Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Noah]

Because the statement is useless if it's wrong and it's never contradicted by the way. There's not a single thing in both the anime and manga that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power. That's just head canon.

Head canon is what you're doing now: ignoring logic to back your point. The fact that Shin didn't even knew about the role of a God of Destruction just explains for itself that he never experienced Beerus full power.

[ZombieVito]

Because the statement is useless if it's wrong and it's never contradicted by the way. There's not a single thing in both the anime and manga that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power. That's just head canon.

Head canon is what you're doing now: ignoring logic to back your point. The fact that Shin didn't even knew about the role of a God of Destruction just explains for itself that he never experienced Beerus full power.

I'm afraid you have it backwards my friend.

Where's the statement that confirms Shin doesn't know Beerus full power?

The fact that he compared Vegetto to him speaks for itself. Especially when it was never contradicted.

[wolflonnie]

Come on, this stupid excuse of Shin's ignorance. That was clearly the author's intent of giving us an idea of where Vegetto stands in power (and Beerus, too).
Toyotaro wanted us to think that SSB Vegetto is as strong/a bit stronger than Beerus, and the fact that Toriyama didn't bat an eye most likely means that he has no problem with the notion. Simple as that.
Also, Shin isn't THAT stupid. His stupidity regarding PL's is always taken out of context and exaggerated.
The dude is just naive sometimes, due to inexperience. Toyotaro didn't wrote his statement with the idea of making him an invalid source.
He had plenty of time for gauging Beerus' power, and he wouldn't had claimed something so wild as Vegetto being "perhaps stronger" than Beerus if he hadn't had AT THE VERY LEAST a sense of Beerus' full power.
Stop already with this "Shin is an idiot" crap.

[Noah]

I'm afraid you have it backwards my friend. Where's the statement that confirms Shin doesn't know Beerus full power? The fact that he compared Vegetto to him speaks for itself. Especially when it was never contradicted.

Am I?

Dragon Ball Super: Episode #003
Context: Elder Kaioshin is worried that Beerus destroyed another planet
Kibitoshin: “I've never seen him so frightned before... Is Beerus-sama really that?”

And then Elder Kaioshin proceeds explaining the role of the God of Destruction, meaning that in no opportunity has ever Shin experienced Beerus power before and very unlikely had after.

Also no power comparison was made by Shin between Vegetto and Beerus in Episode #066. If your point is based on the manga, then that's too bad as I see only as a side product compared to the anime.

[ZombieVito]

I'm afraid you have it backwards my friend. Where's the statement that confirms Shin doesn't know Beerus full power? The fact that he compared Vegetto to him speaks for itself. Especially when it was never contradicted.

Am I?

Dragon Ball Super: Episode #003
Context: Elder Kaioshin is worried that Beerus destroyed another planet
Kibitoshin: “I've never seen him so frightned before... Is Beerus-sama really that?”

And then Elder Kaioshin proceeds explaining the role of the God of Destruction, meaning that in no opportunity has ever Shin experienced Beerus power before and very unlikely had after.

Also no power comparison was made by Shin between Vegetto and Beerus in Episode #066. If your point is based on the manga, then that's too bad as I see only as a side product compared to the anime.

OK?

Since both come out of the same source, as long as it doesn't contradict anything I will use things for the manga.

And I'm waiting for the statement that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power.

[Kenneth La Torre]

So based on the fact that we know that toppo isnt getting a power boost, and is just instead going to release his full power, I'm kinda thinking that when the grand priest stop the fight, it was for gokus safety. It also begs the question on how suppressed jiren is. In two intences, toppo has said that anyone rivaling him, are nothing to jiren (anime) and that toppp has a long way to go before he is able to catch up to jiren (manga).

My bet is that jiren wasnt even using 1% against goku the first time around.

[Noah]

And I'm waiting for the statement that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power.

He knows what Beerus has shown so far in the series, we're mainly talking about Beerus still unseen full power. You can't gauge something that you never experienced it's full extend before.

[ZombieVito]

And I'm waiting for the statement that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power.

He knows what Beerus has shown so far in the series, we're mainly talking about Beerus still unseen full power. You can't gauge something that you never experienced it's full extend before.

So no statement then?

OK.

[Kenneth La Torre]

And I'm waiting for the statement that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power.

He knows what Beerus has shown so far in the series, we're mainly talking about Beerus still unseen full power. You can't gauge something that you never experienced it's full extend before.

So no statement then?

OK.

Yeah i agree with you about vegito being compared to a 100% beerus. It wouldnt make sense for him to campare vegito to beerus known power because... beerus has only shown
Power relative to a ssb/ssg. Theres a reason that even merged zamasu (who was toying with both ssb goku and vegeta) wasnt compared to beerus or any god of destruction, because he wasnt close to a god of destruction (corrupted version excluded). Ssb vegito toying with merged zamasu scales well with a beerus one-shotting a cssb vegeta, as both required a little to no effort

[Noah]

So no statement then? OK.

You don't have one either, Shin never made a power comparison between Vegetto and Beerus in the anime, and in the manga he said "could it be" not "he is"

You're just taking this statement literally to fill with your personal interpretation.

[Kenneth La Torre]

en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
"his pompous, entitled attitude"

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Toppo isn't stronger than Goku from the exhibition match. He made that clear when he stated that he wasn't sure if he could beat him and he would leave Goku to Jiren.

[ZombieVito]

So no statement then? OK.

You don't have one either, Shin never made a power comparison between Vegetto and Beerus in the anime, and in the manga he said "could it be" not "he is"

You're just taking this statement literally to fill with your personal interpretation.

The mere fact he compared them means they are close.

No way around that.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Toppo isn't stronger than Goku from the exhibition match. He made that clear when he stated that he wasn't sure if he could beat him and he would leave Goku to Jiren.

Seems like that statement doesnt matter, as now toppo is stronger than ever, and by the looks of it, its gonna be very impressive.

[pacz360]

Updated TOP tier list
Top:Jiren,UI goku,ssj2 Kefla
High:Ssjb kkx20 goku, Hyper Blue vegeta,God Toppo,Ssj Kefla,Aniraza,Hit (cage of time)
Ssjb/Ssjg tier list
Top tier:ssjb goku,ssjb vegeta, Hit (pre jiren fight),base toppo,golden Freeza
Mid tier:Ultimate Gohan,Android 17,Dyspo(MSM),U6 nameks,u3 mecha,
Low tier:obuni, base Dyspo,FF Freeza,Ssjg goku,mastered ssj beserker kale

[wolflonnie]

[spoiler]My current list:

- Zenos
- Zenos guards
- Grand Priest
- Angels
- Jiren (FP)
- Stronger GoDs (Beerus, etc.) / SSB Vegetto
- Goku UI
- Merged Zamasu (LoS) / GoD Toppo (estimating)
- Weaker GoDs / Initial Goku UI / SSJ2 Kefla
- Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Blue KKx20 Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue KKx10 Goku / Aniraza
- Merged Zamasu (no LoS)
- SSJ Kefla / Super Saiyan Blue KK Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (final zenkai) / Toppo
- Super Saiyan Blue Goku / Golden Frieza
- Hit
- Dyspo (FP) / Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
- Ultimate Gohan / Android 17
- Base Kefla / Super Saiyan God Goku / Final Form Frieza / Base Goku Black
- Super Saiyan Berserk Controlled Kale / Future Zamasu
- U6 Namekkians / Super Saiyan Berserk Kale
- Super Saiyan 3 Goku / Obuni
- Stronger super saiyan 2s (Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Cabba)
- Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
- Piccolo / Present Zamasu
- Android 18
- Super saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.)
- Base saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.) / Buff Buu
- Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
- Good Buu
- Final form Frost
- Wolves
- Krillin, Buff Roshi, etc.

I do think that Krillin, Roshi, etc. are comparable to the likes of Super Vegeta of the Android saga.[/spoiler]

[Noah]

The mere fact he compared them means they are close. No way around that.

Yes, there is. He compared from what he saw from Beerus and what he imagine his full power could be, but no one, but Whis in this series has ever seen the full extend of Beerus power. So he's the only who could make this statement valuable.

[TheDipDap1234]

[spoiler]My current list:

- Zenos
- Zenos guards
- Grand Priest
- Angels
- Jiren (FP)
- Stronger GoDs (Beerus, etc.) / SSB Vegetto
- Goku UI
- Merged Zamasu (LoS) / GoD Toppo (estimating)
- Weaker GoDs / Initial Goku UI / SSJ2 Kefla
- Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Blue KKx20 Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue KKx10 Goku / Aniraza
- Merged Zamasu (no LoS)
- SSJ Kefla / Super Saiyan Blue KK Goku
- Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta / Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black (final zenkai) / Toppo
- Super Saiyan Blue Goku / Golden Frieza
- Hit
- Dyspo (FP) / Super Saiyan Rage Trunks
- Ultimate Gohan / Android 17
- Base Kefla / Super Saiyan God Goku / Final Form Frieza / Base Goku Black
- Super Saiyan Berserk Controlled Kale / Future Zamasu
- U6 Namekkians / Super Saiyan Berserk Kale
- Super Saiyan 3 Goku / Obuni
- Stronger super saiyan 2s (Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Cabba)
- Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
- Piccolo / Present Zamasu
- Android 18
- Super saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.)
- Base saiyans (Goku, Vegeta, etc.) / Buff Buu
- Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
- Good Buu
- Final form Frost
- Wolves
- Krillin, Buff Roshi, etc.

I do think that Krillin, Roshi, etc. are comparable to the likes of Super Vegeta of the Android saga.[/spoiler]

Pretty good list but why do you think SSJ2 Cabba was stronger than SSJ2 Caulifla?

[Legion]

Kibitoshin had no idea who Beerus was until Elder Kaioshin explained, so interpreting his statement as Vegetto Blue being stronger than Beerus is a flawed logic. Which instant he ever had felt the full extent of Beerus power?

Because the statement is useless if it's wrong and it's never contradicted by the way. There's not a single thing in both the anime and manga that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power. That's just head canon.

It's the same argument people had with Beerus saying Freeza > Base Goku.

Shin doesn't know Beerus real power.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Shin is the same guy who still believe that Beerus used all his power against Goku (when he said "now i'm 100%") when actually he only used 1% of his power.

God of destruction Toppo doesn't think he could beat goku from the exhibition match and says that he's nothing to Jiren.

Jiren beats that same goku while massively suppressed. Nonsense would be saying that jirens full power is barely stronger than Belmod and weaker than Beerus for some reason. Especially when Jiren is stated to be above the hakaishin state, yet people for some reason to this day still claim that Jiren is barely stronger than Belmod and weaker than Beerus.

Toppo will have a power up. Just wait and see. The previews are always unclear, but it's obvious that Toppo will awaken his real power.

Toppo doesn't think he could beat Goku from the exhibition match, not God of destruction Toppo. Unless you guys really believe that God Toppo is a fodder compared to the current Gods or that Goku SSJB is Hakaishin level i think that it's clear that Toppo will have a power up.

Suppressed Jiren is not>>>>>>any Hakaishin. Stop wanking him.

[OLKv3]

Because the statement is useless if it's wrong and it's never contradicted by the way. There's not a single thing in both the anime and manga that says Shin doesn't know Beerus power. That's just head canon.

Head canon is what you're doing now: ignoring logic to back your point. The fact that Shin didn't even knew about the role of a God of Destruction just explains for itself that he never experienced Beerus full power.

Actually what you're doing is head canon. You're making up what ifs and possibilities to deny what's stated in the actual story.