Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:17 pm

Rally 07 wrote:But Boo really IS much stronger than before though. Keep in mind, he WAS able to keep up with Base form Gokou regardlessly if he somewhat playing around or even holding back. However Gokou didn't unnecessarily transform into Super Saiyan or anything, meaning he probably wasn't messing around much. AND Good Boo forced Gokou into a ring out in their sparring match too.
Then there's Gokou's level of power in his Base form. Well in Super episode 95, Freeza seen Base form Gokou as a potential rival and thought Gokou would fight him in Base form. From Freeza's perspective, he thought Gokou would think he was no stronger than he was in the Fukkatsu no F story arc. So hypothetically, Gokou's Base form can be Fukkatsu no F story arc Super Saiyan Blue level. So in theory, Good Boo could possibly be on that level. Meaning the 2 hours of nonstop training gave Boo a massive, godly buff. I mean, it's a reflection of Majin Boo's potential overall in my opinion.
Just to be clear, I’m not saying Boo didn’t get more powerful in those training sessions. It’s very plausible to think he did, really. But this is not what Goku said, or we can’t tell Goku made it explicit. The only thing he commented to have increased was Boo’s speed, in the same sentence he compliments the power. My theory is that Boo is as strong as Neko Majin Z, who is seemingly on the level of Super Saiyan Goku in the later portion of his own manga.

By the way, I didn’t quite get the impression Freeza considered Goku’s normal form as a rival. I think he imagined SSB Goku wasn’t much different from last time they fought, which still gives impact to Goku’s revelation that he also improved dramatically.
dragon boss z wrote:Well base Goku was able to hold of all three trio de danger at once even with their good teamwork. Though Vegeta did randomly go ssj and then SSB. The writers just seem to like spamming transformations to make it more "epic".
Sure, but eventually he would be outstripped like that, which probably wouldn’t happen if they weren’t somewhat close to his level. Once Goku and Vegeta decided to go Super Saiyan, they easily cornered them.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:08 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Sure, but eventually he would be outstripped like that, which probably wouldn’t happen if they weren’t somewhat close to his level. Once Goku and Vegeta decided to go Super Saiyan, they easily cornered them.
Ya, but from how Basil and Lavender fared against Buu and Gohan I would put them anywhere between namek Frieza to super perfect Cell/buu saga ssj level. And I think Bergamo is around Buu level.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:53 am

This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:22 am

Rally 07 wrote:
ernesth100 wrote:Makes me wonder how Boo would fair against certain fighters. Buu vs Beserker Kale? Anilaza? Jiren? Toppo? SSJ2 Caulifla? All would've been fairly interesting fights.
Boo would probably fair well against Kale and Caulifla (Obviously not Kefla). Mainly because Kale and Caulifla seem pretty relative to Base form Gokou just like Boo. However Caulifla did sorta push Gokou into transforming into Super Saiyan 2. And then Mastered Berserker Kale is even stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla. You may argue that Gokou was fatigued though but that's kinda out of the question as Gokou was fatigued even from fighting Jiren the first time. I mean, he spammed Kaioken x 20 repeatedly. And had a push session between him and Jiren with the Genkidama while using Kaioken x 10 and 20.
Back to Kale and Caulifla though. I honestly believe Kale could probably win against Boo, but Caulifla is a maybe. This is a good versus battle idea by the way. Current Good Boo vs. Kale and Caulifla. That's a very interesting versus battle.

But against Jiren, Toppo, Aniraza, or even Kefla and the stronger God tier fighters, Boo would likely be demolished. Although Boo's power can grow pretty fast albeit. Plus his power can spike and go beyond it's normal limitations. I was actually pretty excited about what Boo could bring to the Tournament of Power until Freeza came..... back into the picture.
Buu is only Base Goku level, nothing more. Caulifla and Kale( Pre-Mastering Berserk) were able to hold their own against SSJ2 Goku, so they're not too far behind as you're implying. As soon as Kale Mastered her Berserk LSSJ, SSJ2 Goku was on the ropes and he transformed into SSG in order to have an edge

Buu doesn't stand a chance against anyone who's SSJ2 Goku level

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ShinTenshin » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:24 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
Seems Gohan is way weaker than a full power SSBLUE.
The Kamehameha of Gohan ultimate is unable to do something to a Toppo WITH his guard down !
Even in pure strength he's totally dominated.
The Kamehameha of Goku Blue is able to do some damages to a Toppo WITH his GUARD activated, that make a big difference.
Vegeta Blue seems equal to the same Toppo.
I think what is strange is the animé power level, when the SSBLUE isn't every time at his best. (by example against Kale).

Probably because Blue is the DBSUPER trademark and Toei need to use the form every single day to sell his products.
But with the 122 it's pretty clear than a SSBLUE at full power is way beyond ultimate.
Overall i'm okay with your list, just have Ultimate before SSGOD and Ikari, and add BLUE Kaioken between blue and Ui.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Rally 07 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:03 pm

Issei189 wrote: Buu is only Base Goku level, nothing more. Caulifla and Kale( Pre-Mastering Berserk) were able to hold their own against SSJ2 Goku, so they're not too far behind as you're implying. As soon as Kale Mastered her Berserk LSSJ, SSJ2 Goku was on the ropes and he transformed into SSG in order to have an edge

Buu doesn't stand a chance against anyone who's SSJ2 Goku level
Oh I agree. Kale and Caulifla in their Super Saiyan forms would be 50 times stronger than Boo.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm

Base goku and vegeta>ssj3 gotenks those are facts people get used to it
Current Ssjg goku>>>>>>>(bog Ssjg goku)
Current ssj goku>bog Ssjg goku

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RedHeat » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:57 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
Edit: SSJ Beserker should be around the God Transformation tier since it could bring someone of base Kale's power (lower than android 18) to somewhere around Super Saiyan God Goku level.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:28 pm

RedHeat wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
Edit: SSJ Beserker should be around the God Transformation tier since it could bring someone of base Kale's power (lower than android 18) to somewhere around Super Saiyan God Goku level.
Kale and Caulifla never get to Super Saiyan 3 Goku's level of power until Kale gets her green-haired form with pupils in Ep. 114. That was a huge portion of their intent behind the Ep. 113 tag-team fight against Goku.

This green-haired form with pupils is weaker than SSGod. Goku took a point blank two-handed ki blast similar to a kamehameha and he jumped right out of it and socked Kale. Goku was also mentioned to be tired from fighting Jiren on three separate occasions in Ep. 114.
Last edited by ChiefWamsutta on Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by STH » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:30 pm

pacz360 wrote:Base goku and vegeta>ssj3 gotenks those are facts people get used to it
Current Ssjg goku>>>>>>>(bog Ssjg goku)
Current ssj goku>bog Ssjg goku
Beyond god Goku and Vegeta*
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by STH » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:32 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
This is so illogical.
Current SSJ2 Goku (in anime) is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.
Melkaniator wrote: "DBS anime is a fan service series that delivers irrelevant dialogue, inconsistent writing, and lazy designs.

The DB manga never had so many mistakes, nor those were this constant."

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:47 pm

STH wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
This is so illogical.
Current SSJ2 Goku (in anime) is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.
Ignore Ultimate for a moment because I really wasn't sure where to put it (plus, it isn't exactly a Saiyan transformation).

The rest of what I did was very logical. It's a given that Base < Great Ape < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan Grade 2 < Super Saiyan Grade 3 < Super Saiyan Full Power < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan Blue = Super Saiyan Rosé < Ultra Instinct.

That much is given. Now, Kale's SS form (what I call SSProper for ease) is shown to be slightly above SS2, as she is stronger than Caulifla at full power against Kahseral and forces Goku to use SS3. SSBerserker is not more powerful than SS3, as Caulifla and Kale are amazed at such a powerful form. Goku also only uses a little bit more power than SS2 against SSBerserker the first time he ever fights. SSLegend (Kale's green-haired form with pupils) is above SS3, as Goku has to use SSGod, but a tired SSGod Goku is still far above SSLegend Kale.

The SS2 version of SSLegend (green-haired form with pupils) is what Kefla uses and the only reason she is that strong is because is a fusion. SSRage pushed an SS2-level Trunks up to SSBlue level, but was still slightly weaker.

So SSProper is above SS2 but below SS3. We know SSBerserker is above SSProper but still below SS3. SSLegend and SSLegend2 are above SS3 but below SSGod. SSRage is between God and Blue.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by STH » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:58 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
STH wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
This is so illogical.
Current SSJ2 Goku (in anime) is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.
Ignore Ultimate for a moment because I really wasn't sure where to put it (plus, it isn't exactly a Saiyan transformation).

The rest of what I did was very logical. It's a given that Base < Great Ape < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan Grade 2 < Super Saiyan Grade 3 < Super Saiyan Full Power < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan Blue = Super Saiyan Rosé < Ultra Instinct.

That much is given. Now, Kale's SS form (what I call SSProper for ease) is shown to be slightly above SS2, as she is stronger than Caulifla at full power against Kahseral and forces Goku to use SS3. SSBerserker is not more powerful than SS3, as Caulifla and Kale are amazed at such a powerful form. Goku also only uses a little bit more power than SS2 against SSBerserker the first time he ever fights. SSLegend (Kale's green-haired form with pupils) is above SS3, as Goku has to use SSGod, but a tired SSGod Goku is still far above SSLegend Kale.

The SS2 version of SSLegend (green-haired form with pupils) is what Kefla uses and the only reason she is that strong is because is a fusion. SSRage pushed an SS2-level Trunks up to SSBlue level, but was still slightly weaker.

So SSProper is above SS2 but below SS3. We know SSBerserker is above SSProper but still below SS3. SSLegend and SSLegend2 are above SS3 but below SSGod. SSRage is between God and Blue.
I only meant the Ultimate form :think:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:07 pm

STH wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:
STH wrote: This is so illogical.
Current SSJ2 Goku (in anime) is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.
Ignore Ultimate for a moment because I really wasn't sure where to put it (plus, it isn't exactly a Saiyan transformation).

The rest of what I did was very logical. It's a given that Base < Great Ape < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan Grade 2 < Super Saiyan Grade 3 < Super Saiyan Full Power < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan Blue = Super Saiyan Rosé < Ultra Instinct.

That much is given. Now, Kale's SS form (what I call SSProper for ease) is shown to be slightly above SS2, as she is stronger than Caulifla at full power against Kahseral and forces Goku to use SS3. SSBerserker is not more powerful than SS3, as Caulifla and Kale are amazed at such a powerful form. Goku also only uses a little bit more power than SS2 against SSBerserker the first time he ever fights. SSLegend (Kale's green-haired form with pupils) is above SS3, as Goku has to use SSGod, but a tired SSGod Goku is still far above SSLegend Kale.

The SS2 version of SSLegend (green-haired form with pupils) is what Kefla uses and the only reason she is that strong is because is a fusion. SSRage pushed an SS2-level Trunks up to SSBlue level, but was still slightly weaker.

So SSProper is above SS2 but below SS3. We know SSBerserker is above SSProper but still below SS3. SSLegend and SSLegend2 are above SS3 but below SSGod. SSRage is between God and Blue.
I only meant the Ultimate form :think:
Ahhhhh, well, I hope the rest of what I wrote made sense. I am pretty confident about the placements of everything except for Ultimate.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Frieza » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:17 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I dont think Super Saiyan Legend 2 is a true transformation that just any saiyan can obtain and is unique to Kefla and her fusion.

Unlike the fusions of the past, two normal saiyans with identical transformation trees, Caulifla and Kale have to completely different lines of transformation. Kefla's transformations are a fusion of Normal and Legendary Super Saiyan. A similar yet different thing happened with Black and Zamasu. For all intensive purposes Merged Zamasu is Super Saiyan Rose, his hair is only white due to Future Zamasu's influence.

Both are far superior examples of the potential of Potara Fusion (as well as what can go wrong in Zamasu's case) then Vegito.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by STH » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:04 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
STH wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:
Ignore Ultimate for a moment because I really wasn't sure where to put it (plus, it isn't exactly a Saiyan transformation).

The rest of what I did was very logical. It's a given that Base < Great Ape < Super Saiyan < Super Saiyan Grade 2 < Super Saiyan Grade 3 < Super Saiyan Full Power < Super Saiyan 2 < Super Saiyan 3 < Super Saiyan God < Super Saiyan Blue = Super Saiyan Rosé < Ultra Instinct.

That much is given. Now, Kale's SS form (what I call SSProper for ease) is shown to be slightly above SS2, as she is stronger than Caulifla at full power against Kahseral and forces Goku to use SS3. SSBerserker is not more powerful than SS3, as Caulifla and Kale are amazed at such a powerful form. Goku also only uses a little bit more power than SS2 against SSBerserker the first time he ever fights. SSLegend (Kale's green-haired form with pupils) is above SS3, as Goku has to use SSGod, but a tired SSGod Goku is still far above SSLegend Kale.

The SS2 version of SSLegend (green-haired form with pupils) is what Kefla uses and the only reason she is that strong is because is a fusion. SSRage pushed an SS2-level Trunks up to SSBlue level, but was still slightly weaker.

So SSProper is above SS2 but below SS3. We know SSBerserker is above SSProper but still below SS3. SSLegend and SSLegend2 are above SS3 but below SSGod. SSRage is between God and Blue.
I only meant the Ultimate form :think:
Ahhhhh, well, I hope the rest of what I wrote made sense. I am pretty confident about the placements of everything except for Ultimate.
Yes, I agree with the rest of what you wrote. Still, I think that the Super Saiyan Legend form should not be in line because it is a form that comes from Fusion.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:22 pm

STH wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
This is so illogical.
Current SSJ2 Goku (in anime) is stronger than Ultimate Gohan.
No he isn't not even close
Gohan was not even at full power against him

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:11 pm

ChiefWamsutta wrote:This is my list for how strong each Saiyan transformation is to compared each other. Feel free to comment if you disagree with me.

Please note that I call Kale's Super Saiyan form Super Saiyan Proper, and I call Kefla's SS1 form Super Saiyan Legend, and Kefla's SS2 form Super Saiyan Legend 2.

Also, I know I put Ultimate in there. It is placed where Ultimate Gohan would be currently.

Image
Their are some Saiyan Forms I still don't fully understand on this list if their a possibility in explaining them;

What is SSJ-Proper and how is it different from SSJ-Legend Level 1?!

How does SSJ-Rage Differ from each other, what makes it special?!

What is the differences between SSJ-Blue and SSJ-Rose?!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:16 pm

What is the differences between SSJ-Blue and SSJ-Rose?!
According to Future Zamasu in the manga, 'Super Saiyan Rosè' is when a Saiyan possessing proper God status surpasses Super Saiyan God (in this case, Black had the natural soul of a God and the body of a Saiyan). So, technically, if Goku or Vegeta were to become Gods of Destruction in the future, their Super Saiyan Blue forms would instantly be replaced by Super Saiyan Rosè, as they would become proper Gods.

From a power standpoint, Super Saiyan Rosè should be equal in power to Super Saiyan Blue (although Black does remark that he has reached a stage beyond the reach of mere mortals).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:59 pm

What on Earth is Super Saiyan Saiyan Proper and Super Saiyan Legend 2 and 3?

Is the latter supposed to be what Kale obtained after mastering the Berserk form and slimming down?

It seemed like Super Saiyan Berserk was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 as well considering Jiren reacted to the former but took no notice of the other one.

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