Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Omniboy
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:29 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
kudo6000 wrote:[spoiler]Gohan has not used Ultimate in this tournament, at all. Not a single time. Not even SS.[/spoiler]
Image

Kefla got nerfed HARDCORE.
That is his ultimate form. He just doesn't have the bang anymore.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by kudo6000 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:32 pm

[spoiler]We saw Goku return heavily battle damaged along with Freeza after he went to fetch him in Hell. Kale as a separate entity was able to decimate Golden Freeza, and broke the guard of SSB Goku.

Yet Gohan in his base form is able to be equal in terms of battle power against a fusion of THAT Kale? You can't defend this without the use of head canon.[/spoiler]

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:35 pm

Omniboy wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
kudo6000 wrote:[spoiler]Gohan has not used Ultimate in this tournament, at all. Not a single time. Not even SS.[/spoiler]
Image

Kefla got nerfed HARDCORE.
That is his ultimate form. He just doesn't have the bang anymore.
So what's up with the assertion that apparently Gohan hasn't used his Ultimate form in the Tournament at any stage? Because that's what I'm hearing. Unless we've been misinformed.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by VegettoEX » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:37 pm

Discussion of the upcoming Dragon Ball Super chapter should not occur until the chapter is legally available in full on its release date (August 21). Do not do yourself and your arguments a disservice by discussing items you do not have the full context or understanding for.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by kudo6000 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:37 pm

Omniboy wrote:That is his ultimate form. He just doesn't have the bang anymore.
Gohan has never activated it throughout the tournament. We've seen him in Ultimate form during the Battle of Gods arc, and he does have a bang.

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Omniboy
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:40 pm

kudo6000 wrote:
Omniboy wrote:That is his ultimate form. He just doesn't have the bang anymore.
Gohan has never activated it throughout the tournament. We've seen him in Ultimate form during the Battle of Gods arc, and he does have a bang.
That was at the beginning of the story. If I recall it been years since then. There is no reason to assume that he hasn't changed his hair.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:05 pm

VegettoEX wrote:...Do not do yourself and your arguments a disservice by discussing items you do not have the full context or understanding for.
I was just about to post the same.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:55 pm

ZombieVito wrote:So all the manga fans, where's your consistency now?

[spoiler]Gohan is equal to Kefla. That makes his power up in the anime look like nothing.

Image

Image[/spoiler]
As if there was ever any consistency in the first place...........

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Skar » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:59 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Well, that's the issue, isn't?

People keep thinking that base and Super Saiyan forms for non-fused and fused Saiyans seen thus far are as low as they were back during the Buu Arc, and so are surprised when they perform above that level, such as base Kefla against SSG Goku and Ultimate Gohan here against SS Kefla.

I feel that this helps support the notion that the base and Super Saiyans are highly powerful, far beyond what the original predecessor story had left them at bar End of Z, at least in terms of "regular power level". After all, if Goku's gonna be tangling with the reincarnation of Pure Buu in base form while only starting to get serious in a mere 3 years time chronologically speaking, he and by extension others should be pretty strong now as well.
In chapter 37, Freeza mentioned that SSJ Caulifa was stronger than the first SSJ he fought but he only mentioned that after she transformed implying her base form wasn't stronger than SSJ Goku Namek. This is similar to how Toriyama compared their power in the manga. For example, Majin Vegeta mentioned Goku was stronger than Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan only after he powered up to SSJ2.

In the anime, you can't come to the same simple conclusion because you have to assume that the U6 base Saiyans are far beyond anyone in the Buu saga before ever turning SSJ in order to fit with the other anime-only base feats. It's the same with Future Trunks who wasn't that far behind Vegeta with the same training during the Cell saga and needed SSJ2 to defeat Dabura. We have to assume his base skyrocketed to high Buu saga tier in the few years between facing Dabura and Goku Black so it works with the other scenes in the anime.

I don't have a problem with their being different power scaling between the anime and manga if that was what was intended by Toei. My issue is that it overcomplicates things because you have go to the extra effort to piece it together. Most Japanese fans who watch DBS are likely younger than most of us on here. I don't think Toei intended for them to go to that much effort to understand it and come up with their own theories and assumptions than just taking them at face value like in the manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by MisteryOne » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:16 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
kudo6000 wrote:[spoiler]Gohan has not used Ultimate in this tournament, at all. Not a single time. Not even SS.[/spoiler]
Image

Kefla got nerfed HARDCORE.
And this us what happens when Toei suddenly gives Ultimate Gohan a bang. I have been saying it for months, glad to see Toyotaro was indeed being consistent.

Ultimate has never been a transformation in the same sense as Super Saiyan. Old Kai literally told Gohan transformations were useless. Gohan has been Ultimate the entire time of the tournament. Toei however decided to give it a hairstyle change despite that not happening or being hinted in the original manga at all. The momment he regained his Ultimate power he should have stayed like that.

The power of Kale and Kefla it's just a whole mess in both mediums tho, I totally agree with that. Toei could not make her mind up about how her transformations worked. Toyotaro can't seem to agree how strong is her.

Unless Kale is actually way stronger than Kefla, which could be possible, but I don't think it has been stated. Either that or Gohan's power up is even more bullshit here. Piccolo should just try to train Goten and Trunks.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:19 pm

[spoiler]Everything doesn't make sense anymore...[/spoiler]

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Exline » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:22 pm

i would've been fine with a simple win/lose situation for Gohan...

But a tie..? Come on...

And why is Toyotaro suddenly breaking the power scale for this tournament? He was doing such a good job in the earlier arcs.
He seemingly wants to rush past this arc in order to get to the new broly story...

Such a shame man..

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:31 pm

Exline wrote:And why is Toyotaro suddenly breaking the power scale for this tournament? He was doing such a good job in the earlier arcs.
What? No he didn't.

Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta > Super Saiyan Goku Black > Goku Black > Super Saiyan 3 Goku ~ Super Saiyan 2 Full Power Trunks

^Makes no sense whatsoever. but that is what is shown in the manga.

There's no filler arcs for him to "screw up" fights either so there's a smaller sample size to work with but he had the Black arc's poor power scaling this arc's poor power scaling, he didn't do RoF,the Universe 6 arc he had that ridiculous crap with Vegeta, and then there's next to nothing in the BoG arc that you could try to screw up.

So no, I don't think he ever was doing a good job in the earlier arcs.
He seemingly wants to rush past this arc in order to get to the new broly story...
Yes, he definitely is. That is why you get things like 4 Universes being erased in a matter of 8 pages.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:36 pm

You know its funny that VegettoEX told us to hold off of talking about the manga till we get official translations and context as to how these events happened yet we are still talking about it with no context.
Last edited by Omniboy on Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:38 pm

kudo6000 wrote: Yet Gohan in his base form is able to be equal in terms of battle power against a fusion of THAT Kale? You can't defend this without the use of head canon.
Earlier in the manga, Vegeta specifically said that Gohan has the potential to surpass both himself and Goku.

In the original manga, Goku specifically said that Potara fusion doesn't always yield these ridiculous boosts the fandom believes they yield.

Earlier in this very tournament, Piccolo specifically told Gohan not to use his full power while they were dealing with Universe 9.

Everything here was foreshadowed.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:44 pm

Omniboy wrote:You know its funny that VegettoEX told us to hold off of talking about the manga till we get official translations and context as to how these events happened, yet we are still talking about it with no context.
It can't really be helped. :roll:
But yeah, we've seen about a tenth of the chapter so far. It's way too early to start discussing, all we have at the moment is kneejerk reactions. Please wait.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:54 pm

Search Roshi on Twitter.

Good luck explaining this manga fans.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Omniboy » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:57 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Search Roshi on Twitter.

Good luck explaining this manga fans.
We can't explain because we don't have the damn context and translations. Wait.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RedHeat » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:58 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Search Roshi on Twitter.

Good luck explaining this manga fans.
Looks like Roshi is new Broly-tier now
Feels over Reals.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ekrolo2 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:59 pm

The new Shisami vs Piccolo is here.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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