Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:32 am

Some preview images have come out.

It looks as though Vegeta's doing another super-powerful Final Flash, though it's also possible he's doing something else. The telltale yellow glow likely means a Final Flash, though.

Goku is also seen in his base form in one of the preview images and in a small crater in a piece of the Kachi Katchin, so he either powered down or, more likely, was knocked out of SSB/KK.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:44 am

Miracles wrote:
Hugo Boss wrote:Just for clarification, the exchange from Goku that I wrote is exactly what is written in the Crunchyroll English subs, which is a legal streaming service that I pay from my pockets since 2013. My source here. If there is another official service or even a different perspective from people that are actually Japanese speakers, I will gladly support them as well.

Also, the relevant quotes for context and reference:
Vegeta: "So that yelling was a trigger to power up after all?"
Whis: "No."
Vados: "[...] He decided to copy Goku san's method."
Hit: "I can't power up by transforming like you Saiyans. To become stronger there was only one way left for me."
Kuririn: "And that one way was.."
Piccolo: "To advance himself!"
Vegeta: "What?"
Piccolo: "Hit used this short time to simply advance himself!"
Hit: "Advancing myself. [...] Indeed I have now succeeded.. .. in lengthening my Time Skip to 0.2 seconds."
Kuririn: "He lengthened his Time Skip?!"
Goku: "As expected. His attack after powering up got me real good. The most I can take is another few hits... But a few hits are all I need. The world beyond 0.2 seconds... is not somewhere I can't reach. (misreading the situation)"
Vegeta: "Powering up during battle is the Saiyans' specialty. There is no one who could outdo us in our speed of advancing ourselves!".

So, first Hit powered up, then he didn't, but wait he did.. hmm what exactly he did? In a nutshell, it's a power up, yet not a power up. It seems very clear to me that Time Skip's increased length is the reason of his advance.
"AS EXPECTED His attack "AFTER" powering up "GOT ME REAL GOOD."
Thank you, you proved my point, that Hit's STRENGTH increased as well after powering up.
His strength increase was even "EXPECTED," proving my point even more, power ups naturally increase overall power.:clap:
Context is important. By Goku's words, he was aiming to surpass the world of 0.2 seconds. But if we are to include Time Skip or Super Maximum Light Speed in overall prowess, that's fine.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by pacz360 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:02 pm

dragon boss z wrote:
pacz360 wrote:
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Hit didn't increase his raw might and neither did Dyspo. That much is blatantly obvious. It was stated by multiple characters that Hit didn't get physically stronger and nothing in the story in it's proper context portrays Dyspo in Super Maximum Light Speed mode as stronger than before, just faster.
Base Dyspo Vs golden freeza
[spoiler]Image
Image
High speed Dyspo Vs golden freeza
Image
Image[/spoiler]
Dyspo strength damn well increase obvious as light an day
That's pretty indicative of the force behind it on top of the fact Dyspo's already demonstrated he can block/parry Golden Freeza's punches in this form upon initial activation
To say he didn't get any stronger is ludicrous where he was capable of trading blows with gohan in the cage
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:A simple case of strength augmented by speed. Dyspo became a lot faster so his punches had more force. Nothing in the story entertains the idea of Dyspo getting physically stronger.
^what he said. Force is literally speed x mass, so if Dyspo is moving faster he hits harder, it doesn't mean his raw power/DC/lifting strength went up. He just has far more momentum behind his strikes.
Spare me that crap nthis is db for dyspo to d shit to freeza his strength had to increase otherwise a punch from him wouldn't had freeza go blood shot
JazzMazz wrote:
TheGreatSaiyaman wrote:Here's some wishful thinking, could 17 or Gohan beat Golden Frieza individually? I say 17 could because considering he didn't get his butt whooped by G.o.D Toppo and Gohan seemed fairly sure, albeit in a quick statement, that he could fight Golden Frieza + both of them did fight SSB Goku...
No, I wouldn't say so. They make it explicitly clear at least for 17, that Goku probably would have beaten him in their little sparring match if they had bothered to continue it.

As for Gohan, besides a couple of punches, there is nothing really to suggest he would fair that much better than 17 against a full power SSB, espicially considering the amount of trouble he had with merely SS2.
wrong gohan was sandbagging against ssj2 Goku he stated to goku when he went blue he was going to show him his full strength meaning wasnt going all out

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:57 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Some preview images have come out.

It looks as though Vegeta's doing another super-powerful Final Flash, though it's also possible he's doing something else. The telltale yellow glow likely means a Final Flash, though.

Goku is also seen in his base form in one of the preview images and in a small crater in a piece of the Kachi Katchin, so he either powered down or, more likely, was knocked out of SSB/KK.
And toppo seems to be doing a sphere of destruction (something we have only seen once in the anime)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:50 pm

TheDipDap1234 wrote:
ZombieVito wrote: - Piccolo strangled a SS2 Gohan that fought on even grounds with Goku in E75.
- Maybe I should bump 18 and Ribrianne over Gotenks but they are base tier. Zirloin gained all of RIbrianne's power and couldn't even land a hit on an exhausted Goku.
- While Piccolo did say Gamisaras was nothing, he did beat 18 up. Even while fighting the invisible man, Yamcha could still evade and even hit him. 18 was completely helpless.
He did but in the ToP he did nothing to suggest he's at that level. Ribrianne also fought evenly with SSJ Vegeta while laughing, but later on she couldn't defeat his base form. If you think Piccolo is SSJ2 level because of that, then you should also think Ribrianne is SSJ level because of her first fight with Vegeta.
Ribrianne had 2 other transformations, Zirlion did not.
18 wasn't damaged at all by his attacks though.
Nothing indicates he's base tier either and it's less ridicuolous for his Makankosappo to hurt Blue tier characters if he's SS2 tier.

Vegeta was obviously holding back since as you said, he later beat her in base. I also don't think her transformations were that big of a boost.

18 should have been able to do something like Yamcha did if she was stronger though. She was completely helpless and about to get ringed out.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:16 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:Context is important. By Goku's words, he was aiming to surpass the world of 0.2 seconds. But if we are to include Time Skip or Super Maximum Light Speed in overall prowess, that's fine.
Yes it is overall prowess. That's why Goku stated since Hit's strength increased "as well" or "as expected" he could try and surpass time skips 0.2 sec length by enduring Hit's attacks. BUT he said he could ONLY endure a FEW, due to Hit's new found strength after powering up! Yes, Context is important.
JazzMazz wrote:Hits power, though comparable to Blue Goku's its power is not greater by any means or shown to be greater through out any of his confrontations with Gokiu. Hit overcomes massive differences in power through pin-point strikes to vital areas in order to effectively incapictate his opponents, thats why he says in his first fight with Goku "It doesn't matter how strong you are. If I keep hitting you in your vital area's you'll die."

Also, Hits time-skip, never didn't work on Goku while he was Blue in the anime, it was merely that Goku was able to counter it by accurately anticipating his movements. In order to not be eventually worn down and defeated by the physically more powerful Blue, that was now countering his time-skip, Hit increased his time-skip and refined his strike without necessarily raising his overall battle-power that much higher than it was previously.

Also, I said sharpness and heaviness because its something that I've seen mentioned in more and more dialogue relating to the power of someone's attack, and I think it adequately illustrates my point about Hit advancing himself in terms of martial arts skills(which in turn translates to being able to deal more damage).
No "heavy" punches refer to strength. Hit even mentions this when he faces against Jiren. "These are the heavy attacks Goku took!" The extra stuff is fanfic.
Hit's power was shown to be GREATER than Goku's when he put him on the floor with a single gut punch, no vital spots.
In the exchange before, Hit wasn't doing any damage to Goku. That's why Goku had to POWER UP to get the power advantage again.
Last edited by Miracles on Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:30 pm

pacz360 wrote: Spare me that crap nthis is db for dyspo to d shit to freeza his strength had to increase otherwise a punch from him wouldn't had freeza go blood shot
First off this is dragon ball Super where Roshi can push back final form Frost.

Second off I just told you force is mass x speed. If he is moving faster he will hit much harder. There isn't such a thin as a punch having a power level, it just has a level of force behind it. And Dypo increased the level of force behind his punch with speed. This is simple physics.

And even in DBZ Cell made it very clear that even though buff Trunks had a higher power he had no chance because Cell was much faster. So even the manga itself tells you how important speed is. You seem to just have this out look that power means everything when it clearly doesn't, especially in Super.

It's possible for Dyspo's "power" to have gone up as well, but there is no evidence of this. There is absolutely no evidence that his maximum light speed mode made his ki attacks stronger.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Freeza9000 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:28 pm

[spoiler]Talk about a waste[/spoiler]

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:29 pm

- #17 and Hakaishin Toppo get into a beam struggle... that last about 3 seconds before Hakaishin Toppo's Hakai Ball overwhelms #17
- Hakaishin Toppo has #17 on the run with a barrage of Justice Flash(es)
- Freeza emerges and makes the save by blasting #17 away from where Hakaishin Toppo was going hit him with a huge Ki ball
- Freeza traps Hakaishin Toppo is sphere of energy and tries to use his telekinesis to bury Hakaishin Toppo with rubble and debris. It doesn't work.
- Elsewhere, Goku and Vegeta battle Jiren... and make no real progress.
- Hakaishin Toppo turns his attention to Beyond SSJB Vegeta.
- Hakaishin Toppo wipes the floor with Beyond SSJB Vegeta
- With Beyond SSJB Vegeta on the edge, Vegeta gains a second wind and starts kicking Hakaishin Toppo's ass.
- Beyond SSJB Vegeta and Hakaishin Toppo start powering up and their aura's of energy from powering up clash with each other...
- ...But Vegeta's energy overwhelms Hakaishin Toppo's and he eliminates him in the process through sheer force of powering up to a great extent.

NEP shows Goku, Vegeta and #17 fighting Toppo.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:30 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:[spoiler]Talk about a waste[/spoiler]
[spoiler]On the bright side, Vegeta, Freeza, and No. 17 are doing really great. I thought the Top battle would bore me, but I was actually a little intrigued.[/spoiler]
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:41 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:- #17 and Hakaishin Toppo get into a beam struggle... that last about 3 seconds before Hakaishin Toppo's Hakai Ball overwhelms #17
- Hakaishin Toppo has #17 on the run with a barrage of Justice Flash(es)
- Freeza emerges and makes the save by blasting #17 away from where Hakaishin Toppo was going hit him with a huge Ki ball
- Freeza traps Hakaishin Toppo is sphere of energy and tries to use his telekinesis to bury Hakaishin Toppo with rubble and debris. It doesn't work.
- Elsewhere, Goku and Vegeta battle Jiren... and make no real progress.
- Hakaishin Toppo turns his attention to Beyond SSJB Vegeta.
- Hakaishin Toppo wipes the floor with Beyond SSJB Vegeta
- With Beyond SSJB Vegeta on the edge, Vegeta gains a second wind and starts kicking Hakaishin Toppo's ass.
- Beyond SSJB Vegeta and Hakaishin Toppo start powering up and their aura's of energy from powering up clash with each other...
- ...But Vegeta's energy overwhelms Hakaishin Toppo's and he eliminates him in the process through sheer force of powering up to a great extent.

NEP shows Goku, Vegeta and #17 fighting Toppo.
Wow, you are very wrong on vegeta over whelming toppo by powering up. Vegeta used the final explosion on toppo, as he couldn’t do it any other way. Vegeta barely survived

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:51 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:- #17 and Hakaishin Toppo get into a beam struggle... that last about 3 seconds before Hakaishin Toppo's Hakai Ball overwhelms #17
- Hakaishin Toppo has #17 on the run with a barrage of Justice Flash(es)
- Freeza emerges and makes the save by blasting #17 away from where Hakaishin Toppo was going hit him with a huge Ki ball
- Freeza traps Hakaishin Toppo is sphere of energy and tries to use his telekinesis to bury Hakaishin Toppo with rubble and debris. It doesn't work.
- Elsewhere, Goku and Vegeta battle Jiren... and make no real progress.
- Hakaishin Toppo turns his attention to Beyond SSJB Vegeta.
- Hakaishin Toppo wipes the floor with Beyond SSJB Vegeta
- With Beyond SSJB Vegeta on the edge, Vegeta gains a second wind and starts kicking Hakaishin Toppo's ass.
- Beyond SSJB Vegeta and Hakaishin Toppo start powering up and their aura's of energy from powering up clash with each other...
- ...But Vegeta's energy overwhelms Hakaishin Toppo's and he eliminates him in the process through sheer force of powering up to a great extent.

NEP shows Goku, Vegeta and #17 fighting Toppo.
Wow, you are very wrong on vegeta over whelming toppo by powering up. Vegeta used the final explosion on toppo, as he couldn’t do it any other way. Vegeta barely survived
Just double checked and you're right. Vegeta did try to blow himself up. My bad. I did look like Vegeta was powering up and I didn't think Vegeta would be dumb enough to try and kill himself.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:29 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:- #17 and Hakaishin Toppo get into a beam struggle... that last about 3 seconds before Hakaishin Toppo's Hakai Ball overwhelms #17
- Hakaishin Toppo has #17 on the run with a barrage of Justice Flash(es)
- Freeza emerges and makes the save by blasting #17 away from where Hakaishin Toppo was going hit him with a huge Ki ball
- Freeza traps Hakaishin Toppo is sphere of energy and tries to use his telekinesis to bury Hakaishin Toppo with rubble and debris. It doesn't work.
- Elsewhere, Goku and Vegeta battle Jiren... and make no real progress.
- Hakaishin Toppo turns his attention to Beyond SSJB Vegeta.
- Hakaishin Toppo wipes the floor with Beyond SSJB Vegeta
- With Beyond SSJB Vegeta on the edge, Vegeta gains a second wind and starts kicking Hakaishin Toppo's ass.
- Beyond SSJB Vegeta and Hakaishin Toppo start powering up and their aura's of energy from powering up clash with each other...
- ...But Vegeta's energy overwhelms Hakaishin Toppo's and he eliminates him in the process through sheer force of powering up to a great extent.

NEP shows Goku, Vegeta and #17 fighting Toppo.
Wow, you are very wrong on vegeta over whelming toppo by powering up. Vegeta used the final explosion on toppo, as he couldn’t do it any other way. Vegeta barely survived
Just double checked and you're right. Vegeta did try to blow himself up. My bad. I did look like Vegeta was powering up and I didn't think Vegeta would be dumb enough to try and kill himself.
According to Herms, Toppo's Hakai was not able to completely disintegrate all the energy Vegeta was releasing.

So in a way, Vegeta overcame Toppo's Hakai

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:48 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Wow, you are very wrong on vegeta over whelming toppo by powering up. Vegeta used the final explosion on toppo, as he couldn’t do it any other way. Vegeta barely survived
Just double checked and you're right. Vegeta did try to blow himself up. My bad. I did look like Vegeta was powering up and I didn't think Vegeta would be dumb enough to try and kill himself.
According to Herms, Toppo's Hakai was not able to completely disintegrate all the energy Vegeta was releasing.

So in a way, Vegeta overcame Toppo's Hakai
And it seems that vegeta is in a level where he can survive self destructing attacks

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:22 pm

So once again, the events of the exhibition match are proven true. Toppo wasn't sure if he could beat Goku.

SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku=Beyond Blue Vegeta

Goku during the exhibition match would've overcame Hakaishin Toppo with Kaioken. Goku and Vegeta are capable of beating a God of Destruction, the former even without Ultra Instinct.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:33 pm

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:So once again, the events of the exhibition match are proven true. Toppo wasn't sure if he could beat Goku.

SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku=Beyond Blue Vegeta

Goku during the exhibition match would've overcame Hakaishin Toppo with Kaioken. Goku and Vegeta are capable of beating a God of Destruction, the former even without Ultra Instinct.
Toppo did not know about the Kaioken x20. Everything indicates that Goku apparently used only the normal Kaioken against him,

I believe that at the moment '' Hakaishin mode '' simply had not been created. And so Toppo did not think he would beat Goku.
The power that Toppo showed on EP 125 was on a whole different level from anything we had seen before.
I do not believe Goku would be able to beat this. Even Vegeta at the beginning of the EP was being defeated

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:41 pm

So what if Toppo didn't know about it. The rest is speculation and that Goku is still comparable to Vegeta, whom is above Hakaishin Toppo.

After Vegeta gets serious he beats Toppo and only needs the Final Explosion to negate the Hakai energy.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Legion » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:57 pm

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:So once again, the events of the exhibition match are proven true. Toppo wasn't sure if he could beat Goku.

SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku=Beyond Blue Vegeta

Goku during the exhibition match would've overcame Hakaishin Toppo with Kaioken. Goku and Vegeta are capable of beating a God of Destruction, the former even without Ultra Instinct.
You really can't be serious.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Toppo was stated to be no different from a God of Destruction and he lost to Beyond Blue Vegeta whom is only shown to be comparable to SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku. Yes, SSB Kaiokenx20 Goku would overcome God of Destruction Toppo just like Vegeta did.

That and this episode makes something else completely clear, which should've already been common sense. A God of Destruction level character lost to Vegeta whom is a fly compared to suppressed Jiren. Thus even suppressed Jiren is inconceivably higher than God of Destruction level.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:12 pm

So if Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta is stronger than God of Destruction Toppo.....then would Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x20 be stronger as well? Then again Vegeta was losing at first, did he actually power up or did he just resolve himself?

Is Super Saiyan Royal Blue Vegeta stronger than Ultra Instinct Goku? That would seem unlikely so does that mean that Ultra Instinct Goku and also Super Saiyan 2 Kefla are above God of Destruction level?

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