Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:15 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:So Base Vegetto>Super Saiyan God Goku now....!?? Wtf!
That would be a weakened Super Saiyan God Goku. They've been repeatedly mentioning throughout these episodes that he isn't exactly in top shape.

Even then, a considerably nerfed SSG Goku was still powerful enough to have a comfortable advantage against a tag-team Kale and Caulifla. That should cast aside all doubts that the form is in fact vastly stronger than Super Saiyan 3.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by brett wheeler » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:25 pm

So from what I can tell vados does say that potara is the the sum of the 2 multiplied tens of times, so maby potara is a+b×X amount witch I guess can make sense, I mean lets say
Base goku buu saga was a 1,
Vegeta was the same, while buuhan was a 700,
Base vegito would be 2 times 10 ( bare minimum )= 20 times 50 = 1000,
Now lets say califla is a 70 and kale is a 40,
While tired supresed god goku is also 1000,
So 110×10=1100,
And remeber this is bare minimum vados said tens of times so its probably more basically the stronger you are the stronger the fusion even tho initial ssg was stronger than vegito then maby with stronger base form there fusion makes them stronger than god and blue, this would also mean ultra instinct gives a bigger boost than we thought as it's bare minimum GoD lvl and only vegito blue has been stated to be any where close to that ( besides jiren of course).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:26 pm

Vados_chan wrote:Kale goes from tanking SSB Kamehameha to getting joked on by SSG? And Kafla better bet at least SSBK
Goku did say at the time that he was only going to let out a little more power so it fits.
Doctor wrote:I think this just may top the Spirit Sword in terms of stupidity. When I thought Toei finally realized how big of a boost SSG is when he was fighting Kale & Caulifla, they go and do this right afterwards.
What's wrong with it. Super Saiyan Berserk Kale is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku and wasn't ridiculously far off from Super Saiyan God Goku from the looks of it and if Base Kefka is tens of times stronger than that then it would be alright no?
MasterVampire wrote:Why do you people still try to make sense of this power level shit
It's fun. Like putting a jigsaw together.
GodVegetto91 wrote:At first Berserker Mode Kale was made out to be such a big deal, she could even withstand and walk through a kamehameha from SSJ Blue Goku no less. Yet this time (even after controlling her incredible power, and gaining even more energy, as stated by Tien), she was unable to even beat a tired Super Saiyan God! Even with the help of Caulifla!

However, that's not the main problem of this episode. I can easily forget that.
What i do have a big problem with is the fact that they're trying to tell us that a BASE Potara Fused Saiyan is ABOVE a freaking Super Saiyan God!!!

What happened to the whole "Super Saiyan God is superior to even a SSJ3 Vegetto from the Buu Saga"!??? As HEAVILY implied by Battle of Gods and backed up by various different statements and feats, along with reason and logic?
Kale was always over hyped. They made it clear that Hit was their teams ace and he was only Super Saiyan Blue level himself.

The whole thing with Super Saiyan God being above Super Saiyan 3 Vegito still applies. Don't forget that when that was said both Goku and Vegeta in Base form were weaker than Namek Saga Frieza. Caulifla (dunno about Kale) is far far stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks.

There's a vast difference between the U6 Saiyans power and Goku and Vegeta's power from the Buu saga, it's not even comparable.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:How are we overacting? Goku implied in the BoG arc that SSG is stronger than Vegetto, but now Base Kefla, who's two components are weaker than Base Goku in their base forms, is stronger than SSG Goku. It makes no sense.
Again Goku and Vegeta in the Battle of Gods saga are dirt in comparison to where Caulifla and Kale stand. They are world's apart. Battle of Gods saga Base Vegito wouldn't even be able to move Base Kelfa.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RichardKing2 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:29 pm

The powerscaling and strength discussions in regards to this show is making my head hurt. Not blaming the users, but the show really doesn't make it easy.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:30 pm

Does this episode pretty confirm that Goku can make SSJB as strong as he wants it to? I mean, that case was the most blatant and in-your-face with the Kamehameha beam struggle with Krillin in Episode 84, but given how events transpired in Episode 100 and here in Episode 114, I think it's safe to say that Goku has made SSJB his defacto form in that he can make SSJB as powerful or as weak as he needs or wants it to be. Kale simply overhyped from the get-go and was never SSJB or SSJG tier to begin with. Here walking through SSJB Goku's Kamehameha was simply a red herring in terms of how powerful she was. In fact, individually, both Kale and Caulifa are both below a fatigued SSJG Goku. But them fused together brings them to above that tier of strength. Which would tie into Vados' statement of Potara making the fused user tens of times stronger. It actually all works together pretty well when you think about it.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:32 pm

I don't think you can compare current base Goku to buu saga base Goku. The manga tho seems to imply they are still at buy saga levels in their ssj1-3 forms.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:35 pm

I came here once again to compliment you guys persistance in trying to make sense with the power scalling, I mean seriously I even bother? This is the same series we got an evidence that Base Saiyans > SSJ3 Gotenks and a time after we got SSJ Goku toe-to-toe with a rusty SSJ Gohan :lol:

Doctor. wrote:If we go by this, then base Vegetto would be stronger than SSG Goku.
Then Goku was wrong about fusion not working at Beerus, I always had that SSJ3 Vegetto was somewhat superior to SSJ God, but that's just me.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by fexus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:35 pm

Why do most people here seem to don't want to acknowledge that Goku is tired and both Kale and Caulifla are at full power? Even when the episodes themselves are trying to hammer it into your brain how weak and tired Goku actually is. Do you just ignore anything that points to Goku being tired? Or do you guys really want Kale and Caulifla to be that strong?
I ask thou, WHY MUST IT BE ME?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:35 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Bullza wrote: 6. Vados said that Potara Fusion increases their powers TENS of times not hundreds or thousands. It would also seemingly be tens of times than Berserk form too.
I wouldn't be sure about that. Tens of times is exactly what Zamasu said when Goku turned SS2.
What about it?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:39 pm

buutenks wrote:I don't think you can compare current base Goku to buu saga base Goku. The manga tho seems to imply they are still at buy saga levels in their ssj1-3 forms.
The manga confirmed base Goku is way stronger than Shin.
Bullza wrote: What about it?
That the Portara fusion can have a power boost of over hundreds of times (since SS2 is 100 times base). Daizenshuu says as much in Vegetto's bio and this episode confirmed it at last.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:41 pm

Do people really think that both Caulifla and Kale are just Majin Boo arc tiers? That's why many can't accept their Potara fusion is stronger than a weaker SSJ God?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:45 pm

Bullza wrote:So let's see what we got from this episode.

1. Kale went Berserk and it was enough to trigger a reaction from Jiren unlike Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

2. She gained control of that form in a slim appearance. Tien said her power grew a lot but I don't know if he was referring to after she's gained control or if he was Inc!using when she powered up.

3. Dyspo thought he was no match for Frieza. That's particularly interesting because Dyspo was shown to get the upper hand on Super Saiyan God so are we to assume he was taking Golden Frieza into account?

4. Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seems to on par with Toppo.

5. Super Saiyan God Goku overwhelms Kale and Caulifla which means Kale never was God level but probably wasn't too far off.

6. Vados said that Potara Fusion increases their powers TENS of times not hundreds or thousands. It would also seemingly be tens of times than Berserk form too.

7. Base Kelfa seems to be quite a bit above Super Saiyan God Goku which would make sense if she's tens of times stronger than Berserk Kale.

8. Kelfa is going to transform, not sure into what exactly but she'll be tens or even hundreds of times stronger still and it's enough that Goku needs to use Blue Kaioken.
Dyspo would know about Golden Freeza since Freeza transformed twice into it and Freeza is nuts. Dyspo would stay away.

Both Vegeta and Toppo seems to be dicking around.

Goku's attack did nothing to Kale. The problem, Kale's attacks weaksauce, which we saw when Super Saiyan 2 Goku took no real damaged from Berserk Kale. She's like a RPG tank. High defense, low attack. So she is 'god level'.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:27 am

ZombieVito wrote:That the Portara fusion can have a power boost of over hundreds of times (since SS2 is 100 times base). Daizenshuu says as much in Vegetto's bio and this episode confirmed it at last.
Well Super Saiyan 2 being exactly 100 times stronger would be tens of times. You wouldn't say hundreds of times because that would be Super Saiyan 3.

So the Potara fusion could be tens of times stronger in the same way, so probably no more than 100.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:46 am

Noah wrote:
Doctor. wrote:If we go by this, then base Vegetto would be stronger than SSG Goku.
Then Goku was wrong about fusion not working at Beerus, I always had that SSJ3 Vegetto was somewhat superior to SSJ God, but that's just me.
Goku wasn't wrong about fusion not working on Beerus. SSG didn't work either though. In Super SSG Goku wasn't even 1% of Beerus' power, which is kind of dumb tbh. It takes away from that fight but oh well.
But ya I agree, I think ssj3 Vegito would be stronger than BoG SSG Goku.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by brett wheeler » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:47 am

Bullza wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:That the Portara fusion can have a power boost of over hundreds of times (since SS2 is 100 times base). Daizenshuu says as much in Vegetto's bio and this episode confirmed it at last.
Well Super Saiyan 2 being exactly 100 times stronger would be tens of times. You wouldn't say hundreds of times because that would be Super Saiyan 3.

So the Potara fusion could be tens of times stronger in the same way, so probably no more than 100.
My thoughts exactly its basically a+b×10-100 anywhere between witch could make a much stronger base saiyan stronger than ssg

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:54 am

HeroR wrote:
Bullza wrote:So let's see what we got from this episode.

1. Kale went Berserk and it was enough to trigger a reaction from Jiren unlike Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

2. She gained control of that form in a slim appearance. Tien said her power grew a lot but I don't know if he was referring to after she's gained control or if he was Inc!using when she powered up.

3. Dyspo thought he was no match for Frieza. That's particularly interesting because Dyspo was shown to get the upper hand on Super Saiyan God so are we to assume he was taking Golden Frieza into account?

4. Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seems to on par with Toppo.

5. Super Saiyan God Goku overwhelms Kale and Caulifla which means Kale never was God level but probably wasn't too far off.

6. Vados said that Potara Fusion increases their powers TENS of times not hundreds or thousands. It would also seemingly be tens of times than Berserk form too.

7. Base Kelfa seems to be quite a bit above Super Saiyan God Goku which would make sense if she's tens of times stronger than Berserk Kale.

8. Kelfa is going to transform, not sure into what exactly but she'll be tens or even hundreds of times stronger still and it's enough that Goku needs to use Blue Kaioken.
Dyspo would know about Golden Freeza since Freeza transformed twice into it and Freeza is nuts. Dyspo would stay away.

Both Vegeta and Toppo seems to be dicking around.

Goku's attack did nothing to Kale. The problem, Kale's attacks weaksauce, which we saw when Super Saiyan 2 Goku took no real damaged from Berserk Kale. She's like a RPG tank. High defense, low attack. So she is 'god level'.
In fact, that does not even make sense. It was never said that Kale had great resistance but low attack power. We're talking about her power, and her power (even bigger than on EP 100) did not even scratch Goku God. She just showed off punching Goku. Although she had not shown much damage, she was clearly inferior to Goku God.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hakaishin Liquir » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:58 am

Why do people keep on bringing up that Goku is tired? It's already been proven that tired base Goku is stronger than base Kale and Caulifla, so BASE Kefla being stronger than current SSG Goku makes no sense since Goku in BoG seemed more confident in SSG than full power Vegito.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PushoverMediaCritic » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:03 am

Hey, remember the Rival Boost?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:03 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Bullza wrote:So let's see what we got from this episode.

1. Kale went Berserk and it was enough to trigger a reaction from Jiren unlike Super Saiyan 3 Goku.

2. She gained control of that form in a slim appearance. Tien said her power grew a lot but I don't know if he was referring to after she's gained control or if he was Inc!using when she powered up.

3. Dyspo thought he was no match for Frieza. That's particularly interesting because Dyspo was shown to get the upper hand on Super Saiyan God so are we to assume he was taking Golden Frieza into account?

4. Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seems to on par with Toppo.

5. Super Saiyan God Goku overwhelms Kale and Caulifla which means Kale never was God level but probably wasn't too far off.

6. Vados said that Potara Fusion increases their powers TENS of times not hundreds or thousands. It would also seemingly be tens of times than Berserk form too.

7. Base Kelfa seems to be quite a bit above Super Saiyan God Goku which would make sense if she's tens of times stronger than Berserk Kale.

8. Kelfa is going to transform, not sure into what exactly but she'll be tens or even hundreds of times stronger still and it's enough that Goku needs to use Blue Kaioken.
Dyspo would know about Golden Freeza since Freeza transformed twice into it and Freeza is nuts. Dyspo would stay away.

Both Vegeta and Toppo seems to be dicking around.

Goku's attack did nothing to Kale. The problem, Kale's attacks weaksauce, which we saw when Super Saiyan 2 Goku took no real damaged from Berserk Kale. She's like a RPG tank. High defense, low attack. So she is 'god level'.
In fact, that does not even make sense. It was never said that Kale had great resistance but low attack power. We're talking about her power, and her power (even bigger than on EP 100) did not even scratch Goku God. She just showed off punching Goku. Although she had not shown much damage, she was clearly inferior to Goku God.
It does when you considered that she tanked a Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku's Kamehameha, yet she did almost no damaged to Super Saiyan 2 Goku. If your argument is that Goku scaled down his attack, what was the point of him even transforming past Super Saiyan 2?

She was mostly inferior in terms of fighting skill, while when Goku and her scuffled they were more or less even.
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Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Almighty Majin » Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:37 am

Noah wrote:Do people really think that both Caulifla and Kale are just Majin Boo arc tiers? That's why many can't accept their Potara fusion is stronger than a weaker SSJ God?
That seems to be the case because seeing from people's comments, it looks like they're comparing Kefla to BoG arc Vegetto that was mentioned.

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