Thinking about: the whole thing about Roshi it's cool if we see only the context of "and old master fighting a powerful villain" like Genkai vs. Toguro, Yoda vs. Dooku, etc. but battle power wise is just an abomination.
Omniboy wrote:People said the same thing when they saw the pride troopers defeating Kale until it was revealed that she was getting weaker. The same might be happening to Kefla. Which is why I said wait till we get context. If we get no explanation, then fair enough, but wait.
That's a whole different context: Pride Troopers (taking Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo) are a bunch of scrubs in the anime, but we know that the manga runs through a different power scale and that's fine. The main problem now is that Roshi is a someone that no matter how long he improved, would never land a punch on Namek Freeza (being generous) and now is resisting Jiren who I think is supposed to be overwhelming strong as his anime counterpart was. It doesn't make sense. Has he gone off-screen training with Whis, now?
Bullza wrote:Master Roshi holding his own... against Jiren? What's going on? It'll be interesting to close this thread after that.
Fixed, mate.
Last edited by Noah on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
you seem quite confident that they can fully explain the tussle of master roshi fighting against the strongest fighter of the ToP , with logic that makes sense. instead of telling us to wait on more context, why don't you offer any possibilities on why roshi is holding his own in the panels shown?
Last edited by RichardKing2 on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The manga thread is locked, so people are discussing it here lol. It's really really pointless to discuss without full chapter translations. The same thing happened last time and people got pissed about Kale / Kefla, until it made logical sense with the translations. I'm not saying anything until it's out. We even have an interview coming up in Sept. 4th of Toriyama specifically on the manga. This thread should be locked as well.
[spoiler]It's clear that UI is not a transformation or just a power-up in the manga, but a technique. Beerus used it against gods. Whis has been using it. UI is not just moving faster. It's not speed, but anticipation, predicting, and moving based on instinct. Only someone who has a lot of experience in martial arts can do this and that's why it's known as Mushin in martial arts culture. You aren't dodging punches being thrown at speeds faster than light. You are dodging punches that haven't YET been thrown. It's clear just from the panels alone that Whis, Beerus, and Goku all have their jaws dropped. That is, they are shocked just like we are. There are many things that Roshi learned from Mutaito about martial arts. Freeza and Vegeta didn't even know how to sense ki until they fought with Goku. Roshi is only dodging and not doing any damage to a suppressed Jiren who is also probably surprised. You can get disqualified from killing in ToP. If Jiren even used a fraction of his strength, that would mean the end for Roshi. Roshi will lose and Goku will learn from watching to tap into UI Omen.[/spoiler]
Noah wrote:Thinking about: the whole thing about Roshi it's cool if we see only the context of "and old master fighting a powerful villain" like Genkai vs. Toguro, Yoda vs. Dooku, etc. but battle power wise is just an abomination.
Omniboy wrote:People said the same thing when they saw the pride troopers defeating Kale until it was revealed that she was getting weaker. The same might be happening to Kefla. Which is why I said wait till we get context. If we get no explanation, then fair enough, but wait.
That's a whole different context: Pride Troopers (taking Jiren, Toppo and Dyspo) are a bunch of scrubs in the anime, but we know that the manga runs through a different power scale and that's fine. The main problem now is that Roshi is a someone that no matter how long he improved, would never land a punch on Namek Freeza (being generous) and now is resisting Jiren who I think is supposed to be overwhelming strong as his anime counterpart was. It doesn't make sense. Has he gone off-screen training with Whis, now?
I wasn't even talking about the Master Roshi thing. I was talking about Kefla. As for Master Roshi... I don't know. Maybe he has somewhat his own version of Ultra instinct. I don't know, but I will wait.
Besides the pride troopers minus the main 3 are also weak. Belmond even states this. It's just as a team that they work extremely well.
Last edited by Omniboy on Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just saw the Roshi vs Jiren scans and I honestly feel sick. What on earth is Toyo thinking!? Just...how? I don't care how much Jiren is holding back(assuming he is), that's just not possibe
shadowfox87 wrote:The manga thread is locked, so people are discussing it here lol. It's really really pointless to discuss without full chapter translations. The same thing happened last time and people got pissed about Kale / Kefla, until it made logical sense with the translations. I'm not saying anything until it's out. We even have an interview coming up in Sept. 4th of Toriyama specifically on the manga. This thread should be locked as well.
[spoiler]It's clear that UI is not a transformation or just a power-up in the manga, but a technique. Beerus used it against gods. Whis has been using it. UI is not just moving faster. It's not speed, but anticipation, predicting, and moving based on instinct. Only someone who has a lot of experience in martial arts can do this and that's why it's known as Mushin in martial arts culture. You aren't dodging punches being thrown at speeds faster than light. You are dodging punches that haven't YET been thrown. It's clear just from the panels alone that Whis, Beerus, and Goku all have their jaws dropped. That is, they are shocked just like we are. There are many things that Roshi learned from Mutaito about martial arts. Freeza and Vegeta didn't even know how to sense ki until they fought with Goku. Roshi is only dodging and not doing any damage to a suppressed Jiren who is also probably surprised. You can get disqualified from killing in ToP. If Jiren even used a fraction of his strength, that would mean the end for Roshi. Roshi will lose and Goku will learn from watching to tap into UI Omen.[/spoiler]
Not much context is needed when you see Roshi dodging Jiren's attacks as clear as day. It makes no sense. I've been saying for months the manga is trash and now that is really coming to light.
shadowfox87 wrote:The manga thread is locked, so people are discussing it here lol. It's really really pointless to discuss without full chapter translations. The same thing happened last time and people got pissed about Kale / Kefla, until it made logical sense with the translations. I'm not saying anything until it's out. We even have an interview coming up in Sept. 4th of Toriyama specifically on the manga. This thread should be locked as well.
[spoiler]It's clear that UI is not a transformation or just a power-up in the manga, but a technique. Beerus used it against gods. Whis has been using it. UI is not just moving faster. It's not speed, but anticipation, predicting, and moving based on instinct. Only someone who has a lot of experience in martial arts can do this and that's why it's known as Mushin in martial arts culture. You aren't dodging punches being thrown at speeds faster than light. You are dodging punches that haven't YET been thrown. It's clear just from the panels alone that Whis, Beerus, and Goku all have their jaws dropped. That is, they are shocked just like we are. There are many things that Roshi learned from Mutaito about martial arts. Freeza and Vegeta didn't even know how to sense ki until they fought with Goku. Roshi is only dodging and not doing any damage to a suppressed Jiren who is also probably surprised. You can get disqualified from killing in ToP. If Jiren even used a fraction of his strength, that would mean the end for Roshi. Roshi will lose and Goku will learn from watching to tap into UI Omen.[/spoiler]
Not much context is needed when you see Roshi dodging Jiren's attacks as clear as day. It makes no sense. I've been saying for months the manga is trash and now that is really coming to light.
The writing is God awful.
Frankly, I don't think the manga being trash is a particularly recent revelation. As soon as we saw in the Universe 6 arc that "Yeah Vegeta you went SSB for like 3 seconds against Cabba so now you can't even use a tenth of your power against Hit" I knew it was going to be bad. And I was right!
Most scenes in the anime that people deem bad power scaling are just because they didn't pay attention or just fully understand the scene in question. The manga's reputation for having better power scaling is baffling to me.
See but now, it is just hilariously bad. This will be the 3rd chapter in a row that is downright awful.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
Miracles wrote:Why don't you wait for context. So you can understand why things are going down the way they do?
Speculation is half the fun. We used to keep making all comments and assumptions just based off of the next episode previews. You've got people making comments about Broly's strength months from that movie releasing.
PFM18 wrote:. This will be the 3rd chapter in a row that is downright awful.
Eh the chapter with Frieza and the saiyans wasn't that bad, it was quite refreshing seeing Frieza getting his ass kicked yet he wasn't crying about it and the fights were good there but now this, I can't help to feel dissapointed right now.
Roshi is the strongest fighter in the series. Everything we've seen was set up by him in order to train Goku. Before becoming an evil emperor by Roshi's order to Zenou, Frieza was just the old refrigerator at Kame House. The angels are actually Roshi's servants and Zenou is his previous student.
Dr_SLUMP wrote:Roshi is the strongest fighter in the series. Everything we've seen was set up by him in order to train Goku. Before becoming an evil emperor by Roshi's order to Zenou, Frieza was just the old refrigerator at Kame House. The angels are actually Roshi's servants and Zenou is his previous student.
Glad Zamasu did not see all of his power or...
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Miracles wrote:Why don't you wait for context. So you can understand why things are going down the way they do?
Speculation is half the fun. We used to keep making all comments and assumptions just based off of the next episode previews. You've got people making comments about Broly's strength months from that movie releasing.
Most of what's going on here isn't speculation, it's judgment's and conclusions. It's the reason why the manga thread is closed, it's the reason why VegettoEX warned people not to do what they are doing a few pages ago.
It's people riveting on their chance to feel validated in their opinion; to attack to "manga fans" whatever that means to prove themselves. My assumption is that everyone here is a Dragon Ball fan, capable of having discussions as equals and not segregate ourselves in little sectors trying to be the "superior faction" ignoring arguments, politeness and even common sense(like having all the information at hand).
Clearly I am mistaken.
I wish we were having fun making up theories or cracking up jokes.
Dudes who can't read japanese and have seen 10 scans on twitter can somehow put the whole puzzle together.
Every month raw scans come out, fans lose their minds and start pointless anime vs manga fights as if they get paid by toei or toyotaro and then when the chapter comes out, most questions are answered
I didn't even know there was a Anime vs Manga fandom like that.
Obviously people shouldn't jump to conclusions but people generally will make comment on what has been shown so far. Here we have what appears to be Base Gohan fighting evenly against Super Saiyan Kefla.
Super Saiyan Kefla being superior to Super Saiyan Kale. Super Saiyan Kale being arguably stronger than Blue level characters. So yeah that's strange.
Is it Ultimate Gohan the whole time? I dunno, he was struggling against the Trio Dear Dangers. It would lead you to believe he was weaker than Frost as they just ran from him and Frost is weaker than Super Saiyan Goku.
Master Roshi was actually said to be one of the three weaklings. Yet Jiren seemingly can't get a hand on him but he had no problem hitting Perfected Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Hit.
Maybe it will be explained but that would be the discussion afterward.
Bullza wrote:I didn't even know there was a Anime vs Manga fandom like that.
Obviously people shouldn't jump to conclusions but people generally will make comment on what has been shown so far. Here we have what appears to be Base Gohan fighting evenly against Super Saiyan Kefla.
Super Saiyan Kefla being superior to Super Saiyan Kale. Super Saiyan Kale being arguably stronger than Blue level characters. So yeah that's strange.
Is it Ultimate Gohan the whole time? I dunno, he was struggling against the Trio Dear Dangers. It would lead you to believe he was weaker than Frost as they just ran from him and Frost is weaker than Super Saiyan Goku.
Master Roshi was actually said to be one of the three weaklings. Yet Jiren seemingly can't get a hand on him but he had no problem hitting Perfected Super Saiyan Blue Goku or Hit.
Maybe it will be explained but that would be the discussion afterward.
Its ultimate gohan. he doesn't have a bang because he didn't have a bang at all in this arc. In Z he had a bang even before potential unlocked. Gohan just powers up, his eyes are the visual cue, toyo doesn't give a bang.
Also jiren one shots roshi off the stage, you guys act like jiren doesn't have to hold back everything and then some to avoid killing the old man, if roshi dies at jirens hand, u11 is done.
Dudes who can't read japanese and have seen 10 scans on twitter can somehow put the whole puzzle together.
Every month raw scans come out, fans lose their minds and start pointless anime vs manga fights as if they get paid by toei or toyotaro and then when the chapter comes out, most questions are answered
[/spoiler]
