Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Helios518
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:17 am

Firebolt wrote:Let's say that after the TOP ends, Goku also achieves SSB Evolution (the sparkly blue form that Vegeta has) and stacks Kaioken X20 on top of that. Would he be strong enough to beat Jiren?
No, that probably won't defeat Geran. SSJBE + KKx20 is about 400x SSJB. We know that with Geran's initial power (EP109), he surpassed FT Arc SSJB Vegetto level opponent aka Cloud Zamasu. We also know that the Vegetto fusion is about any where from a few hundred to a few thousand times Goku/Vegeta in the same form. I also doubt that Goku got much stronger in base than he was the previous arc. The conclusion would be Geran winning likely without moving past the power he did in 109/110.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Green » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:45 am

He would vaporize Jiren, Belmod and Marcarita together with that kind of powerup. Personally, I have Ultra Istinct anywhere between 80-100 times Super Saiyan Blue considering Kefla is comparable to the Genkidama (>SSBKKX20) and SS2 Kefla surpassed initial UI Omen Goku. Current one is even stronger and by mastering it his ki will increase even more.

SSBEvo, or atleast Vegeta, is comparable to SS2 Kefla. Stacking Kaioken on top of it? lol.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:24 pm

Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:38 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
I don't think so. He seems to be in that odd category like 17 where he's not as strong full-power SSB Goku/Vegeta right now, but still close enough to give fighters at such a level a good match.

Maybe a bit lower, perhaps around the level of SSB Goku/Vegeta from the Universe 6/7 Tournament, or even back in Resurrection of F.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:45 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:12 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.
That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.
Last edited by Helios518 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:22 pm

Helios518 wrote:
Firebolt wrote:Let's say that after the TOP ends, Goku also achieves SSB Evolution (the sparkly blue form that Vegeta has) and stacks Kaioken X20 on top of that. Would he be strong enough to beat Jiren?
No, that probably won't defeat Geran. SSJBE + KKx20 is about 400x SSJB. We know that with Geran's initial power (EP109), he surpassed FT Arc SSJB Vegetto level opponent aka Cloud Zamasu. We also know that the Vegetto fusion is about any where from a few hundred to a few thousand times Goku/Vegeta in the same form. I also doubt that Goku got much stronger in base than he was the previous arc. The conclusion would be Geran winning likely without moving past the power he did in 109/110.
Yes the power up would be too weak. He would probably be at UI omen level of power there, but without the UI part. Taking into account how powerful potara is, and jiren with MUI goku being above even that and the likes of hakaishins, it makes little sense to say he would be above jiren with that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:34 pm

Helios518 wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.
That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.
'Blowing up the moon' is not the same as 'tearing a rift through the fabric of reality'. Even Vegeta had a shocked expression after seeing what Black had accomplished with his newfound powers.

Also, Black stated that his power had grown so much that it had expanded beyond even his own understanding.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Transcending time and space isn’t what Goku Black did, he ripped a whole in reality, way different (but still implies he has reality warping powers). That’s something that even planet busters could do given they have some sort of reality warping. Transcending time and space allows someone to be omnipresent, being anywhere at anytime, they also have the ability to play with the laws of physics as they please. An example of a being who transcends time and space is the imps from the dc comics.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:39 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
Helios518 wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
No. Prior to fusing with Future Zamasu, Goku Black's power had expanded beyond his own comprehension and transcended time and space. I have yet to see Gohan tear an actual rift in the very fabric of reality. Also, in episode 65, Gowasu notes that Goku Black was 'the most powerful'. I don't see how Gohan could have possibly surpassed Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black.
That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.
'Blowing up the moon' is not the same as 'tearing a rift through the fabric of reality'. Even Vegeta had a shocked expression after seeing what Black had accomplished with his newfound powers.

Also, Black stated that his power had grown so much that it had expanded beyond even his own understanding.
It's the same concept, you're judging character by if you've seen them do a destruction feat. if you're seriously going by the logic that "Gohan's weaker than Black because he didn't make a rift" then SSJB Vegetto is weaker than Black.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:44 pm

The way I see it, these feats of destruction and broken dimensions and whatnot merely serve to show how strong the characters can be in comparison to their environment.

After that, they go back to fighting normally because there's no point in blowing everything up around you if it's not gonna do anything to your opponent.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:48 pm

Helios518 wrote:
SupremeKai25 wrote:
Helios518 wrote:
That argument works as much as saying "I have yet to seen SSJB Vegeta blow up a moon. Therefore he's weaker than Roshi/Piccolo". It just doesn't work.
'Blowing up the moon' is not the same as 'tearing a rift through the fabric of reality'. Even Vegeta had a shocked expression after seeing what Black had accomplished with his newfound powers.

Also, Black stated that his power had grown so much that it had expanded beyond even his own understanding.
It's the same concept, you're judging character by if you've seen them do a destruction feat. if you're seriously going by the logic that "Gohan's weaker than Black because he didn't make a rift" then SSJB Vegetto is weaker than Black.
Then, tell me, what mastodontic feats has Gohan achieved in this arc that would truly put him above Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black? How can you otherwise estabilish whether Gohan is stronger than Rosé Black or not?

Also, there's still the fact that Black himself stated that his power had expanded beyond his own comprehension (and Black is a God and a fighting prodigy).
Last edited by SupremeKai25 on Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Green » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:02 pm

Nah, I don't think Gohan is on SSR Black's level. Maybe on Black (Falchion)'s, but Black (Scythe) outclasses him.
With his Shadow Clones both Goku and Vegeta were held back, and the fomer hasn't made amazing gains between arcs since he didn't train and got rusty.

Toppo tanked his Kamehameha while Goku's put some damage on him, for me that's enough to say Gohan isn't on that level but something between Blue and God. Thinking about it, maybe he is similar to initial SSR Black (Sword), but that may be downplaying.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Helios518 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:09 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Then, tell me, what mastodontic feats has Gohan achieved in this arc that would truly put him above Super Saiyan Rosé Goku Black? How can you otherwise estabilish whether Gohan is stronger than Rosé Black or not?

Also, there's still the fact that Black himself stated that his power had expanded beyond his own comprehension (and Black is a God and a fighting prodigy).
Well, I wasn't really arguing about current Gohan vs Black, just pointing out that the "I"ve never seen Gohan make a space rift" isn't a good argument. But if you want my stance on it then I think Gohan is near or around current SSJB level but we don't know how current Blue tier matches up with Black at his best.
Why I use "Geran" instead of "Jiren"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Freeza9000 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:11 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Is Gohan stronger then Rose Black now?
There's no denying that Gohan after reawakening his dormant power has drastically come a long way in comparison to his previous self in the Boo arc. But besides putting up a fight against a suppressed Blue Goku and a fairly powerful combatant in Dyspo, he barely was even a match for Base Toppo who's roughly around the same ballpark of power as Rose Black, maybe a bit higher.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:38 pm

Honestly, I'm not even sure SSB Goku and Vegeta are as strong as SSR Goku Black at the end of the Future Trunks Arc.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Rally 07 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:07 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Honestly, I'm not even sure SSB Goku and Vegeta are as strong as SSR Goku Black at the end of the Future Trunks Arc.
Are you talking about Super Saiyan Blue Gokou and Vegeta before fighting Jiren?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:01 pm

Black and Gohan are both flies compared to current SSBlues, but Gohan should be even weaker than Black.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:30 pm

- Ultra Instinct Goku fights Jiren... a lot... and it seems pretty even
- Jiren continues to withstand everything that Ultra Instinct Goku throws at him with ease
- Goku then masters Ultra Instinct, negate the attack that was meant to finish off Goku and kicks Jirens ass briefly.

Not much to say...

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:35 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:- Ultra Instinct Goku fights Jiren... a lot... and it seems pretty even
- Jiren continue to withstand everything that Ultra Instinct Goku throws at him with ease
- Goku then masters Ultra Instinct and kicks Jirens ass.

THE END
Jiren only got hit once by MUI, and it seems like he is very close if he is able to fight competitive. It’s an entire episode between them.

So what I got from this episode and what we now considered a preview, jiren is easily above UI omen goku, and he seems to only be slightly inferior to MUI goku, or possibly even depending on how it goes.

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