Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[dragon boss z]

17 isn't weaker than base Goku. He beat ssj Goku with no effort so I don't know how people are coming to that conclusion. He forced Goku to use Ssb with the latter stating that he had no intention of using the form. So if Goku was forced to use his strongest form despite having no intention to, that means that 17 is at the level to warrant Ssb. Then there's goku stating that 17 would be a terrifying foe if he was still evil due to his strength.

Not sure how someone weaker than base Goku would beat ssj Goku with ease then force Goku to use his strongest transformation.

I'm not sure if 17 is weaker than base Goku or not, but I wouldn't call it completely out of the question. Don't forget Krillin FORCED Goku to go ssj in their fight and he is way weaker than base Goku. And I'm not talking about when Goku went SSB on Krillin. Krillin was forcing Goku back with ki blasts and Goku had to go ssj to stop him self from being ringed out. Super just makes no sense sometimes. 17 could be below base Goku, the same as base Goku, above base Goku, above ssj Goku, or even almost SSB Goku level. At this point there is no way to say for sure. I personally don't see him being SSB level though. I don't see him being able to challenge Toppo, or Golden Frieza. I see him maybe challenging Dypo.

[Namekian Fuse]

Someone explain to Akira Toriyama that Piccolo and Gohan need to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta. I know Goku is the main character, but it's more interesting when more of the characters are potential rivals in power.

As far as Ultimate/Mystic Gohan, he's at least stronger than base SSB Goku. In thier battle, Goku had to go SSB with Kaio-ken to beat him.

Also,I don't think the Universe 6 Namekians were at full on fusion. They may have the potential to become exponentially more powerful. Piccolo only fused with Nail and look how powerful that made him. Kami fusion only supposedly made Piccolo whole again.

[namekiansaiyan]

Someone explain to Akira Toriyama that Piccolo and Gohan need to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta. I know Goku is the main character, but it's more interesting when more of the characters are potential rivals in power.

As far as Ultimate/Mystic Gohan, he's at least stronger than base SSB Goku. In thier battle, Goku had to go SSB with Kaio-ken to beat him.

Also,I don't think the Universe 6 Namekians were at full on fusion. They may have the potential to become exponentially more powerful. Piccolo only fused with Nail and look how powerful that made him. Kami fusion only supposedly made Piccolo whole again.

If Saonel and Pirina train I expect them to be get a lot stronger than they are now since their fusions were just about stabilised in episode 118.

[Namekian Fuse]

Someone explain to Akira Toriyama that Piccolo and Gohan need to be as strong as Goku and Vegeta. I know Goku is the main character, but it's more interesting when more of the characters are potential rivals in power.

As far as Ultimate/Mystic Gohan, he's at least stronger than base SSB Goku. In thier battle, Goku had to go SSB with Kaio-ken to beat him.

Also,I don't think the Universe 6 Namekians were at full on fusion. They may have the potential to become exponentially more powerful. Piccolo only fused with Nail and look how powerful that made him. Kami fusion only supposedly made Piccolo whole again.

If Saonel and Pirina train I expect them to be get a lot stronger than they are now since their fusions were just about stabilised in episode 118.

Right! They had to enter the battle before their fusions were complete. I hope these universes are not destroyed for good, I would like to see more of them.

[Bullza]

Does the Black Hole feat correlate with Tupper in anyway?

Android 18 easily lifted Tupper but couldn't stand up in the Black Hole. However Base Goku did stand in the Black Hole but was helpless against Tupper.

Perhaps it suggests that Tupper didn't use a significant weight with Android 18 or Goku struggled because he was in a bear hug and that's apparently a deadly technique in this series.

[dragon boss z]

Does the Black Hole feat correlate with Tupper in anyway?

Android 18 easily lifted Tupper but couldn't stand up in the Black Hole. However Base Goku did stand in the Black Hole but was helpless against Tupper.

Perhaps it suggests that Tupper didn't use a significant weight with Android 18 or Goku struggled because he was in a bear hug and that's apparently a deadly technique in this series.

Depending on how Goku is feeling at the moment his base can be as weak as Krillin to as strong as Beerus, lmao.

[avasatu]

Yes he is since why would he used Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan when he said he had no intention to, say that 17 was fearsome and was happy that he wasn't an enemy, and note that 17 was also holding back while evenly trading hands with him and even stopped his Kamehameha with a barrier, if it was all for '17 is only above Super Saiyan'.

Goku turns Super Saiyan Blue for damn near everybody now, he went Super Saiyan Blue for scrubs like Nink and the Trio De Dangers. He even went Super Saiyan Blue against Ribrianne, a weaker version of the Ribrianne that Android 18 beat.

Does he really need to be as strong as Super Saiyan Blue to be considered fearsome? Wasn't Final Form Frieza or Bergamo or Base Black fearsome?

He stopped his Kamehameha with a barrier but the same Goku used the same technique that completely destroyed Hits Time Dimension and beat him. He overpowered Merged Zamasu. He destroyed the Black Hole.

Base Goku, Android 17 and Android 18 where on their knees in that Black Hole from the immense gravity. Goku turned Super Saiyan Blue and he stood up and blasted his way out of there all the while Android 17 being stuck to the floor.

It's almost like Goku has been challenging himself and practicing by 'needlessly' going blue at all sorts of different power levels this whole time (following the current narrative of the show!).

[Bullza]

So how many characters in this Tournament would you guys place above Super Saiyan Rose Black?

I suppose these are all the potential choices.

Hit
Kefla
Saonel
Pirina
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Golden Frieza
Android 17
Obuni
Jiren
Toppo
Dyspo

It's uncertain because we don't really know for sure if Super Saiyan Rose Black at the end was stronger than Goku and Vegeta or not. For all we know Super Saiyan Rose Black could be stronger than the current Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta. In any case I've bolded who I think is stronger for the time being.

[Hugo Boss]

For all we know Super Saiyan Rose Black could be stronger than the current Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta.

In that case, I think it would be safe to say: Jiren, Goku, Kafla and Hit.

[namekiansaiyan]

It think it hard to compare Goku Black and Zamasu to characters in the Tournament.

I think Jiren, Hit, Toppo and Kefla would match tgem though

In general we need more statements from characters like what Gohan said against Saonel and Pirina or something similar.

[BWri]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but does this fusion stabilization that the U6 Namekians mentioned confirm that old theory that Nail's fusion with Piccolo granted him a boost of potential immediately following the Frieza battle? It would explain how Piccolo reached the level of Super Saiyan in just three years of training. Kinda like a time release thing. To those who came up with that theory, kudos.

[namekiansaiyan]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but does this fusion stabilization that the U6 Namekians mentioned confirm that old theory that Nail's fusion with Piccolo granted him a boost of potential immediately following the Frieza battle? It would explain how Piccolo reached the level of Super Saiyan in just three years of training. Kinda like a time release thing. To those who came up with that theory, kudos.

That is why Saonel and Pirina should be way stronger if they train if they get revived. Piccolo most probably was stabilised as he only fused with 1 but also still had a lot of power to gain when he trained.

[BWri]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but does this fusion stabilization that the U6 Namekians mentioned confirm that old theory that Nail's fusion with Piccolo granted him a boost of potential immediately following the Frieza battle? It would explain how Piccolo reached the level of Super Saiyan in just three years of training. Kinda like a time release thing. To those who came up with that theory, kudos.

That is why Saonel and Pirina should be way stronger if they train if they get revived. Piccolo most probably was stabilised as he only fused with 1 but also still had a lot of power to gain when he trained.

I agree. I see them as having a massive amount of potential. I actually believe that if they stayed in the tournament, that they would have continued to increase in power, but even if that wasn't the case they should have a high ceiling of power accessible through training. We'll see. Depends on how Toriyama sees them. Toei seems to like them at the very least.

[majinwarman]

She is weaker than God level (as shown in ep 114) and the Namekians are as well. They are below mystic Gohan who imo is probably below SSG.

I think Gohan is above SSG.

Maybe, but until I see real proof of him being above SSG I'll have him bellow. Having trouble with Obuni or the U6 Namekians is something I don't see happening to SSG Goku. I don't think Gohan is as strong as Kale and Kale turned out to be weaker than a tired SSG Goku.

I respect that.

[Namekian Fuse]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but does this fusion stabilization that the U6 Namekians mentioned confirm that old theory that Nail's fusion with Piccolo granted him a boost of potential immediately following the Frieza battle? It would explain how Piccolo reached the level of Super Saiyan in just three years of training. Kinda like a time release thing. To those who came up with that theory, kudos.

That is why Saonel and Pirina should be way stronger if they train if they get revived. Piccolo most probably was stabilised as he only fused with 1 but also still had a lot of power to gain when he trained.

Right. Technically speaking, Piccolo has only fused with one other Namekian and he is at least as strong as the Saiyans during the Buu Saga. The two Universe 6 Namekians fused with tens of if not a hundred Namekians judging by the introspective sequence in episode 118. They should ultimately prove to have potentially ridiculous power levels once the fusions are fully complete and they refine their training.

There is hope to make Piccolo a true force to be reckoned with yet.

[avasatu]

So how many characters in this Tournament would you guys place above Super Saiyan Rose Black?

I suppose these are all the potential choices.

Hit
Kefla
Saonel
Pirina
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Golden Frieza
Android 17
Obuni
Jiren
Toppo
Dyspo

It's uncertain because we don't really know for sure if Super Saiyan Rose Black at the end was stronger than Goku and Vegeta or not. For all we know Super Saiyan Rose Black could be stronger than the current Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta. In any case I've bolded who I think is stronger for the time being.

I think Goku Black is total fodder to the SSB Saiyans at this point, and I think 17 is strong. He did not appear to be affected in any real way by the black hole, and was the only one able to track UI Goku vs Jiren.

Jiren, Hit, Toppo, Vegeta, Kafla, Goku, Frieza, and more than likely 17/Gohan.

[dragon boss z]

I think Goku Black is total fodder to the SSB Saiyans at this point, and I think 17 is strong. He did not appear to be affected in any real way by the black hole, and was the only one able to track UI Goku vs Jiren.

Jiren, Hit, Toppo, Vegeta, Kafla, Goku, Frieza, and more than likely 17/Gohan.

17 looked no different from 18 in the black hole.

[ZombieVito]

So how many characters in this Tournament would you guys place above Super Saiyan Rose Black?

I suppose these are all the potential choices.

Hit
Kefla
Saonel
Pirina
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Golden Frieza
Android 17
Obuni
Jiren
Toppo
Dyspo

It's uncertain because we don't really know for sure if Super Saiyan Rose Black at the end was stronger than Goku and Vegeta or not. For all we know Super Saiyan Rose Black could be stronger than the current Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta. In any case I've bolded who I think is stronger for the time being.

Gowasu flat out says he's the strongest in episode 65.

From that list I would say Jiren, Kefla and Toppo.

[apex_pretador]

So how many characters in this Tournament would you guys place above Super Saiyan Rose Black?

I suppose these are all the potential choices.

Hit
Kefla
Saonel
Pirina
Goku
Vegeta
Gohan
Golden Frieza
Android 17
Obuni
Jiren
Toppo
Dyspo

It's uncertain because we don't really know for sure if Super Saiyan Rose Black at the end was stronger than Goku and Vegeta or not. For all we know Super Saiyan Rose Black could be stronger than the current Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta. In any case I've bolded who I think is stronger for the time being.

Jiren, Kefla, Hit and Goku
SSR Black isn't below SSB level.

17 is closer to base Goku than SSB

Edit: I put golden freeza / Vegeta exactly equal with SSR black, and toppo barely below him.

[buutenks]

The only one who could defeat Black Rose 100% is Jiren and Hit with his one hit kill techniques(unless Black can somehow magically survive having his heart stopped lol). The rest, i can see Black just getting zenkais from their beatings. Black is one durable guy. Especially considering how cocky Kefla is. Golden Freeza and Toppo dont stand a chance TBH, they will fight, Black will get stronger and then he will kill them.