Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:12 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:So I want to make sure I understand some things ... Broly basically has a Base form that is hilariously stronger than Goku, Vegeta, or any other Saiyan's Base form. Right?

Goku and Vegeta have found very advanced transformations. Broly uses more basic transformations. Broly uses SS1 and LSS, which are more basic than SS2 and SS3. Right?

Considering Kale has LSS and Caulifla has SS2 and were astounded by Goku's SS3, it makes me think the U6 Saiyan forms were less advanced than Goku's SS3. Right?

Brolys "Ikari(Anger") state is stronger than ssg goku and vegeta (post ToP) so yeah without ss he would utterly shit on any other saiyans other than goku and vegeta at their best.

I confidently would say case Broly (Anger) is at the bare minimum stronger than even Base Kefla was

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:21 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Lol what? SSB Gogeta would be ridiculously powerful, just cause Toei made Vegito unimpressive in the Black arc and thats not a shocker considering how awful heroes is with its scaling, doesn't mean in TORIYAMA's continuity, blue gogeta wouldn't be utterly ridiculous
If it's Ultra Instinct Gogeta then it wouldn't be a problem, in fact it would be a good way of showing that Broly would be above Jiren.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:25 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:So I want to make sure I understand some things ... Broly basically has a Base form that is hilariously stronger than Goku, Vegeta, or any other Saiyan's Base form. Right?

Goku and Vegeta have found very advanced transformations. Broly uses more basic transformations. Broly uses SS1 and LSS, which are more basic than SS2 and SS3. Right?

Considering Kale has LSS and Caulifla has SS2 and were astounded by Goku's SS3, it makes me think the U6 Saiyan forms were less advanced than Goku's SS3. Right?

Brolys "Ikari(Anger") state is stronger than ssg goku and vegeta (post ToP) so yeah without ss he would utterly shit on any other saiyans other than goku and vegeta at their best.

I confidently would say case Broly (Anger) is at the bare minimum stronger than even Base Kefla was
Ummm, so I am not sure what you mean by "Broly (Anger)". I know Broly has two black-haired forms, then SS1, then LSS (now being called SS Full Power).

I am trying to linearize the Super Saiyan forms, by indicating whether a form is 'Basic', 'Intermediate', or 'Advance'. I would put SSGod and SSBlue as 'Advance'; SS2 and SS3 would be 'Intermediate'; SS1 and LSS/SS Full Power would be 'Basic'. Does this sound right?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:50 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:So I want to make sure I understand some things ... Broly basically has a Base form that is hilariously stronger than Goku, Vegeta, or any other Saiyan's Base form. Right?

Goku and Vegeta have found very advanced transformations. Broly uses more basic transformations. Broly uses SS1 and LSS, which are more basic than SS2 and SS3. Right?

Considering Kale has LSS and Caulifla has SS2 and were astounded by Goku's SS3, it makes me think the U6 Saiyan forms were less advanced than Goku's SS3. Right?

Brolys "Ikari(Anger") state is stronger than ssg goku and vegeta (post ToP) so yeah without ss he would utterly shit on any other saiyans other than goku and vegeta at their best.

I confidently would say case Broly (Anger) is at the bare minimum stronger than even Base Kefla was

Ummm, so I am not sure what you mean by "Broly (Anger)". I know Broly has two black-haired forms, then SS1, then LSS (now being called SS Full Power).

I am trying to linearize the Super Saiyan forms, by indicating whether a form is 'Basic', 'Intermediate', or 'Advance'. I would put SSGod and SSBlue as 'Advance'; SS2 and SS3 would be 'Intermediate'; SS1 and LSS/SS Full Power would be 'Basic'. Does this sound right?

Broly (Anger) is the spiky black hair form. My headcanon is that its the equivalent of his restricted ssj form from movie 8

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:53 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:

Brolys "Ikari(Anger") state is stronger than ssg goku and vegeta (post ToP) so yeah without ss he would utterly shit on any other saiyans other than goku and vegeta at their best.

I confidently would say case Broly (Anger) is at the bare minimum stronger than even Base Kefla was

Ummm, so I am not sure what you mean by "Broly (Anger)". I know Broly has two black-haired forms, then SS1, then LSS (now being called SS Full Power).

I am trying to linearize the Super Saiyan forms, by indicating whether a form is 'Basic', 'Intermediate', or 'Advance'. I would put SSGod and SSBlue as 'Advance'; SS2 and SS3 would be 'Intermediate'; SS1 and LSS/SS Full Power would be 'Basic'. Does this sound right?

Broly (Anger) is the spiky black hair form. My headcanon is that its the equivalent of his restricted ssj form from movie 8
Ahhh, gotcha. Not to be ungrateful for your response, but what do you think of my other part about Basic/Intermediate/Advance forms?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:55 am

ChiefWamsutta wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
ChiefWamsutta wrote:

Ummm, so I am not sure what you mean by "Broly (Anger)". I know Broly has two black-haired forms, then SS1, then LSS (now being called SS Full Power).

I am trying to linearize the Super Saiyan forms, by indicating whether a form is 'Basic', 'Intermediate', or 'Advance'. I would put SSGod and SSBlue as 'Advance'; SS2 and SS3 would be 'Intermediate'; SS1 and LSS/SS Full Power would be 'Basic'. Does this sound right?

Broly (Anger) is the spiky black hair form. My headcanon is that its the equivalent of his restricted ssj form from movie 8
Ahhh, gotcha. Not to be ungrateful for your response, but what do you think of my other part about Basic/Intermediate/Advance forms?
It makes sense to me, although i'd put ss full power in the intermediate category as I don't think its quite as strong multiplier wise as god but its above ssj3(assuming thats how you are grouping them)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ChiefWamsutta » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:06 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
It makes sense to me, although i'd put ss full power in the intermediate category as I don't think its quite as strong multiplier wise as god but its above ssj3(assuming thats how you are grouping them)
That's what I wasn't sure about because Kale and Caulifla both achieved their versions of SS2 (Caulifla with the regular one and Kale with the green-haired one) and they both made a big deal about SS3.

This made me think Kale's LSS a.k.a. SS Full Power was "more basic," for lack of a better term, than SS3.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:09 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:Yeah, if there was any doubt before, this latest trailer should clear all. broly would destroy beerus and jiren
The trailer doesn't really do much to indicate one way or the other. He's ambiguously strong in the trailer. Not that we actually need confirmation, though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:53 am

Anyone wanna take a guess at where Broly will fit in between all these characters? I'd say

Gogeta (Super Saiyan Blue or Ultra Instinct) > Legendary Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta working together > Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Goku > Broly (Rage Mode) > Super Saiyan God Goku > Broly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:47 am

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
Nevaeh wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:Yeah, if there was any doubt before, this latest trailer should clear all. broly would destroy beerus and jiren
By fighting SSB Goku and Vegeta?

Statements say he's in their realm but these trailers don't show it

He wrecked them in BASE. I rewatched the trailer , when god veget punched him, he wasn’t in ikari, his hair wasn’t spiked.

Now imagine ss full power.

His base feats are literally potara fusion esque
.. and then towards the end of the trailer you see him fighting both SSB Goku and Vegeta in his yellow hair form. He's presumably gonna need his full power to beat them

If promo material didn't imply he was stronger than Jiren, I would take Jiren 10/10 based on this trailer

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Birusu16 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:18 am

Arguing over how Broly compares to Jiren and Beerus is pointless. It's already been stated he's stronger than any enemy Goku has ever faced and it was said he has destructive power greater than a GoD. And there's no way in hell UI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta. Such an assertion is laughable.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:42 am

Birusu16 wrote:Arguing over how Broly compares to Jiren and Beerus is pointless. It's already been stated he's stronger than any enemy Goku has ever faced and it was said he has destructive power greater than a GoD. And there's no way in hell UI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta. Such an assertion is laughable.
Why, exactly?

Ultra Instinct is a power that put Goku over the Gods of Destruction and Jiren, something Potara Fusion SSB hasn't been shown to be able to do; at most, Vegito Blue might equal or be somewhat above the likes of the Gods of Destruction and Jiren's normal full-power. And if Vegito Blue is arguably around that level, what the heck is Gogeta, an inferior fusion accomplished by an inferior fusion method, accomplishing?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Birusu16 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:59 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Birusu16 wrote:Arguing over how Broly compares to Jiren and Beerus is pointless. It's already been stated he's stronger than any enemy Goku has ever faced and it was said he has destructive power greater than a GoD. And there's no way in hell UI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta. Such an assertion is laughable.
Why, exactly?

Ultra Instinct is a power that put Goku over the Gods of Destruction and Jiren, something Potara Fusion SSB hasn't been shown to be able to do; at most, Vegito Blue might equal or be somewhat above the likes of the Gods of Destruction and Jiren's normal full-power. And if Vegito Blue is arguably around that level, what the heck is Gogeta, an inferior fusion accomplished by an inferior fusion method, accomplishing?
Go ahead and show undeniable evidence of Jiren and UI Goku being superior to SSB Vegetto. And while you're at it, go ahead and show me undeniable evidence that potara fusion is stronger than regular fusion. Not once has it been stated that the potara fusion grants superior power compared to the regular fusion. It's just said that's it's a better fusion, which it is because it lasts longer.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Freezerbaby » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:07 am

I keep thinking there´s no way freeza can survive a solo fight against broly, if goku and vegeta have to team up to beat ssj broly or maybe even enraged base broly, what can golden freeza do against him?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:27 am

Birusu16 wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Birusu16 wrote:Arguing over how Broly compares to Jiren and Beerus is pointless. It's already been stated he's stronger than any enemy Goku has ever faced and it was said he has destructive power greater than a GoD. And there's no way in hell UI Goku is stronger than SSB Gogeta. Such an assertion is laughable.
Why, exactly?

Ultra Instinct is a power that put Goku over the Gods of Destruction and Jiren, something Potara Fusion SSB hasn't been shown to be able to do; at most, Vegito Blue might equal or be somewhat above the likes of the Gods of Destruction and Jiren's normal full-power. And if Vegito Blue is arguably around that level, what the heck is Gogeta, an inferior fusion accomplished by an inferior fusion method, accomplishing?
Go ahead and show undeniable evidence of Jiren and UI Goku being superior to SSB Vegetto. And while you're at it, go ahead and show me undeniable evidence that potara fusion is stronger than regular fusion. Not once has it been stated that the potara fusion grants superior power compared to the regular fusion. It's just said that's it's a better fusion, which it is because it lasts longer.
Jiren, while suppressed as all hell, does WAY better than Pure Buu in a Genkidama struggle against SSB/KKx20 Goku. Pure Buu, being about equal to SS3 Goku in strength, meant he was 400 times stronger than Goku putting his all into their struggle. So, at minimum, Jiren, using just his glare and not struggling whatsoever whilst still heavily suppressed, is 400 times stronger than SSB/KKx20 Goku.

He's AT LEAST 8000 times stronger than SSB Goku, and likely much more. Meanwhile, Vegito, at most, has been said to be stronger than SS3 Goku in base form; back in the day, he was inferior to Gohan-Buu in base form, a form of Majin Buu that had the power of Super Buu and Gohan whom were each potentially 10 times stronger than SS3 Goku back then. That's, at maximum, a level of strength equal to the suppressed power of Jiren we calculated above if one factors in the same proportional boost for Goku and Vegeta now.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:28 am

Bullza wrote:Anyone wanna take a guess at where Broly will fit in between all these characters? I'd say

Gogeta (Super Saiyan Blue or Ultra Instinct) > Legendary Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta working together > Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Goku > Broly (Rage Mode) > Super Saiyan God Goku > Broly.
Sounds about right, but was Gogeta even confirmed in the movie?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:50 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Bullza wrote:Anyone wanna take a guess at where Broly will fit in between all these characters? I'd say

Gogeta (Super Saiyan Blue or Ultra Instinct) > Legendary Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Goku and Vegeta working together > Super Saiyan Broly > Super Saiyan Blue Goku > Broly (Rage Mode) > Super Saiyan God Goku > Broly.
Sounds about right, but was Gogeta even confirmed in the movie?
Datamined from xenoverse dlc 8 with Nu broly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:31 am

Hugo Boss wrote:Sounds about right, but was Gogeta even confirmed in the movie?
I'd be very disappointed if Gogeta was in it because fusion is a lame gimmick but he most likely will end up being in it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:42 am

After the latest trailer, I think it's likely the fights in this movie will consist of

Base Broly (no rage amp) > Base Goku and Base Vegeta
God Goku and God Vegeta > Base Broly
Rage Broly > God Goku, God Vegeta, Golden Frieza
Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta > Rage Broly
SSJ Broly > Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta individually
Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up > SSJ Broly
Full Power Broly > Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up
Gogeta Blue >/= Full Power Broly
UI Goku > Weakened from Gogeta Full Power Broly

That's how I'm imagining the movie panning out. I would find it very odd if we don't see at least a few minutes of UI or even MUI Goku by the end to finish off a weakened Broly. I think the highlight of this movie will be Gogeta Blue vs Full Power Broly

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:04 pm

MKCSTEALTH wrote:After the latest trailer, I think it's likely the fights in this movie will consist of

Base Broly (no rage amp) > Base Goku and Base Vegeta
God Goku and God Vegeta > Base Broly
Rage Broly > God Goku, God Vegeta, Golden Frieza
Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta > Rage Broly
SSJ Broly > Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta individually
Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up > SSJ Broly
Full Power Broly > Blue Goku and Vegeta teaming up
Gogeta Blue >/= Full Power Broly
UI Goku > Weakened from Gogeta Full Power Broly

That's how I'm imagining the movie panning out. I would find it very odd if we don't see at least a few minutes of UI or even MUI Goku by the end to finish off a weakened Broly. I think the highlight of this movie will be Gogeta Blue vs Full Power Broly
what about SSBE and SSBKK? do you not think they'll appear? I think it could be:

Rage Broly~SSG Goku and Vegeta
SSJ Broly>SSB Goku and Vegeta
SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku>SSJ Broly
LSSJ Broly>>>SSBE Vegeta and SSBKK Goku

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