Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Kenneth La Torre
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:55 pm

So where do people put jiren now, considering that he is still well above an Ultra Instinct omen goku, who in 128 was stated to be in touch with the attack portion of UI now?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:31 am

The Monkey King wrote:Anyone care to explain why Jiren was unable to finger flick 2 exhausted base saiyans into crippled comas?
I asked he same thing but...Plot.
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:So, what are people's thoughts on the emphasis on the strength of one's blows and the (in)ability to effectively strike with a solid hit on one's opponent that has strength behind it?

For example, when Goku awakened the Ultra Instinct against Kefla, his unconscious evasion was more polished than ever before, but his blows had no impact to them and he had to resort to charging up a powerful Kamehameha; against Jiren in the latest episode, he landed a solid hit that had a lot of force behind it, truly knocking the wind out of the Pride Trooper and actually drawing saliva from his mouth when NOTHING ELSE had done so up to this point.
It's exactly what we discussed last time about Dragonball's staple story point, being balanced in power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:24 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:So where do people put jiren now, considering that he is still well above an Ultra Instinct omen goku, who in 128 was stated to be in touch with the attack portion of UI now?
Well above the GoDs, he may even be able to 1v12.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:06 am

TheUltimateNinja wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:So where do people put jiren now, considering that he is still well above an Ultra Instinct omen goku, who in 128 was stated to be in touch with the attack portion of UI now?
Well above the GoDs, he may even be able to 1v12.
I certainly put him above the G.o.Ds, but I’m not sure he can handle more than just 1 at a time, unless goku is stated to be on the level of the angels, and jiren does well agains Mastered Ui goku

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Legion » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:37 am

We'll never know because we'll never see the Gods full power and because Toei power scaling are terrible. We need some statements from Toriyama.

Ah, of course MUI Goku is not Angel level and Jiren can't fight 12 Gods alone. This is just wank.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by MagmonKai » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:16 am

I just really want to know where Goku stands in relation to Beerus as of 129. The fact that this will be unresolved kills me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:12 pm

MagmonKai wrote:I just really want to know where Goku stands in relation to Beerus as of 129. The fact that this will be unresolved kills me.
Pretty sure it won’t be unresolved. They already threw the statement that jiren is perhaps above hakaishin level. So I have no doubt that they will mention if goku has also surpassed hakaishin level.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:32 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
MagmonKai wrote:I just really want to know where Goku stands in relation to Beerus as of 129. The fact that this will be unresolved kills me.
Pretty sure it won’t be unresolved. They already threw the statement that jiren is perhaps above hakaishin level. So I have no doubt that they will mention if goku has also surpassed hakaishin level.
Maybe. The anime has been non-committal so far with giving definitive answers, but I agree it could be that they are doing this only reveal it at tge end like how Toppo being a GoD candidate wasn't revealed until it became relevant in the story.
This stands in contrast with the manga flat out revealing Toppo's position and Jiren being stronger than Belmod before the tournament even begins.

I sure do hope we get a definitive answer.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:06 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
MagmonKai wrote:I just really want to know where Goku stands in relation to Beerus as of 129. The fact that this will be unresolved kills me.
Pretty sure it won’t be unresolved. They already threw the statement that jiren is perhaps above hakaishin level. So I have no doubt that they will mention if goku has also surpassed hakaishin level.
Maybe. The anime has been non-committal so far with giving definitive answers, but I agree it could be that they are doing this only reveal it at tge end like how Toppo being a GoD candidate wasn't revealed until it became relevant in the story.
This stands in contrast with the manga flat out revealing Toppo's position and Jiren being stronger than Belmod before the tournament even begins.

I sure do hope we get a definitive answer.
If the anime doesn’t, the manga will for sure tell us. Heck, we got confirmation that SSB Vegito is on beerus level in the manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by brett wheeler » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:45 pm

so we have any idea how much of a multiplier MUI is, cause if goku beats jiren with it, hell even if he rivals him with it that would put him above vegito blue and his multiplier, thats a ridiculous jump.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:47 pm

brett wheeler wrote:so we have any idea how much of a multiplier MUI is, cause if goku beats jiren with it, hell even if he rivals him with it that would put him above vegito blue and his multiplier, thats a ridiculous jump.
These kinds of numbers are why I don't like to attach a pure power level multiplication factor to something like the Ultra Instinct.

Why bloat numbers when we can find alternative solutions?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:56 pm

brett wheeler wrote:so we have any idea how much of a multiplier MUI is, cause if goku beats jiren with it, hell even if he rivals him with it that would put him above vegito blue and his multiplier, thats a ridiculous jump.
Unless the manga depicts otherwise, for now, I'm predicting that Blue Vegetto is approximately equal to Beerus, as per the manga, and that Ultra Instinct Gokū will be approximately equal to Whis. In this way, Gokū surpasses the realm of destroyers and reaches the realm of guide angels, leaving the Grand Priest as the untouched strongest fighter and the final goal for Gokū to strive for if and when Dragon Ball continues.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Legion » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:09 pm

Guys...Goku will not be strong as Whis unless you believe that suppressed Goku can one shot Jiren or the Gods (like Whis did with Beerus) :)

Come on...

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:25 pm

Black Hawk wrote:
brett wheeler wrote:so we have any idea how much of a multiplier MUI is, cause if goku beats jiren with it, hell even if he rivals him with it that would put him above vegito blue and his multiplier, thats a ridiculous jump.
Unless the manga depicts otherwise, for now, I'm predicting that Blue Vegetto is approximately equal to Beerus, as per the manga, and that Ultra Instinct Gokū will be approximately equal to Whis. In this way, Gokū surpasses the realm of destroyers and reaches the realm of guide angels, leaving the Grand Priest as the untouched strongest fighter and the final goal for Gokū to strive for if and when Dragon Ball continues.
Well, what does that say of jiren, if he is on par with Mastered UI goku? We know goku is still inferior with the omen version.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Black Hawk » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:32 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:Well, what does that say of jiren, if he is on par with Mastered UI goku? We know goku is still inferior with the omen version.
I haven't put a lot of thought into the anime's power scaling, but, if I had to try to scale the top fighters of the tournament (and Vegetto), I'd say...

Ultra Instinct Omen Gokū - approximately equal to Beerus
SSJ Blue Vegetto - approximately equal to Beerus
Ultra Instinct Gokū - approximately equal to Whis
Jiren - approximately equal to Whis
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:43 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Pretty sure it won’t be unresolved. They already threw the statement that jiren is perhaps above hakaishin level. So I have no doubt that they will mention if goku has also surpassed hakaishin level.
Maybe. The anime has been non-committal so far with giving definitive answers, but I agree it could be that they are doing this only reveal it at tge end like how Toppo being a GoD candidate wasn't revealed until it became relevant in the story.
This stands in contrast with the manga flat out revealing Toppo's position and Jiren being stronger than Belmod before the tournament even begins.

I sure do hope we get a definitive answer.
If the anime doesn’t, the manga will for sure tell us. Heck, we got confirmation that SSB Vegito is on beerus level in the manga.

The manga and anime uses different scalings.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Gligarman » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:16 pm

One of the things I like about the idea of Ultra Instinct is the fact that it's not actually a power, it's a state of mind. As for the other characters, frankly I'm fine with their scaling being inconsistent as long as the fights are entertaining.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by brett wheeler » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:04 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
brett wheeler wrote:so we have any idea how much of a multiplier MUI is, cause if goku beats jiren with it, hell even if he rivals him with it that would put him above vegito blue and his multiplier, thats a ridiculous jump.
These kinds of numbers are why I don't like to attach a pure power level multiplication factor to something like the Ultra Instinct.

Why bloat numbers when we can find alternative solutions?
well even without numbers the power up is op,vegito in base is above ssj3 and him as ssb is beerus equal ( and toyotaro says thats a maby ), so for MUI to be above even that is out of this world of a power up

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by brett wheeler » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:07 pm

Black Hawk wrote:
brett wheeler wrote:so we have any idea how much of a multiplier MUI is, cause if goku beats jiren with it, hell even if he rivals him with it that would put him above vegito blue and his multiplier, thats a ridiculous jump.
Unless the manga depicts otherwise, for now, I'm predicting that Blue Vegetto is approximately equal to Beerus, as per the manga, and that Ultra Instinct Gokū will be approximately equal to Whis. In this way, Gokū surpasses the realm of destroyers and reaches the realm of guide angels, leaving the Grand Priest as the untouched strongest fighter and the final goal for Gokū to strive for if and when Dragon Ball continues.
well I doubt he could beat the angels or he is as strong, he just knows one of the many techniques that make them op, I was thinking about it and MUI goku will likely be 3-4 times beerus, while jiren is 2-3, and omen is on the same general lvl ( at least the current one is ),but either way its one hell of an increase.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:20 pm

I believe Goku and Jiren will scratch the surface of Angel level. The fact that Goku will master Ultra Instinct, which is something even Beerus didn’t yet while Whis did is a given.

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