Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Koitsukai]

I imagine this might get lost amongst all the manga chapter but there were two things I wanted to ask.

1. How strong was Base Goku Black after his power up? He seemed to completely tank all of Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta's attacks, he blitzed him seemed to hurt him more with just one kick. He actually seems like he'd be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta.

2. Does anyone have any explanation for why Base Goku Black would seemingly be hundreds of times stronger than Base Goku and yet Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black is maybe two or three times as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku?

Well, all that episode is pretty weird. When Base Black moves closer to Blue Vegeta, he couldn't even see that and you end up thinking Base Black might be enough (weird), then he is unharmed after Blue Vegeta's attack and gets up smiling(weird), we're suppose to believe he gets a zenkai and then kicks him away, turns Rosé and tries to teach him a lesson but Blue Vegeta grabs his fist and counterattacks (weird) surprising Black, until Black smiles and wins the fight. Another zenkai? or was he just underestimating Vegeta?

For what we see in the following episodes, Rosé is above Blue but no by that much, so Blue against Base should be a stomp, but it was not like that at all.
I know it's just bad writing but in-universe I guess Vegeta wasn't going all out or didn't have yet great control over the transformation, explaining why he couldn't hurt Base Black but managed to output more power against Rosé in a more serious situation. I don't know, I don't wanna just say bad writing, that's boring, that would be like saying Broly, Buu or Jiren lost because the plot said so.

[Bullza]

A somewhat similar thing happened in the manga also where Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta seemed to perform better against Super Saiyan Black than Base Black.

But yeah it was odd because Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seemed like he was doing somewhat decently against Super Saiyan Rose Black whereas he didn't seem to be hurting Base Black at all.

Did he get another Zenkai though? Was that what pushed him to Super Saiyan Rose? But then it seemed like he may have achieved it beforehand.

[RandomGuy96]

A somewhat similar thing happened in the manga also where Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta seemed to perform better against Super Saiyan Black than Base Black.

But yeah it was odd because Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seemed like he was doing somewhat decently against Super Saiyan Rose Black whereas he didn't seem to be hurting Base Black at all.

Did he get another Zenkai though? Was that what pushed him to Super Saiyan Rose? But then it seemed like he may have achieved it beforehand.

I don't think "Rose" is anything special in the manga. Zamasu literally just says that Black's hair color changed because he crossed a certain level of power. Black before and after healing from that fight (which just gave him a few scratches and a bloody lip) are probably roughly the same strength.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

A somewhat similar thing happened in the manga also where Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta seemed to perform better against Super Saiyan Black than Base Black.

But yeah it was odd because Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta seemed like he was doing somewhat decently against Super Saiyan Rose Black whereas he didn't seem to be hurting Base Black at all.

Did he get another Zenkai though? Was that what pushed him to Super Saiyan Rose? But then it seemed like he may have achieved it beforehand.

I generally chalk it up to Vegeta underestimating base Goku Black and thinking that he was beating on Black at a level of power equal to what Future Trunks speculated he had achieved to have surpassed even SS3 Goku.

Goku Black then caught him off-guard with how much stronger he had gotten.

At least, that's how I always thought of it.

[PFM18]

Toyotaro has really just laid an egg in the manga. The power scailing is so hap-hazard now. Base Goku and vegeta are able to hurt to Jiren? MUI just comes out of nowhere with barley any build-up? Ugh. My version of the manga after chapter 38 would have been so much better. The power scailing would make sense and be way more exciting.

Vegeta did say that Jiren was considerably weakened though, so I don't see how Toyo messed up here.

Spoiler:

BASE GOKU AND VEGETA (aka probably even weaker then perfect cell) are hurting Jiren! That's TERRIBLE power scailing. Maybe if they were in mssj blue and now could hurt Jiren, but even that's a stretch because Jiren powers shouldn't just drop off so quickly. Is his full power an energy drainer like old ssj blue and ssj3? Smh

Jiren is weakened. There's your explanation. It's the same as the anime. The manga's power scaling is wonky but this chapter is not an example of that in the slightest.

[HeroR]

Vegeta did say that Jiren was considerably weakened though, so I don't see how Toyo messed up here.

Spoiler:

BASE GOKU AND VEGETA (aka probably even weaker then perfect cell) are hurting Jiren! That's TERRIBLE power scailing. Maybe if they were in mssj blue and now could hurt Jiren, but even that's a stretch because Jiren powers shouldn't just drop off so quickly. Is his full power an energy drainer like old ssj blue and ssj3? Smh

Jiren is weakened. There's your explanation. It's the same as the anime. The manga's power scaling is wonky but this chapter is not an example of that in the slightest.

The real problem is presentation. Jiren doesn’t look that hurt in the manga and he punched Goku out of UI. Compare to the anime where Jiren actually lost to the point that he admitted defeat and would have been rung out if Goku didn’t suffer a power backlash. Then Frieza and 17 beat Jiren up further before the final showdown and got Jiren on his knees and would have lost, again, if Toppo didn’t pet talk him.

So this is an extremely rare instant of the anime having everyone look like crap while the manga, Jiren just looks slightly out of breath. Like compare Jiren to Merged Zamasu in the manga after he fought Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

[1345521]

Vegeta did say that Jiren was considerably weakened though, so I don't see how Toyo messed up here.

Spoiler:

BASE GOKU AND VEGETA (aka probably even weaker then perfect cell) are hurting Jiren! That's TERRIBLE power scailing. Maybe if they were in mssj blue and now could hurt Jiren, but even that's a stretch because Jiren powers shouldn't just drop off so quickly. Is his full power an energy drainer like old ssj blue and ssj3? Smh

Jiren is weakened. There's your explanation. It's the same as the anime. The manga's power scaling is wonky but this chapter is not an example of that in the slightest.

Lol, spare me. Of coruse to you it isn't, because it copies the anime. If the anime never did that, you'd probably be singing a differnt toon.
Just because Jiren is "weakened" does not mean he decreases 99+% of his power. The anime had terrible power scailing, and the manga copied it. If toyotaro had them go mssj blue, that would have saved it. This is rdicously bad, it's anime level bad (which has thee the worst power scailing of ANY dragon ball products).

[1345521]

BASE GOKU AND VEGETA (aka probably even weaker then perfect cell) are hurting Jiren! That's TERRIBLE power scailing. Maybe if they were in mssj blue and now could hurt Jiren, but even that's a stretch because Jiren powers shouldn't just drop off so quickly. Is his full power an energy drainer like old ssj blue and ssj3? Smh

Jiren is weakened. There's your explanation. It's the same as the anime. The manga's power scaling is wonky but this chapter is not an example of that in the slightest.

The real problem is presentation. Jiren doesn’t look that hurt in the manga and he punched Goku out of UI. Compare to the anime where Jiren actually lost to the point that he admitted defeat and would have been rung out if Goku didn’t suffer a power backlash. Then Frieza and 17 beat Jiren up further before the final showdown and got Jiren on his knees and would have lost, again, if Toppo didn’t pet talk him.

So this is an extremely rare instant of the anime having everyone look like crap while the manga, Jiren just looks slightly out of breath. Like compare Jiren to Merged Zamasu in the manga after he fought Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

The anime was stil garbage too. If 17 is blue level, and if jiren struggled against base frieza and goku, 17 should have logically been able to stomp all of them since he has infinite ernegy and he's just as hurt as both goku and Freeza. The anime power scailing was even a bigger joke then the manga.

[HeroR]

Jiren is weakened. There's your explanation. It's the same as the anime. The manga's power scaling is wonky but this chapter is not an example of that in the slightest.

The real problem is presentation. Jiren doesn’t look that hurt in the manga and he punched Goku out of UI. Compare to the anime where Jiren actually lost to the point that he admitted defeat and would have been rung out if Goku didn’t suffer a power backlash. Then Frieza and 17 beat Jiren up further before the final showdown and got Jiren on his knees and would have lost, again, if Toppo didn’t pet talk him.

So this is an extremely rare instant of the anime having everyone look like crap while the manga, Jiren just looks slightly out of breath. Like compare Jiren to Merged Zamasu in the manga after he fought Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

The anime was stil garbage too. If 17 is blue level, and if jiren struggled against base frieza and goku, 17 should have logically been able to stomp all of them since he has infinite ernegy and he's just as hurt as both goku and Freeza. The anime power scailing was even a bigger joke then the manga.

Jiren was beating up base form Goku and Frieza to the point that the only thing they could do was push him out of the ring with Goku going in and out of Super Saiyan. And this was with 17 shooting Jiren into a pillar.

[PFM18]

Jiren is weakened. There's your explanation. It's the same as the anime. The manga's power scaling is wonky but this chapter is not an example of that in the slightest.

The real problem is presentation. Jiren doesn’t look that hurt in the manga and he punched Goku out of UI. Compare to the anime where Jiren actually lost to the point that he admitted defeat and would have been rung out if Goku didn’t suffer a power backlash. Then Frieza and 17 beat Jiren up further before the final showdown and got Jiren on his knees and would have lost, again, if Toppo didn’t pet talk him.

So this is an extremely rare instant of the anime having everyone look like crap while the manga, Jiren just looks slightly out of breath. Like compare Jiren to Merged Zamasu in the manga after he fought Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

The anime was stil garbage too. If 17 is blue level, and if jiren struggled against base frieza and goku, 17 should have logically been able to stomp all of them since he has infinite ernegy and he's just as hurt as both goku and Freeza. The anime power scailing was even a bigger joke then the manga.

He had also just blown himself up and was surprised that even survived. 17 obviously was weaker than normal even if he does have infinite energy.

I imagine this might get lost amongst all the manga chapter but there were two things I wanted to ask.

1. How strong was Base Goku Black after his power up? He seemed to completely tank all of Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta's attacks, he blitzed him seemed to hurt him more with just one kick. He actually seems like he'd be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta.

I mean he tanked Vegeta's hits mostly because he was blocking the entire time. He had his arms crossed covering his face. He didn't "tank" it in the conventional sense where you don't even move but take no damage because they couldn't break your ki aura and damage you. He did get a good kick in, but we know one way or another Base Black isn't stronger than SSB Vegeta because Vegeta is able to catch Super Saiyan Rose Black's punch before getting stabbed. Obviously Vegeta is inferior to SSJ Rose Black, but the gap clearly isn't large enough for his Base also to be superior to SSB Vegeta.

2. Does anyone have any explanation for why Base Goku Black would seemingly be hundreds of times stronger than Base Goku and yet Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black is maybe two or three times as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku?

Super Saiyan Rose is simply a lower multiplier than SSB. It is a similar transformation to SSB, but not exactly the same so it stands that it could have a different multiplier.

Zamasu literally just says that Black's hair color changed because he crossed a certain level of power.

Which was the dumbest shit ever by the way. "Yeah there's no real distinction between them but his hair just changed when he reached a power level of X."

[Bullza]

Well for all the talk about how Dragon Ball Supers power scaling is ridiculously confusing, at least up to where I am at Episode 58 it's not that bad.

If you can accept that Super Saiyan Goku = Super Saiyan God Goku, which they did specifically say, and then you accept that pretty much every other character after that who is Super Saiyan level+ would also be stronger than Super Saiyan God then it's all pretty straightforward.

Trunks, Cabba, Magetta, Zamasu etc are all stronger than Super Saiyan God in the Battle of Gods Saga. Probably hard for some to take in but that's how it seems to be.

I think where it really started to go to shit was with Gohan and the Zen Exhibition but for now it's definitely not as bad as GT.

[PFM18]

Well for all the talk about how Dragon Ball Supers power scaling is ridiculously confusing, at least up to where I am at Episode 58 it's not that bad.

'

Frankly, I don't think it is bad at all to the point where I don't think it is much if any worse than Z especially if you consider all the jank in the Buu arc and all the promotional material. The only thing I find to be egregious is how Future Trunks's power was handled and even then that is exaggerated. Goku's KHH against Merged Zamasu is also a big head-scratcher for me.

If you can accept that Super Saiyan Goku = Super Saiyan God Goku, which they did specifically say, and then you accept that pretty much every other character after that who is Super Saiyan level+ would also be stronger than Super Saiyan God then it's all pretty straightforward.

Exactly. Super Saiyan >= Super Saiyan God is literally stated explicitly multiple times, and never contradicted, and yet it is still heavily contested. Then you see Base Goku/Vegeta crush SSJ3 Gotenks like a bug and there is community outrage and "two base theory" gains traction because people were so confused by it. That should have confused absolutely nobody, in fact it should be expected that if their SSJ form was stated to be equal to and then surpass SSG, and then they got significantly stronger since then, that their Base forms would be above SSJ3 Gotenks by this point.

Trunks, Cabba, Magetta, Zamasu etc are all stronger than Super Saiyan God in the Battle of Gods Saga. Probably hard for some to take in but that's how it seems to be

Yeah it is a hard pill to swallow but It doesn't necessarily contradict anything nor is it inherently inconsistent.

I think where it really started to go to shit was with Gohan and the Zen Exhibition but for now it's definitely not as bad as GT.

Yeah the common implication that Gohan~Goku in episode 75 completely fucks everything up but since Goku said he was testing Gohan at the beginning, and the dynamic of the fight never really changed, I just take it as Goku was testing Gohan the whole time.

Oh, and it sure as hell isn't even close to as bad as GT. That shit is awful

[1345521]

The real problem is presentation. Jiren doesn’t look that hurt in the manga and he punched Goku out of UI. Compare to the anime where Jiren actually lost to the point that he admitted defeat and would have been rung out if Goku didn’t suffer a power backlash. Then Frieza and 17 beat Jiren up further before the final showdown and got Jiren on his knees and would have lost, again, if Toppo didn’t pet talk him.

So this is an extremely rare instant of the anime having everyone look like crap while the manga, Jiren just looks slightly out of breath. Like compare Jiren to Merged Zamasu in the manga after he fought Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

The anime was stil garbage too. If 17 is blue level, and if jiren struggled against base frieza and goku, 17 should have logically been able to stomp all of them since he has infinite ernegy and he's just as hurt as both goku and Freeza. The anime power scailing was even a bigger joke then the manga.

Jiren was beating up base form Goku and Frieza to the point that the only thing they could do was push him out of the ring with Goku going in and out of Super Saiyan. And this was with 17 shooting Jiren into a pillar.

It was more like they are fighting, the fight wasn't one-sided. And your statement dosen't even dispute it's bad power scailing, lol. 17 should roffle stomp jIREN at this point, if base goku and Freeza could touch him.

[1345521]

The real problem is presentation. Jiren doesn’t look that hurt in the manga and he punched Goku out of UI. Compare to the anime where Jiren actually lost to the point that he admitted defeat and would have been rung out if Goku didn’t suffer a power backlash. Then Frieza and 17 beat Jiren up further before the final showdown and got Jiren on his knees and would have lost, again, if Toppo didn’t pet talk him.

So this is an extremely rare instant of the anime having everyone look like crap while the manga, Jiren just looks slightly out of breath. Like compare Jiren to Merged Zamasu in the manga after he fought Completed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.

The anime was stil garbage too. If 17 is blue level, and if jiren struggled against base frieza and goku, 17 should have logically been able to stomp all of them since he has infinite ernegy and he's just as hurt as both goku and Freeza. The anime power scailing was even a bigger joke then the manga.

He had also just blown himself up and was surprised that even survived. 17 obviously was weaker than normal even if he does have infinite energy.

I imagine this might get lost amongst all the manga chapter but there were two things I wanted to ask.

1. How strong was Base Goku Black after his power up? He seemed to completely tank all of Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta's attacks, he blitzed him seemed to hurt him more with just one kick. He actually seems like he'd be stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta.

I mean he tanked Vegeta's hits mostly because he was blocking the entire time. He had his arms crossed covering his face. He didn't "tank" it in the conventional sense where you don't even move but take no damage because they couldn't break your ki aura and damage you. He did get a good kick in, but we know one way or another Base Black isn't stronger than SSB Vegeta because Vegeta is able to catch Super Saiyan Rose Black's punch before getting stabbed. Obviously Vegeta is inferior to SSJ Rose Black, but the gap clearly isn't large enough for his Base also to be superior to SSB Vegeta.

2. Does anyone have any explanation for why Base Goku Black would seemingly be hundreds of times stronger than Base Goku and yet Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black is maybe two or three times as strong as Super Saiyan Blue Goku?

Super Saiyan Rose is simply a lower multiplier than SSB. It is a similar transformation to SSB, but not exactly the same so it stands that it could have a different multiplier.

Zamasu literally just says that Black's hair color changed because he crossed a certain level of power.

Which was the dumbest shit ever by the way. "Yeah there's no real distinction between them but his hair just changed when he reached a power level of X."

base goku and frieza were weaker then their normal form, doesn't matter. bad power scailing is bad power scailing. No bias for product.

[1345521]

Well for all the talk about how Dragon Ball Supers power scaling is ridiculously confusing, at least up to where I am at Episode 58 it's not that bad.

If you can accept that Super Saiyan Goku = Super Saiyan God Goku, which they did specifically say, and then you accept that pretty much every other character after that who is Super Saiyan level+ would also be stronger than Super Saiyan God then it's all pretty straightforward.

Trunks, Cabba, Magetta, Zamasu etc are all stronger than Super Saiyan God in the Battle of Gods Saga. Probably hard for some to take in but that's how it seems to be.

I think where it really started to go to shit was with Gohan and the Zen Exhibition but for now it's definitely not as bad as GT.

So meggata, ssj cabba, sayainman gohan, ssj caulifa, trunks, are all stronger then ssj god that fought berrus? even Kuririn can withstand a fight against ssj god level oppenets? give me a break. The power scailing is down-right trash. And GT was better. It wasn't great, but better then supers anime. No doubt.

[Bullza]

That should have confused absolutely nobody, in fact it should be expected that if their SSJ form was stated to be equal to and then surpass SSG, and then they got significantly stronger since then, that their Base forms would be above SSJ3 Gotenks by this point.

Yeah and that was established a couple sagas prior to. Base Goku matched Final Form Frieza whereas the rest of the Z Fighters didn't stand a chance against him in his first form.

His Base form strength skyrocketed like his Super Saiyan strength. Him being far above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was pretty consistent.

The confusion people seemed to have is that they didn't like the idea of characters like Cabba and especially Trunks being that strong too.

Yeah the common implication that Gohan~Goku in episode 75 completely fucks everything up but since Goku said he was testing Gohan at the beginning, and the dynamic of the fight never really changed, I just take it as Goku was testing Gohan the whole time.

It gets confusing from there because Gohan should never have been shown to be as strong as Goku. Where it becomes particularly confusing is that you would have Basil and Lavender who would be probably to Cell and Buu Saga characters and then Bergamo was roughly on the same level as Base Goku so would make him enormously more powerful than the other two.

[quote="1345521"So meggata, ssj cabba, sayainman gohan, ssj caulifa, trunks, are all stronger then ssj god that fought berrus? even Kuririn can withstand a fight against ssj god level oppenets? give me a break. The power scailing is down-right trash. And GT was better. It wasn't great, but better then supers anime. No doubt.[/quote]

Saiyaman Gohan shouldn't be, they said he didn't have his "original strength" referring to the Buu Saga. The rest though should be yes. They're all around or stronger than Super Saiyan Goku aren't they?

You saw the episode where Goku went from a Super Saiyan God to a Super Saiyan and kept fighting, you heard them say that he didn't get any weaker from it. So anyone stronger than that Super Saiyan would in turn be stronger than that Super Saiyan God.

When did Krillin ever withstand a fight against someone that strong? He said he was weaker than Gohan. He was weaker than Basil.

GT's power scaling was that bad that I had to all but give up on it. It made no sense at all. Supers power scaling makes sense it's just a bit hard to swallow but GT's just didn't make sense, that's much worse.

[PFM18]

Yeah and that was established a couple sagas prior to. Base Goku matched Final Form Frieza whereas the rest of the Z Fighters didn't stand a chance against him in his first form.

His Base form strength skyrocketed like his Super Saiyan strength. Him being far above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was pretty consistent.

The confusion people seemed to have is that they didn't like the idea of characters like Cabba and especially Trunks being that strong too.

Right. People have trouble with coming to terms with the power of Cabba/Future Trunks and then they come up with all kinds of wild head canon fan theories to work around that, and then they complain when things don't fit their meticulously formulated head canon. (This is more prevalent on other places than Kanzenshuu but still)

At the end of the day, Cabba is one of the strongest fighters in his Universe and Future Trunks had been training for the past 13 or 14 years that presumably included training with the Z-sword and getting pushed to his limit and gaining zenkais from fighting Goku Black that pushed him to new heights.(Still stupid, but it isn't awful.)

It gets confusing from there because Gohan should never have been shown to be as strong as Goku. Where it becomes particularly confusing is that you would have Basil and Lavender who would be probably to Cell and Buu Saga characters and then Bergamo was roughly on the same level as Base Goku so would make him enormously more powerful than the other two.

Yeah the scene portrays it weird but I think Goku was holding back a ton against Gohan. If he wasn't, it would fuck everything up. Bergamo only fought against Base Goku briefly before absorbing all of his power, so his power is incredibly hard to gauge. But even though they did explicitly recognize Lavender/Basil as being piss weak even from the perspective of their Base forms, but they gave a shitty excuse for why they didn't curb stomp them

So meggata, ssj cabba, sayainman gohan, ssj caulifa, trunks, are all stronger then ssj god that fought berrus? even Kuririn can withstand a fight against ssj god level oppenets? give me a break. The power scailing is down-right trash. And GT was better. It wasn't great, but better then supers anime. No doubt.

Yes. Nothing contradicted or inconsistent about Magetta, Cabba, Caulilfa and Trunks being stronger than BoG SSG. Neither saiyaman Gohan or Kururin really fit that category though. Nothing inherently inconsistent about any of it. You may not like it, but it doesn't contradict anything. GT, on the other hand, will literally blatantly contradict itself within the same episode let alone stay consistent over the course of the series. It is quite literally impossible to make a coherent PL list that fits all of the statements/feats that exist in GT.

[Bergamo]

Yeah and that was established a couple sagas prior to. Base Goku matched Final Form Frieza whereas the rest of the Z Fighters didn't stand a chance against him in his first form.

His Base form strength skyrocketed like his Super Saiyan strength. Him being far above Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks was pretty consistent.

The confusion people seemed to have is that they didn't like the idea of characters like Cabba and especially Trunks being that strong too.

Right. People have trouble with coming to terms with the power of Cabba/Future Trunks and then they come up with all kinds of wild head canon fan theories to work around that, and then they complain when things don't fit their meticulously formulated head canon. (This is more prevalent on other places than Kanzenshuu but still)

At the end of the day, Cabba is one of the strongest fighters in his Universe and Future Trunks had been training for the past 13 or 14 years that presumably included training with the Z-sword and getting pushed to his limit and gaining zenkais from fighting Goku Black that pushed him to new heights.(Still stupid, but it isn't awful.)

It gets confusing from there because Gohan should never have been shown to be as strong as Goku. Where it becomes particularly confusing is that you would have Basil and Lavender who would be probably to Cell and Buu Saga characters and then Bergamo was roughly on the same level as Base Goku so would make him enormously more powerful than the other two.

Yeah the scene portrays it weird but I think Goku was holding back a ton against Gohan. If he wasn't, it would fuck everything up. Bergamo only fought against Base Goku briefly before absorbing all of his power, so his power is incredibly hard to gauge. But even though they did explicitly recognize Lavender/Basil as being piss weak even from the perspective of their Base forms, but they gave a shitty excuse for why they didn't curb stomp them.

Cabbe clearly takes his position on the sadla defence force seriously, so it wouldn't make sense for him to spend so much time and effort bolstering his strength. Either Cabbe got to God levels easily, or he spends more time training than protecting people.

[Bullza]

As odd it is that Future Trunks would surpass Super Saiyan God (or even double it with Super Saiyan 2), I wouldn't say it's radically different from say Yamcha surpassing Raditz. Krillin surpassing Vegeta's level in the Saiyan Saga after just being touched on the head. Piccolo surpassing Frieza.

High end characters in one Saga are very quickly made non important. You had Cell and he was the end of all things and then in the next Saga he was just some guy from seven years ago who wouldn't be a problem anymore.

You see the kind of boost they gave Android 17 so how far fetched is it that Trunks would have one, it's actually a smaller boost than what Android 17.

[PFM18]

Cabbe is clearly takes his position on the sadla defence force seriously, so it wouldn't make sense for him to spend so much time and effort bolstering his strength. Either Cabbe got to God levels easily, or he spends more time training than protecting people.

He is constantly serving the Sadala defense force, so that IS his training. He is constantly fighting villains/evil people to protect people/fulfill his position. He obviously got to "God" levels easily relative to Goku/Vegeta because clearly the Universe 6 Saiyans dwarf the Universe 7 Saiyans.

As odd it is that Future Trunks would surpass Super Saiyan God (or even double it with Super Saiyan 2), I wouldn't say it's radically different from say Yamcha surpassing Raditz. Krillin surpassing Vegeta's level in the Saiyan Saga after just being touched on the head. Piccolo surpassing Frieza.

High end characters in one Saga are very quickly made non important. You had Cell and he was the end of all things and then in the next Saga he was just some guy from seven years ago who wouldn't be a problem anymore.

You see the kind of boost they gave Android 17 so how far fetched is it that Trunks would have one, it's actually a smaller boost than what Android 17.

Such a good point. I didn't quite ever think of the example of Yamcha surpassing Raditz or things like that, but the next arc always makes previous characters inevitably a joke. Like especially since the Future Trunks arc is the 4th arc and you're surpassing a character from the first arc. It is akin to Cell arc/Boo arc characters surpassing Saiyan arc Vegeta which obviously, EVERYBODY by that point surpassed the top dog from that many arcs ago.