What do you guys think?

[Chiki]

Why don't you guys lay off the numbers and wait to see the episode this weekened and future to get an idea on the ssjbkaioken crap

Doesn't seem like it can be anything else.

Wtf, Toriyama said he didn't intend for Goku to surpass Beerus but with SSB + Kaioken he should be equal to Whis (if SSB is at least 7.5 on the power scale). Maybe it's a really short amount of time or something.

[ZombieVito]

Wait, interview? Kaio-Ken? What's up?

'
There's a Toriyama and Toyotaro interview with some few juicy tidbits released with volume 1 of the super manga. Titles and summaries for episodes 38-40 were released today.

[dbzfan7]

The Kaioken will most likely screw over the power levels even more, I think we should just give up guys

I already did. Which is why I wonder why people are going "NUH UH MY WAY MAKES MORE SENSE THAN YOURS CAUSE SO AND SO!" Literally no matter what the angle. No matter where you stand. There is always some point in the series that shoots the argument in the foot. Why? Cause Super is a clusterfuck which doesn't make sense. It just keeps changing and doing what ever the hell it wants. Like GT, but this is Super Logic.

[pacz360]

The Kaioken will most likely screw over the power levels even more, I think we should just give up guys

I already did. Which is why I wonder why people are going "NUH UH MY WAY MAKES MORE SENSE THAN YOURS CAUSE SO AND SO!" Literally no matter what the angle. No matter where you stand. There is always some point in the series that shoots the argument in the foot. Why? Cause Super is a clusterfuck which doesn't make sense. It just keeps changing and doing what ever the hell it wants. Like GT, but this is Super Logic.

Its sad that gt more coherent with power level than fucking super will ever be

[DragonHermit]

In the next episode titles, Hit is again referred to as the strongest man in Universe 6. Still not sure whether that means the team or the whole of U6.

[LightBing]

In the next episode titles, Hit is again referred to as the strongest man in Universe 6. Still not sure whether that means the team or the whole of U6.

I think it's fair to assume, he is in fact the strongest of that Universe. However Dragon Ball always leaves space for "the next challenge".

In Universe 7 there was Monaka so yeah, a Monaka type for Universe 6 isn't unlikely. However for all intentions if somebody says, Hit is the strongest in that Universe bar Champa and Vados, we can't disagree with that without assuming information.

[DragonHermit]

If he's stronger than Vados/Champa is what I'm wondering. Saying he's the strongest unequivocally, implies that he's stronger than them.

Anyhow, there's no point in considering multipliers at this point. For power levels all we can do is rank characters relative to each other at this point. We've probably entered tens of trillions right now.

[LightBing]

If he's stronger than Vados/Champa is what I'm wondering. Saying he's the strongest unequivocally, implies that he's stronger than them.

Anyhow, there's no point in considering multipliers at this point. For power levels all we can do is rank characters relative to each other at this point. We've probably entered tens of trillions right now.

By saying he's the strongest man they are already excluding Vados and Champa. They are Gods not "lower beings", for the lack of a better word.

[Cipher]

If he's stronger than Vados/Champa is what I'm wondering. Saying he's the strongest unequivocally, implies that he's stronger than them.

There's no reason that wouldn't just imply "strongest mortal"/non-God of Destruction. He's after the cube, and if he could take it from Vados and Champa by force, he'd presumably do so.

Also, that's just an episode summary for TV guides.

[Bullza]

Didn't one of the upcoming episode summaries say Champa tries to kill everyone and Hit becomes frozen with fear? I saw someone else say it was Cabba but if it was Hit then that kinda tells you what you need to know.

I can't see Hit being stronger than Champa let alone Vados. If Goku is gonna beat Hit but Toriyama isn't going to make him stronger than Beerus then...that's kind of your answer isn't it?

[ROCKYIII]

Gonna do one of those, mainly for my own sake. The BoG and RoF arcs are based on the movies and not Super (mainly because I just watched them)

Buu arc

SSJ3 Vegito - 400
SSJ2 Vegito - 100
Super Vegito - 50
Gohan Buu - 17
Gohan - 10
SSJ3 Gotenks - 8
SSJ2 Gotenks - 2
SSJ Gotenks - 1
SSJ3 Goku - 1
Kid Buu - 0.96
Good Buu - 0.5

BoG arc

Whis - 1,500
Beerus - 1,000
SSJG Goku - 600
Angry SSJ2 Vegeta - 50

RoF arc

Whis - 1,500
Beerus - 1,000
Golden Frieza - 800
SSJB Goku - 720
SSJB Vegeta - 685
Goku - 1.44
Vegeta - 1.37
Frieza Final Form - 1.3
SSJ Gohan - 1.08
Gohan - 0.022
Shisami - 0.0.22
Piccolo - 0.0.22

Champa arc

Whis - 1,500
Beerus - 1,000
Champa - 950
SSJB Goku - 790
SSJB Vegeta - 755
SSJ Goku - 79
SSJ Vegeta - 75.5
SSJ Cabba - 68.5
Magetta - 66
Frost (Final Form) - 52
Piccolo - ???
Frost (Third Form) - 1.75
Goku - 1.58
Vegeta - 1.51
Cabba - 1.44
Botamo - 1.37

Angry vegeta as strong as super vegeto smh

[Bullza]

It's bullshit I know but he did push Beerus to use 10% of his power, I was possibly low balling when I gave him a 50 as well. Had Beerus said 1% then it'd have been a much better fit.

Then again I do remember the back and forth here on whether Vegeta was stronger than Super Vegito or not after that episode aired.

Also we just assume that SSJ3 Vegito was included in Goku's statement. For all we know they may have just been referring to the Super Vegito we saw in DBZ. So he'd be the 400 and well above angry Vegeta.

[RandomGuy96]

Wait, interview? Kaio-Ken? What's up?

'
There's a Toriyama and Toyotaro interview with some few juicy tidbits released with volume 1 of the super manga. Titles and summaries for episodes 38-40 were released today.

Is it up anywhere? Link? The interview on Kanzenshuu's front page doesn't say anything about Kaio-ken...

[Kuririn Fan]

Wait, interview? Kaio-Ken? What's up?

'
There's a Toriyama and Toyotaro interview with some few juicy tidbits released with volume 1 of the super manga. Titles and summaries for episodes 38-40 were released today.

Is it up anywhere? Link? The interview on Kanzenshuu's front page doesn't say anything about Kaio-ken...

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... tart=15060
Look at the second post made by Herms.

[RandomGuy96]

Sounds like the fight with Pikkon. Goku will probably do that same "Super Kaio-ken" thing, which in that fight seemed to make him much stronger (enough to hurt and stun Pikkon with a punch, after being helpless for the whole fight) but no more than x2 at most. In exchange for leaving him gassed out after five seconds. So it's a high risk, high reward technique not much different than any "ultimate" attack.

At least, that's my prediction. For all I know they could do something completely different.

[singsing]

Hmm, I thought SSJ was about as strong as Goku when he first went SSG? Did something new happen to show that's not the case? Didn't think there was such a big gap between SSG and SSB.

[apex_pretador]

Did goku say anything about vegeta being tougher than nappa on earth invasion?

Well there was already a comment about Vegeta probably being more powerful than Nappa by Piccolo.

Probably is the strong word here. He's just guessing by the looks.

When they've already sensed golden freeza, then frost is really nothing comparison to freeza.

But Goku and Vegeta had been able to sense each other's energy and Beerus'. They were clearly unnerved when Frieza transformed into his Final Form though. I just think it's odd that Frost is portrayed as being stronger but not one person comments on his power or compares him to Frieza.

When were they "unnerved"?
There was just a generic "wow, you became a lot stronger" reaction.
Only when he transforms to his golden form, which is possibly hundreds, or even thousands of times stronger than his base form, did everyone comment on it being unbelievable, unimaginable etc.

No one will compare him to freeza when freeza is thousands of times stronger. It is like saying that no one is ever compared to first form freeza in the entire manga.

The main point is - nobody commented on GOKU being weaker than when he fought freeza, so goku is atleast the same.

Well nobody commented on Piccolo's power either and look at all the complications his power has brought up.

I'm just saying they could have included a few lines to make things a lot clearer.

Frost wasn't trying his best IMO. He was also tired a bit. Also, in power alone, piccolo stood no chance except makankosappo. He specialized in speed and he is that good of a fighter that he can make up for the strength gap significantly.

And piccolo reaching fat buu levels of power from like 1/3 his level in over 8 months and not getting commented is not a stretch to say when everyone is sensing powers stronger than buuhan on daily basis.