Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[BlueBasilisk]

You're all overlooking the much more important issue here.

Dypso went straight for Hit but said "Nah fuck that" to final form Frieza.

[HeroR]

Anyway, Goku dominated Kale and Caulifla without much trouble. Kale swapped punches against a worn Goku and still did not hit any hits (Goku left his Ki blast with no scratches).

Also, if they could beat Goku, they would not have merged (they were almost eliminated and Goku only used God)

He did have trouble with Kale even with Super Saiyan God. The problem was that Kale's attack were weaksaurce. The biggest problem was Cali, who was just outmatched and Kale didn't want to fight without Cali. If you noticed, her fighting skills are way below Cali despite being more powerful.

You're all overlooking the much more important issue here.

Dypso went straight for Hit but said "Nah fuck that" to final form Frieza.

I think it's because he recognized that Freeza is a nuts and probably know about his golden form.

[brett wheeler]

You're all overlooking the much more important issue here.

Dypso went straight for Hit but said "Nah fuck that" to final form Frieza.

His exact words where "I can't deal with this guy" and by the context I think he ment his personality, he knows frieza has golden frieza has used it twice I guarantee he knows it, so he would be dealing with someone who is ssb lvl that is a sadistic fuck on top of it, nobody but a saiyan would want to deal with that period.

[zamasu121]

Seems like Toei wasn't happy enough to make Blue a joke, they also need to make God a joke. I specially love the whole "SSB defeated?" like if it mean anything at this point. Disgusting, Toyo save us.

That being said, if Goku needs Kaioken to fight her in that form, maybe she is strong enough to fight Jiren if she unlocks SS3. Or not. Who knows at this point.

Huh?, Toyotaro had base vegito fuck up merged Zamasu, that shit is far worse.

[avasatu]

I would be much more upset about Kefla's power if we actually knew how strong fusion was. She could be anywhere from SS3 Caulifla to base Kale * base Caulifla. The latter makes absolutely no sense, so I generally say base Potara fusion is between 500 and 4000 times the average of the bases of the users. There are reasons for those numbers stemming from many statements I've come across over the years. Even if we say base Kefla is 5k times base Caulifla, that doesn't even put her in SSG range, by my calculations.

I have work that seem to hold up to even the most severe scrutiny I've encountered that show that SSG is, at absolute worst, 20 times SS3. This would put Goku one notch above base Kefla in SSG, and noticably below SS Kefla even as an SSB (assuming 10 times multipler from SSG, as implied by the manga). I'm hoping this episode either confirms something close to my suspicions, OR shows us that Goku is in fact stronger than we thought, OR shows me that one of my multipliers is too small.

EDIT: We even know from the episode that fusion is "tens of times" stronger than the sum of the two fighters, not pure multiplication. This means my 5000 is probably even a high ball, which is why I am a little skeptical. Also, while Goku did imply that SS3 Vegito was weaker than SSG Goku by a long shot, he hadn't yet trained with Whis, and was only comparing his weak body to the ritually unlocked SSG power. We are not allowed to reference that quote going forward, because now SSG is presumably some fixed multiplier from a much more powerful and angel-trained Goku.

[Kataphrut]

There was a bit in today's episode where Kale (who had green hair) said to Caulifla (sporting yellow) about Goku's red hair- "Red, Blue, it's all the same."

I feel like we can just hang that quote up on the wall and shut down this whole thread. It's never going to get any more succinct than that. That is Dragon Ball Super's attitude to power scaling in a nutshell.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Base Kefla at the bare minimum is stronger than current SS3 Goku. I don't find anything wrong with her beating a weakened SSG Goku.

You guys are over reacting as always.

How are we overacting? Goku implied in the BoG arc that SSG is stronger than Vegetto, but now Base Kefla, who's two components are weaker than Base Goku in their base forms, is stronger than SSG Goku. It makes no sense.

[ZombieVito]

Base Kefla at the bare minimum is stronger than current SS3 Goku. I don't find anything wrong with her beating a weakened SSG Goku.

You guys are over reacting as always.

How are we overacting? Goku implied in the BoG arc that SSG is stronger than Vegetto, but now Base Kefla, who's two components are weaker than Base Goku in their base forms, is stronger than SSG Goku. It makes no sense.

This just proves SSG is not hundreds of times stronger than SS3 as I have been thinking for a while. There's also base Black being SS3 tier and not being that much stronger (At least not dozens of times) than Blue Goku once he turned Rose.

[SansrivaaL]

Seems like Toei wasn't happy enough to make Blue a joke, they also need to make God a joke. I specially love the whole "SSB defeated?" like if it mean anything at this point. Disgusting, Toyo save us.

That being said, if Goku needs Kaioken to fight her in that form, maybe she is strong enough to fight Jiren if she unlocks SS3. Or not. Who knows at this point.

Huh?, Toyotaro had base vegito fuck up merged Zamasu, that shit is far worse.

Unless I missed a page, I domt remember the manga having bas Vegito fight with MZamasu.

[MisteryOne]

Seems like Toei wasn't happy enough to make Blue a joke, they also need to make God a joke. I specially love the whole "SSB defeated?" like if it mean anything at this point. Disgusting, Toyo save us.

That being said, if Goku needs Kaioken to fight her in that form, maybe she is strong enough to fight Jiren if she unlocks SS3. Or not. Who knows at this point.

Huh?, Toyotaro had base vegito fuck up merged Zamasu, that shit is far worse.

I know, and I already complained about that when it happened. Still, the way he handles powerscaling is way more consistent and logical that the bulshit that is the anime now. They don't even know how Kale's green form is supposed to be in terms of strengh.

Hell, even with Vegito's case, you can use the excuse that it was a surprise attack, just like people like to use the hold back excuse. But here? Goku saw her coming. She's still kicking his ass, has apparently unlimited power, and it's noted by Blue Vegeta as something dangerous. All of that in base. How is it worse, specially when Kale and Caulifla should not have a boost as big as Goku and Vegeta's? Just how?

[SansrivaaL]

Oh, I remember now, the surprise blast.

[MisteryOne]

Seems like Toei wasn't happy enough to make Blue a joke, they also need to make God a joke. I specially love the whole "SSB defeated?" like if it mean anything at this point. Disgusting, Toyo save us.

That being said, if Goku needs Kaioken to fight her in that form, maybe she is strong enough to fight Jiren if she unlocks SS3. Or not. Who knows at this point.

Huh?, Toyotaro had base vegito fuck up merged Zamasu, that shit is far worse.

Unless I missed a page, I domt remember the manga having bas Vegito fight with MZamasu.

He blasted Merged's arm away when he appeared, just before Merged was going to finish base Goku and Vegeta.

Edit: Nevermind, you already got it lol

[GodVegetto91]

So Base Vegetto>Super Saiyan God Goku now....!?? Wtf!

Base Kefla was dominating Freakin Super Saiyan God Goku!

Base Vegetto>=Base Kefla

Even though it was previously stated that Super Saiyan God Goku is superior to Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto!
What the actual f***!???

This powerscaling is completely messed up!

BoG: SSJ God Goku>SSJ3 Vegetto

TOP: Base Kefla>Super Saiyan God Goku

Can you see the logic here??

[ZombieVito]

So Base Vegetto>Super Saiyan God Goku now....!?? Wtf!

Base Kefla was dominating Freakin Super Saiyan God Goku!

Base Vegetto>=Base Kefla

Even though it was previously stated that Super Saiyan God Goku is superior to Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto!
What the actual f***!???

This powerscaling is completely messed up!

BoG: SSJ God Goku>SSJ3 Vegetto

TOP: Base Kefla>Super Saiyan God Goku

Can you see the logic here??

Yes.

Base Vegetto should be stronger than current SS3 Goku. Kafla was beating a weakened SSG Goku BTW.

People forget that Goku's base is very fucking strong compared to his BoG one. In BoG he couldn't even beat Namek Freeza without Super Saiyan.

[Bullza]

So let's see what we got from this episode.

1. Kale went Berserk and it was enough to trigger a reaction from Jiren unlike Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

2. She gained control of that form in a slim appearance. Tien said her power grew a lot but I don't know if he was referring to after she's gained control or if he was Inc!using when she powered up.

3. Dyspo thought he was no match for Frieza. That's particularly interesting because Dyspo was shown to get the upper hand on Super Saiyan God so are we to assume he was taking Golden Frieza into account?

4. Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seems to on par with Toppo.

5. Super Saiyan God Goku overwhelms Kale and Caulifla which means Kale never was God level but probably wasn't too far off.

6. Vados said that Potara Fusion increases their powers TENS of times not hundreds or thousands. It would also seemingly be tens of times than Berserk form too.

7. Base Kelfa seems to be quite a bit above Super Saiyan God Goku which would make sense if she's tens of times stronger than Berserk Kale.

8. Kelfa is going to transform, not sure into what exactly but she'll be tens or even hundreds of times stronger still and it's enough that Goku needs to use Blue Kaioken.

[SansrivaaL]

So Base Vegetto>Super Saiyan God Goku now....!?? Wtf!

Base Kefla was dominating Freakin Super Saiyan God Goku!

Base Vegetto>=Base Kefla

Even though it was previously stated that Super Saiyan God Goku is superior to Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto!
What the actual f***!???

This powerscaling is completely messed up!

BoG: SSJ God Goku>SSJ3 Vegetto

TOP: Base Kefla>Super Saiyan God Goku

Can you see the logic here??

Yes.

Base Vegetto should be stronger than current SS3 Goku. Kafla was beating a weakened SSG Goku BTW.

People forget that Goku's base is very fucking strong compared to his BoG one. In BoG he couldn't even beat Freeza without Super Saiyan.

Yeah this is really the only thing I can hold onto as well now, Goku is still tired, he's just pushing himself.

[zamasu121]

Seems like Toei wasn't happy enough to make Blue a joke, they also need to make God a joke. I specially love the whole "SSB defeated?" like if it mean anything at this point. Disgusting, Toyo save us.

That being said, if Goku needs Kaioken to fight her in that form, maybe she is strong enough to fight Jiren if she unlocks SS3. Or not. Who knows at this point.

Huh?, Toyotaro had base vegito fuck up merged Zamasu, that shit is far worse.

I know, and I already complained about that when it happened. Still, the way he handles powerscaling is way more consistent and logical that the bulshit that is the anime now. They don't even know how Kale's green form is supposed to be in terms of strengh.

Hell, even with Vegito's case, you can use the excuse that it was a surprise attack, just like people like to use the hold back excuse. But here? Goku saw her coming. She's still kicking his ass, has apparently unlimited power, and it's noted by Blue Vegeta as something dangerous. All of that in base. How is it worse, specially when Kale and Caulifla should not have a boost as big as Goku and Vegeta's? Just how?

Goku is tired and isn't fully powered up compared to merged Zamasu who smacked around ssb Vegeta and Goku.

[Lord Beerus]

I just think the Potara is just really powerful. There's never been an indication of how much it multiplies the fused users strength beyond the vague implication of "He/She is really powerful." So it all fair game. I mean, it's certainly a massive jump in power for Kelfa's sake, but, magic earrings can do shit like that. Plus, the episode does mention that Goku is fighting beyond his limitations, implying he is still tired even as a SSJG. So it really doesn't bother me that much.

EDIT: Just remembered that Vados does actually mention that the Potara does boost the strength of the fused user tens of times.

[Cetra]

People forget that Goku's base is very fucking strong compared to his BoG one. In BoG he couldn't even beat Namek Freeza without Super Saiyan.

Which is still either an inconsistency or misunderstood considering Gohan's request would make no sense when it comes to fairness when other fighters are stronger than them without transformation and then this way would just have Piccolo and 18 be the unfair ones instead of the SSJs, thus not create a fair situation but just shift the disadvantage.

[ZombieVito]

6. Vados said that Potara Fusion increases their powers TENS of times not hundreds or thousands. It would also seemingly be tens of times than Berserk form too.

I wouldn't be sure about that. Tens of times is exactly what Zamasu said when Goku turned SS2.