Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

I asked this question because if you are saying SSG manga = SSJ anime that means that the power level difference between SSJ3 and SSB is like .2, SSJ3 has a multiplier of 8 where as SSB has a multiplier of 10 over SSG. Does that power difference sound right to you in terms of SSB vs SSJ3? Basically SSJ3 and SSB are close enough power wise to be a good fight.

[Bullza]

This multiplier of 10 that Super Saiyan Blue has over Super Saiyan God...is that from what Whis said about why SSJB Vegeta failed to beat Hit? In the manga he doesn't say that Vegeta could only use 1/10th he said he couldn't even use 1/10th.

I'm dunno about the difference but if SSJ3 was 8x as strong as SSJG and SSJB was 11 or 12x as strong as SSJG then the gap is like 3-4 Super Saiyan God's stacked together. That's pretty significant considering how strong one of them is.

I don't think they'd be too close because Goku wasn't too concerned knowing Black was slightly above his SSJ3 and Trunks was plenty confident that Vegeta could beat Black after fighting him.

It's probably not many times stronger though because he could still react to both. Maybe it's like how SSJ2 Vegeta could do something to Fat Buu even though he was still stomped but was completely helpless against Kid Buu and Fat Buu was able to put up a decent fight against Kid Buu but in the end he stood little chance.

[TheMikado]

I know what you're trying to say but logically the single base makes the power scaling much slimmer just at a higher level and I'm inclinded to agree at least in the anime. It seems like SSB is an x500 to SSJ3 x400 on base which other people also estimate the same multiplier. It also makes the Trunks vs SSB Vegeta spar make a lot more sense and works with the SSJ3 Goku fight as well. In this scenario a SSB holding back at half power is still enough to beat SSJ2 but not enough to to dominate and completely murder them.

[Khin]

Damn, call about inconsistency! SSGSS might be supressed as shit, because 1-Hit by SSJ3 Goku was enough to finish Trunks but this same Trunks withstood SSGSS Vegeta blows, f****** Super power scale!

Vegeta just was holding back. Seriously, it's common sense. Vegeta wouldn't obliterate his own son just for a little fight. It's the same how he didn't kill Cabba with a gut punch, but just punched him strong enough to K.O him.

[Chiki]

Vegeta had to have been holding back no matter what view you have since SSJ3 Goku OHKOed Trunks and SSB Vegeta did not.

The logical conclusion is that SSB Vegeta held back massively, which is in line with Sorbet's laser ring being able to penetrate an off guard SSB Goku's chest and the form's perfect ki control.

Unless you guys think SSJ3 Goku is much stronger than SSB Vegeta? Use some common sense, please. Vegeta was massively holding back. It was just a game. Not a real fight. Common sense please.

[HeroR]

Not sure why people think that just because you're transformed that you're automatically fighting at full strength. For example, Goku had a power level of 3 million and Freeza at half power was at 60 million, yet he didn't scattered Goku across the planet in one punch. The same with Super Saiyan Goku 150 million power level not making half power Freeza explode in one hit.

Believe or not, the people in Dragon Ball can control their power so they can hit even when transformed without causing the planet to explode. And why would Vegeta one-shot Trunks. It's a training session so he would use just enough power to punished Trunks. Not put him in a coma.

[Bullza]

Vegeta had to have been holding back no matter what view you have since SSJ3 Goku OHKOed Trunks and SSB Vegeta did not.

The logical conclusion is that SSB Vegeta held back massively, which is in line with Sorbet's laser ring being able to penetrate an off guard SSB Goku's chest and the form's perfect ki control.

Unless you guys think SSJ3 Goku is much stronger than SSB Vegeta? Use some common sense, please. Vegeta was massively holding back. It was just a game. Not a real fight. Common sense please.

But then there was Black who Trunks said was slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku and he didn't one shot Trunks. It's also not like Trunks was hurt from Goku's attacks because he got up straight away, he also went into that fight moments after regaining consciousness from what Black did to him.

Maybe Vegeta was holding back a lot but he beat Trunks easier than Black did so he was still fighting at a level above Black, which makes sense because he'd just laughed off SSJ3 level power. Trunks was about ready to give up even training after having fought Vegeta because he was confident they'd beat Black something he was not confident about after he fought Goku because he said he was weaker than Black.

SSJB Vegeta could be 100x stronger than SSJ3 Goku/Black but at least in that fight he most certainly fought at a higher level than them. Those two being far above SSJG and Trunks reacting and withstanding those attacks makes him God level.

[TheMikado]

^ I agree with the above in the anime, except that I do not believe SSB is that much stronger than SSJ3 in the anime.

[Bullza]

As long as Black hasn't gotten much stronger from what he was in the future before when he fights Trunks and he fights in his base form before he turns into any Super Saiyan Rose then it'd give a good idea of how they compare if he were to fight either SSJB Goku or Vegeta because neither of them have really grown any stronger.

They'll probably be strong enough to force Black to turn Super Saiyan and then they'll continue fighting. If Super Saiyan Rose is simply Black as a Super Saiyan then you'd think that he'd be 50x stronger (so 50x stronger than SSJ3) than before and we'd have to see how SSJB Goku/Vegeta were to compare to him then.

[GodVegetto91]

This multiplier of 10 that Super Saiyan Blue has over Super Saiyan God...is that from what Whis said about why SSJB Vegeta failed to beat Hit? In the manga he doesn't say that Vegeta could only use 1/10th he said he couldn't even use 1/10th.

I'm dunno about the difference but if SSJ3 was 8x as strong as SSJG and SSJB was 11 or 12x as strong as SSJG then the gap is like 3-4 Super Saiyan God's stacked together. That's pretty significant considering how strong one of them is.

I don't think they'd be too close because Goku wasn't too concerned knowing Black was slightly above his SSJ3 and Trunks was plenty confident that Vegeta could beat Black after fighting him.

It's probably not many times stronger though because he could still react to both. Maybe it's like how SSJ2 Vegeta could do something to Fat Buu even though he was still stomped but was completely helpless against Kid Buu and Fat Buu was able to put up a decent fight against Kid Buu but in the end he stood little chance.

Wait what!? What are you talking about? Where was it stated that SSJ Blue is 10x stronger than SSJG? And where did you get the crazy idea that SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ God??
SSJ God>SSJ3 is a fact. By an insane margin as demonstrated during battle of gods.

[TheMikado]

^ and this is why you cannot reconcile the anime and manga levels...

[HeroR]

This multiplier of 10 that Super Saiyan Blue has over Super Saiyan God...is that from what Whis said about why SSJB Vegeta failed to beat Hit? In the manga he doesn't say that Vegeta could only use 1/10th he said he couldn't even use 1/10th.

I'm dunno about the difference but if SSJ3 was 8x as strong as SSJG and SSJB was 11 or 12x as strong as SSJG then the gap is like 3-4 Super Saiyan God's stacked together. That's pretty significant considering how strong one of them is.

I don't think they'd be too close because Goku wasn't too concerned knowing Black was slightly above his SSJ3 and Trunks was plenty confident that Vegeta could beat Black after fighting him.

It's probably not many times stronger though because he could still react to both. Maybe it's like how SSJ2 Vegeta could do something to Fat Buu even though he was still stomped but was completely helpless against Kid Buu and Fat Buu was able to put up a decent fight against Kid Buu but in the end he stood little chance.

Wait what!? What are you talking about? Where was it stated that SSJ Blue is 10x stronger than SSJG? And where did you get the crazy idea that SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ God??
SSJ God>SSJ3 is a fact. By an insane margin as demonstrated during battle of gods.

Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God, so his base form is equal or a little weaker than Super Saiyan God.

So Goku's transformations are:

Base form =< Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

So Goku's new Super Saiyan 3 is stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods since his base is practically Super Saiyan God.

[TheMikado]

^ don't forget Piccolo, Trunks, and all of the other universe fighters just happened to be above SSG levels too. According to the above scenario.

[HeroR]

^ don't forget Piccolo, Trunks, and all of the other universe fighters just happened to be above SSG levels too. According to the above scenario.

Seriously. Trunks did nothing to Super Saiyan 2 Goku. He just block, caught Trunks' fists, and then one-shotted him as a Super Saiyan 3. There was nothing even remotely shown that Trunks was Goku's equal. Base form Cabba knocked Vegeta back, landed hits, and pushed back Vegeta's energy attack.

And Piccolo only stood a remote chance against Frost because Goku beat the shit out of him to the point he could barely stand, Piccolo used a technique that killed someone three times stronger than him, and Frost fought Piccolo with kid's gloves that Piccolo mocked him on.

Why is context lost here?

[GodVegetto91]

This multiplier of 10 that Super Saiyan Blue has over Super Saiyan God...is that from what Whis said about why SSJB Vegeta failed to beat Hit? In the manga he doesn't say that Vegeta could only use 1/10th he said he couldn't even use 1/10th.

I'm dunno about the difference but if SSJ3 was 8x as strong as SSJG and SSJB was 11 or 12x as strong as SSJG then the gap is like 3-4 Super Saiyan God's stacked together. That's pretty significant considering how strong one of them is.

I don't think they'd be too close because Goku wasn't too concerned knowing Black was slightly above his SSJ3 and Trunks was plenty confident that Vegeta could beat Black after fighting him.

It's probably not many times stronger though because he could still react to both. Maybe it's like how SSJ2 Vegeta could do something to Fat Buu even though he was still stomped but was completely helpless against Kid Buu and Fat Buu was able to put up a decent fight against Kid Buu but in the end he stood little chance.

Wait what!? What are you talking about? Where was it stated that SSJ Blue is 10x stronger than SSJG? And where did you get the crazy idea that SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ God??
SSJ God>SSJ3 is a fact. By an insane margin as demonstrated during battle of gods.

Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God, so his base form is equal or a little weaker than Super Saiyan God.

So Goku's transformations are:

Base form =< Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

So Goku's new Super Saiyan 3 is stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods since his base is practically Super Saiyan God.

Ow so you folks are jumping to conclusions now i see. Okay than i get it. I thought it was stated somewhere. But do you really believe that's what they have in mind over there at toei? That would make Beerus litterally hundreds of times stronger than SSJ God. And for some reason i just can't see that as a possibility. While it would be cool, i just can't believe that.

[Bullza]

Yeah I checked the Dragon Team subs yesterday and when Super Saiyan Goku is being told about how his God time limit ran out he says that he doesn't feel like he'd gotten weaker and Beerus explains that the God power is still running through him.

So at that point Super Saiyan was as strong as Super Saiyan God. Obviously with all he training he's had since then he'd be even stronger as a Super Saiyan now.

Super Saiyan 2 is twice as strong as that. Super Saiyan 3 is eight times as strong as that and Super Saiyan Blue is over eight times as strong that.

At least going by the anime Super Saiyan God is nothing particularly special anymore.

[HeroR]

Wait what!? What are you talking about? Where was it stated that SSJ Blue is 10x stronger than SSJG? And where did you get the crazy idea that SSJ3 is stronger than SSJ God??
SSJ God>SSJ3 is a fact. By an insane margin as demonstrated during battle of gods.

Goku absorbed Super Saiyan God, so his base form is equal or a little weaker than Super Saiyan God.

So Goku's transformations are:

Base form =< Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan

So Goku's new Super Saiyan 3 is stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods since his base is practically Super Saiyan God.

Ow so you folks are jumping to conclusions now i see. Okay than i get it. I thought it was stated somewhere. But do you really believe that's what they have in mind over there at toei? That would make Beerus litterally hundreds of times stronger than SSJ God. And for some reason i just can't see that as a possibility. While it would be cool, i just can't believe that.

Why wouldn't they?

Battle of Gods showed that Goku absorbed godhood and was able to fight Beerus in his base and Super Saiyan forms when Super Saiyan 3 Goku got two-shotted. And Episode 53 confirmed that the Super Saiyan forms kept their multiplers, Goku can still use Super Saiyan 2 and 3, and they're weaker than Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

Beerus is literally as strong as he needs to be to stay ahead of Goku and Vegeta since Toriyama doesn't want them to surpass him yet.

[GodVegetto91]

Okay since i'm ofcourse confused aswell. Just like many of you because of Toei's bad habit of staying consistent with powerlevels, i'm willing to change my viewpoints. (Again)
So how many of you here on Kanzenshuu believe the following to be true..
Base =< SSJ God < Super Saiyan Post < SSJ2 < SSJ3 < SSJ Blue?
But ofcourse like stated in the bog era; Super Saiyan = SSJ God. (After absorbing godhood) and logically as time went by and Goku kept training as a super saiyan he'd be (logically) even stronger. But ever since the U6 arc with the 2 base theory. It seems to imply that SSJ Goku "magically" got weaker. Which doesn't make any sense at all. But then how is Trunks suddenly SSJ God + Level?

[TheMikado]

Okay since i'm ofcourse confused aswell. Just like many of you because of Toei's bad habit of staying consistent with powerlevels, i'm willing to change my viewpoints. (Again)
So how many of you here on Kanzenshuu believe the following to be true..
Base =< SSJ God < Super Saiyan Post < SSJ2 < SSJ3 < SSJ Blue?
But ofcourse like stated in the bog era; Super Saiyan = SSJ God. (After absorbing godhood) and logically as time went by and Goku kept training as a super saiyan he'd be (logically) even stronger. But ever since the U6 arc with the 2 base theory. It seems to imply that SSJ Goku "magically" got weaker. Which doesn't make any sense at all. But then how is Trunks suddenly SSJ God + Level?

Yeah exactly why the two theory exists in the first place.
In the anime it's pretty clear that SSJ is a ton stronger than SSG and everyone else managed to scale up past that. If piccolo was SPC level theoritically God level Frost should be able to poke him into oblivion even while tired. Based on what Beerus did to SSJ3 Goku at least 4 times stronger than piccolo and we know he was pretty weak in RoF... Anyway the manga is pretty clear that their normal forms are still weaker than their God forms.

In this anime we have this weird end cap where SSG is like 50x weaker than SSJ1 and SSB is 100x stronger than SSJ3...??

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

I don't get why people think ssj god =base after god. Yeah it makes you stronge having the ki but that doesn't mean its all I nthe base form. Getting ssj3 makes you stronger but it isn't all in the base. I mean ssj3 multiplier to god power...that a ridiculous thought. Beerus isn't that much stronger then ssjgod.