Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:35 am

Hit stated that he couldn't get stronger in the way you're claiming and you're crutch is an incorrect translation. Nothing noteworthy. Again, prove Hit wrong.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:38 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Miracles wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:That's the entire exchange. I posted all relevant statements. Not my problem if you can't properly read the story.

According to Hit himself the only way left for him to get stronger was to advance himself and advancing himself in his own words only pertained to increasing the length of his Time skip. Prove Hit wrong, you can't.
Hit agrees with me cause he was able to damage Goku with his punch. Just like Goku stated about Hit's strength increasing as well.
Lets say he did get stronger, but that simply raises the question, how much stronger did he get?

He obviously didn't even get two times stronger then Goku because using the basic Kaio-Ken was able to completely blitz him, so just how much stronger could he have gotten?
It was never stated. Hit's power was never defined compared to Goku's. However, Goku's KK increases all his attributes.
After Hit got blitzed, Hit again powered up, Goku, even with his 10x Kaioken couldn't Blitz Hi then.
However, Hit could damage KKX10 Goku. Proving again, that his power ups increase overall strength. Not just time skip.
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Hit stated that he couldn't get stronger in the way you're claiming and you're crutch is an incorrect translation. Nothing noteworthy. Again, prove Hit wrong.
Hit stated that he couldn't get stronger by "TRANSFORMING" the same way Saiyans can. But he did power up and increased his "strength as well," stated by Goku.
He just didn't transform to do it! Please read and understand the story first.
Last edited by Miracles on Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:47 am

Absolutely irrelevant.

"To become stronger there was only one way left for me."

"Advancing myself. [...] Indeed I have now succeeded.. .. in lengthening my Time Skip to 0.2 seconds."


Advancing himself is the only way Hit at that point could get stronger according to Hit himself and that only included powering up his Time skip.

If you're going to keep quoting an incorrect translation despite being corrected then you're an even bigger idiot than I thought. Goku is talking about the same "power up" that everyone else is talking about. The only way that Hit can power up by his own admission.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 am

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Absolutely irrelevant.

"To become stronger there was only one way left for me."

"Advancing myself. [...] Indeed I have now succeeded.. .. in lengthening my Time Skip to 0.2 seconds."


Advancing himself is the only way Hit at that point could get stronger according to Hit himself and that only included powering up his Time skip.

If you're going to keep quoting an incorrect translation despite being corrected then you're an even bigger idiot than I thought. Goku is talking about the same "power up" that everyone else is talking about. The only way that Hit stated he could power up by his own admission.
Yes, Hit advanced HIMSELF and Goku proves Hit advanced HIMSELF by saying"AS EXPECTED. HIS ATTACK AFTER POWERING UP GOT ME REAL GOOD." Proving more than time skip [which is a special ability] "powered up as well." You are using ONE PART of the narration and ignoring the other to support your terribly wrong point.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:05 am

So this basically boils down to you saying that Hit increased his physical might despite Hit himself saying that he can't get stronger that way.

Then you ignore the fact that Hit himself says that he got stronger through advancing himself and only succeeded in increasing the length of his Time skip.

Then you twist Goku's statement to mean that he's talking about a completely different form of powering up than every other character including Hit himself is talking about. And you deem this as proper evidence that Hit himself got physically stronger even though he said he couldn't get stronger in that way.

That isn't even worth a rebuttal. I would tell you to watch the show again, but it seems obvious that you wouldn't comprehend it no matter how many times you watched it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:34 am

Miracles wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Absolutely irrelevant.

"To become stronger there was only one way left for me."

"Advancing myself. [...] Indeed I have now succeeded.. .. in lengthening my Time Skip to 0.2 seconds."


Advancing himself is the only way Hit at that point could get stronger according to Hit himself and that only included powering up his Time skip.

If you're going to keep quoting an incorrect translation despite being corrected then you're an even bigger idiot than I thought. Goku is talking about the same "power up" that everyone else is talking about. The only way that Hit stated he could power up by his own admission.
Yes, Hit advanced HIMSELF and Goku proves Hit advanced HIMSELF by saying"AS EXPECTED. HIS ATTACK AFTER POWERING UP GOT ME REAL GOOD." Proving more than time skip [which is a special ability] "powered up as well." You are using ONE PART of the narration and ignoring the other to support your terribly wrong point.
TBH, I don't think Hit got that much stronger immediately after increasing his time-skip, however, I think his powered up attacks can be explained using language that has become a lot more common place in this arc, namely the words "sharp" and "heavy". I think that by improving his time-skip he was able to land attacks that were sharper and heavier than ones he landed on Goku when it was merely 0.1 seconds. So Hit advancing his technique of the time-skip allows him to land sharper more refined attacks.

This goes in line with Goku's statement of Hit's attacks powering up, or after powering up getting him real good, while also going along with the idea that Hits improvement isn't exactly him just raising his ki, as per the comments of Vados and Whis.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:05 am

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Hit didn't increase his raw might and neither did Dyspo. That much is blatantly obvious. It was stated by multiple characters that Hit didn't get physically stronger and nothing in the story in it's proper context portrays Dyspo in Super Maximum Light Speed mode as stronger than before, just faster.
Base Dyspo Vs golden freeza
Image
Image
High speed Dyspo Vs golden freeza
Image
Image
Dyspo strength damn well increase obvious as light an day
That's pretty indicative of the force behind it on top of the fact Dyspo's already demonstrated he can block/parry Golden Freeza's punches in this form upon initial activation
To say he didn't get any stronger is ludicrous where he was capable of trading blows with gohan in the cage

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:30 am

A simple case of strength augmented by speed. Dyspo became a lot faster so his punches had more force. Nothing in the story entertains the idea of Dyspo getting physically stronger.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:09 am

pacz360 wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Hit didn't increase his raw might and neither did Dyspo. That much is blatantly obvious. It was stated by multiple characters that Hit didn't get physically stronger and nothing in the story in it's proper context portrays Dyspo in Super Maximum Light Speed mode as stronger than before, just faster.
Base Dyspo Vs golden freeza
Image
Image
High speed Dyspo Vs golden freeza
Image
Image
Dyspo strength damn well increase obvious as light an day
That's pretty indicative of the force behind it on top of the fact Dyspo's already demonstrated he can block/parry Golden Freeza's punches in this form upon initial activation
To say he didn't get any stronger is ludicrous where he was capable of trading blows with gohan in the cage
The truth!.:thumbup:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:So this basically boils down to you saying that Hit increased his physical might despite Hit himself saying that he can't get stronger that way.

Then you ignore the fact that Hit himself says that he got stronger through advancing himself and only succeeded in increasing the length of his Time skip.

Then you twist Goku's statement to mean that he's talking about a completely different form of powering up than every other character including Hit himself is talking about. And you deem this as proper evidence that Hit himself got physically stronger even though he said he couldn't get stronger in that way.

That isn't even worth a rebuttal. I would tell you to watch the show again, but it seems obvious that you wouldn't comprehend it no matter how many times you watched it.
I never stated such things. You are simply shadow boxing! I clearly agree that Hit's time skip increased as well. I clearly agree Hit "can't power up by TRANSFORMATION" like the Saiyans. But simply advanced HIMSELF just like Goku stated, Hit's punch got him good "AFTER powering up!" without transforming! Meaning his strength increased from his boost. Vegeta CONFIRMS this, saying Hit powers up "in the middle of battle like the Saiyans." Even tho he can't transform like the Saiyans. Saiyans increase overall battle power just like Hit but they do it through transformations. You ignored all this canon fact.
JazzMazz wrote:TBH, I don't think Hit got that much stronger immediately after increasing his time-skip, however, I think his powered up attacks can be explained using language that has become a lot more common place in this arc, namely the words "sharp" and "heavy". I think that by improving his time-skip he was able to land attacks that were sharper and heavier than ones he landed on Goku when it was merely 0.1 seconds. So Hit advancing his technique of the time-skip allows him to land sharper more refined attacks.

This goes in line with Goku's statement of Hit's attacks powering up, or after powering up getting him real good, while also going along with the idea that Hits improvement isn't exactly him just raising his ki, as per the comments of Vados and Whis.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Vados and Whis stated Hit merely "mimicked" the way Goku powered up but Hit stated he realized he couldn't transform to get stronger like them. He didn't know this because he never needed to power up before. So he figured out the only way for him to get stronger was to improve and Vegeta confirms Goku's analysis of Hit's strength increasing as well when Hit's time skip improved. Vegeta stated Hit powered up in the middle of battl juste like the Saiyans. Saiyans increase overall battle power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:15 am

pacz360 wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Hit didn't increase his raw might and neither did Dyspo. That much is blatantly obvious. It was stated by multiple characters that Hit didn't get physically stronger and nothing in the story in it's proper context portrays Dyspo in Super Maximum Light Speed mode as stronger than before, just faster.
Base Dyspo Vs golden freeza
[spoiler]Image
Image
High speed Dyspo Vs golden freeza
Image
Image[/spoiler]
Dyspo strength damn well increase obvious as light an day
That's pretty indicative of the force behind it on top of the fact Dyspo's already demonstrated he can block/parry Golden Freeza's punches in this form upon initial activation
To say he didn't get any stronger is ludicrous where he was capable of trading blows with gohan in the cage
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:A simple case of strength augmented by speed. Dyspo became a lot faster so his punches had more force. Nothing in the story entertains the idea of Dyspo getting physically stronger.
^what he said. Force is literally speed x mass, so if Dyspo is moving faster he hits harder, it doesn't mean his raw power/DC/lifting strength went up. He just has far more momentum behind his strikes.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SayianBeyondGod » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:22 am

SayianBeyondGod wrote:
ZombieVito wrote:Anyway I made a list last night, it's not final and can change very easily.

Feedback is very welcomed.

Infinite Tier

Zeno/Future Zeno
Infinite Zamasu

Beyond Angel Tier

Grand Priest

Angel Tier

Vados
Whis
Angels

God of Destruction Tier

Jiren
Zeno's Attendants
Quitela
Beerus
Belmod
Vegetto Blue
SSI Future Trunks [Genkidama Sword]
Merged Zamasu [Corrupted]
Champa
God of Destructions
Toppo [God of Destruction]

Beyond Blue Tier

UIO Goku
SS2 Kefla
SS Kefla
SSB2 Vegeta
SSB Goku [Kaioken x20]
SSB Goku [Kaioken x10]
Merged Zamasu [Halo]
Merged Zamasu

Blue Tier

Anilaza
SSB Goku [Kaioken]
Koichiarator
SSB Vegeta/Toppo
SSB Goku/ Freeza [Golden form]/SSR Goku Black
SSI Future Trunks
Gohan [Ultimate form]
Hit
17
Pirina
Saonel

God Tier

SSG Goku/Goku Black
Vegetto
Kefla
Kale [Mastered SS Bersek]


SS3 Tier

SS3 Goku
Kale [Controlled SS Bersek]
Obuni
Kale [SS Bersek]

SS2 Tier

Piccolo
SS2 Vegeta
SS2 Goku
SS2 Future Trunks
SS2 Caulifla
SS2 Gohan
SS2 Cabba
Kahseral
Zamasu
Rubalt

SS Tier

Maji Kayo
Monna
Kunshi
SS Vegeta
SS Goku
SS Future Trunks
SS Caulifla
SS Gohan
SS Cabba
Damon
Katopesla [Ultimate mode]
Frost
Auta Magetta
Gamisaras

Base Tier

Kettol
Narirama
Vegeta
Goku/Freeza
Caulifla
Future Trunks
Dyspo
Good Boo [Slim form]
Bergamo
Bollarator
Gohan
Koitsukai
Cabba
Panchia
SS3 Gotenks
18
Ribrianne
Viara
Su Roas
Cocotte
Sanka KU
Tupper
Zoiray
Jimeze
Good Boo
Napapa
Basil
Nink
Paparoni
Zirloin
Lavender
Zarbuto
Methiop
Rabanra
Chappil
Kale
Hyssop
Murichim
Hop
Katopesla
Nigrisshi
Vuon
Botamo
Ginyu [Tagoma]
Tagoma

Below Base Tier

Ganos
Hermila
Majora
Dercori
Shosa
Comfrey
Kuririn
Roshi [Max Power]
The Preecho
Tenshinhan
Roshi
Jirasen
Caway
Lilibeu
Murisam
Jium
Shisami
Oregano
Prum
Doctor Rotta
Jilcol
Roselle
Sorrel
Shantza
Besides what wolflonnie said which I can vouch for, especially with Kefla being too high. Why is Caulifa above Gohan? She as a SSJ2 struggled agasint fatigue base Goku with final form Frieza confident enough to take her on. Gohan on the other hand was taking on fullpower SSJ2 Goku as a SSJ2 fine. Also why is mastered Berserk Kale God Tier, she struggling against fatigue SSJ2 and was shocked by SSJ3 power. I don't think struggling to lift fatigue SSG casual ki blast mean much as weaker opponent are capable of deflecting stronger opponent ki blast throughout the series just look at base Vegeta vs Golden Frieza.
Just to correct myself I mean base Gohan rivalling a full power base Goku fine prior to the tournment hence they would rival eachother in SSJ or SSJ2.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Raphael_Z » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:10 am

I think that Prina and Sanoel are somewhere between SSJ3 and God Level (same with Gohan and 17), definitely not Blue Level. God Goku could have easily taken out BOTH of them at the same time and Piccolo (who is somewhere around SSJ2 Level) was able to keep up equally against them.

Dyspo, Toppo, Jiren, Hit, SSJ2 Kefla and the 2 Robot Fusions are the only enemies in the TOP that can be considered Blue Level (and above) in my opinion, the rest were just appetizers.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:20 am

Raphael_Z wrote:I think that Prina and Sanoel are somewhere between SSJ3 and God Level (same with Gohan and 17), definitely not Blue Level. God Goku could have easily taken out BOTH of them at the same time and Piccolo (who is somewhere around SSJ2 Level) was able to keep up equally against them.

Dyspo, Toppo, Jiren, Hit, SSJ2 Kefla and the 2 Robot Fusions are the only enemies in the TOP that can be considered Blue Level (and above) in my opinion, the rest were just appetizers.
I would say that they are both roughly SS2 Goku level(keep in mind, as a SS2 Goku was able to fight Ultimate Gohan fairly evenly, so it seems appropriate to place them their), as for how they matched up against Piccolo, they clearly had an advantage over him in terms of raw power the entire fight.

I think how Piccolo compares to them is best demonstrated were Pirina tanks Piccolo's hellzone grenade without breaking a sweat.
Miracles wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:TBH, I don't think Hit got that much stronger immediately after increasing his time-skip, however, I think his powered up attacks can be explained using language that has become a lot more common place in this arc, namely the words "sharp" and "heavy". I think that by improving his time-skip he was able to land attacks that were sharper and heavier than ones he landed on Goku when it was merely 0.1 seconds. So Hit advancing his technique of the time-skip allows him to land sharper more refined attacks.

This goes in line with Goku's statement of Hit's attacks powering up, or after powering up getting him real good, while also going along with the idea that Hits improvement isn't exactly him just raising his ki, as per the comments of Vados and Whis.

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Vados and Whis stated Hit merely "mimicked" the way Goku powered up but Hit stated he realized he couldn't transform to get stronger like them. He didn't know this because he never needed to power up before. So he figured out the only way for him to get stronger was to improve and Vegeta confirms Goku's analysis of Hit's strength increasing as well when Hit's time skip improved. Vegeta stated Hit powered up in the middle of battl juste like the Saiyans. Saiyans increase overall battle power.
As I said earlier, I don't think necessarily grew massively stronger in all aspects when he increased his time-skip, hell even throughout the prelude fight leading up to him using his increased time-skip, Goku notes Hit still hadn't gotten any stronger, and even Whis and Vados confirmed that Hit hadn't necessarily powered in the more convential sense. Strength is and power is very broad term that can apply to all manner of things, while its true that Hit did indeed power-up his attacks using his time-skip(in the sense they were sharper and more refined), I don't necessarily think he increased his battle power to do so(and there really isn't anything to suggest that he increased battle power either).

Also, if he did increase his battle power to such a degree where a single blow could fell Blue Goku, who was vastly more physically powerful, than how the hell was his so completely outmatched that was only twice as strong as the one he floored effortlessly? It just raises far too many questions.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:57 am

JazzMazz wrote:As I said earlier, I don't think necessarily grew massively stronger in all aspects when he increased his time-skip, hell even throughout the prelude fight leading up to him using his increased time-skip, Goku notes Hit still hadn't gotten any stronger, and even Whis and Vados confirmed that Hit hadn't necessarily powered in the more convential sense. Strength is and power is very broad term that can apply to all manner of things, while its true that Hit did indeed power-up his attacks using his time-skip(in the sense they were sharper and more refined), I don't necessarily think he increased his battle power to do so(and there really isn't anything to suggest that he increased battle power either).

Also, if he did increase his battle power to such a degree where a single blow could fell Blue Goku, who was vastly more physically powerful, than how the hell was his so completely outmatched that was only twice as strong as the one he floored effortlessly? It just raises far too many questions.
Cause Hit's battle power increased. It's the only way one can damage his opponent in Dragonball. Your Ki has to be higher and this is why Hit's time skip worked again on Goku cause his overall battle power was higher. It was never stated that his attacks are sharper [which doesn't pertain to strength] because of his time skip.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:20 am

Miracles wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:As I said earlier, I don't think necessarily grew massively stronger in all aspects when he increased his time-skip, hell even throughout the prelude fight leading up to him using his increased time-skip, Goku notes Hit still hadn't gotten any stronger, and even Whis and Vados confirmed that Hit hadn't necessarily powered in the more convential sense. Strength is and power is very broad term that can apply to all manner of things, while its true that Hit did indeed power-up his attacks using his time-skip(in the sense they were sharper and more refined), I don't necessarily think he increased his battle power to do so(and there really isn't anything to suggest that he increased battle power either).

Also, if he did increase his battle power to such a degree where a single blow could fell Blue Goku, who was vastly more physically powerful, than how the hell was his so completely outmatched that was only twice as strong as the one he floored effortlessly? It just raises far too many questions.
Cause Hit's battle power increased. It's the only way one can damage his opponent in Dragonball. Your Ki has to be higher and this is why Hit's time skip worked again on Goku cause his overall battle power was higher. It was never stated that his attacks are sharper [which doesn't pertain to strength] because of his time skip.
Hits power, though comparable to Blue Goku's its power is not greater by any means or shown to be greater through out any of his confrontations with Gokiu. Hit overcomes massive differences in power through pin-point strikes to vital areas in order to effectively incapictate his opponents, thats why he says in his first fight with Goku "It doesn't matter how strong you are. If I keep hitting you in your vital area's you'll die."

Also, Hits time-skip, never didn't work on Goku while he was Blue in the anime, it was merely that Goku was able to counter it by accurately anticipating his movements. In order to not be eventually worn down and defeated by the physically more powerful Blue, that was now countering his time-skip, Hit increased his time-skip and refined his strike without necessarily raising his overall battle-power that much higher than it was previously.

Also, I said sharpness and heaviness because its something that I've seen mentioned in more and more dialogue relating to the power of someone's attack, and I think it adequately illustrates my point about Hit advancing himself in terms of martial arts skills(which in turn translates to being able to deal more damage).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:29 am

So if Super Saiyan Royale Blue does beat God of Destruction Toppo. Are we gonna start thinking he'd more powerful than Super Saiyan Blue Vegito/

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheGreatSaiyaman » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:31 am

Here's some wishful thinking, could 17 or Gohan beat Golden Frieza individually? I say 17 could because considering he didn't get his butt whooped by G.o.D Toppo and Gohan seemed fairly sure, albeit in a quick statement, that he could fight Golden Frieza + both of them did fight SSB Goku...

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by JazzMazz » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:34 am

TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:Here's some wishful thinking, could 17 or Gohan beat Golden Frieza individually? I say 17 could because considering he didn't get his butt whooped by G.o.D Toppo and Gohan seemed fairly sure, albeit in a quick statement, that he could fight Golden Frieza + both of them did fight SSB Goku...
No, I wouldn't say so. They make it explicitly clear at least for 17, that Goku probably would have beaten him in their little sparring match if they had bothered to continue it.

As for Gohan, besides a couple of punches, there is nothing really to suggest he would fair that much better than 17 against a full power SSB, espicially considering the amount of trouble he had with merely SS2.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheDipDap1234 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:53 am

ZombieVito wrote: - Piccolo strangled a SS2 Gohan that fought on even grounds with Goku in E75.
- Maybe I should bump 18 and Ribrianne over Gotenks but they are base tier. Zirloin gained all of RIbrianne's power and couldn't even land a hit on an exhausted Goku.
- While Piccolo did say Gamisaras was nothing, he did beat 18 up. Even while fighting the invisible man, Yamcha could still evade and even hit him. 18 was completely helpless.
He did but in the ToP he did nothing to suggest he's at that level. Ribrianne also fought evenly with SSJ Vegeta while laughing, but later on she couldn't defeat his base form. If you think Piccolo is SSJ2 level because of that, then you should also think Ribrianne is SSJ level because of her first fight with Vegeta.
Ribrianne had 2 other transformations, Zirlion did not.
18 wasn't damaged at all by his attacks though.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:05 am

TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:Here's some wishful thinking, could 17 or Gohan beat Golden Frieza individually? I say 17 could because considering he didn't get his butt whooped by G.o.D Toppo and Gohan seemed fairly sure, albeit in a quick statement, that he could fight Golden Frieza + both of them did fight SSB Goku...
No, Both 17 and Gohan are weaker than Base Toppo ( no red aura) powerwise. Andriod 17 and Gohan are blue tier, but they're not equal to a fully powered SSB Goku ( Pre-UI) who kicked this Toppo's ass in hand to hand and Frieza was said to be evenly matched with SSB Goku( Pre-UI). The only reason 17 didn't get his ass whooped was because he didn't fight God Toppo head on and played smart. Frieza was just stupid and too arrogant

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