Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by buutenks » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:44 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
buutenks wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:The narrative is the Broly > Jiren.

if you want to say LB jiren (anime)> movie broly, then sure if you cross continuities, that makes sense. But once the anime tells this arc, it will be made clear that broly > jiren
Going by the summary, the movie recaps some ToP chars, so it is directly linked to the Super anime, so i dont think we need to cross continuities, untill Broly movie gets retold as anime ofc.

Partly. There's no blue evolution or kaioken in the film and Beerus seems to be held up as the standard unlike in the anime where it was jiren.

Ye i guess, not fully but it is connected a bit.

Still tho, if they screw up the animation on the retelling it will be bad, very bad. From the summary, the animation is 10/10. Considering BoG and RoF retellings, lord have mercy.... :(
ZombieVito wrote:
buutenks wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:The narrative is the Broly > Jiren.

if you want to say LB jiren (anime)> movie broly, then sure if you cross continuities, that makes sense. But once the anime tells this arc, it will be made clear that broly > jiren
Going by the summary, the movie recaps some ToP chars, so it is directly linked to the Super anime, so i dont think we need to cross continuities, untill Broly movie gets retold as anime ofc.
Impossible. Blue Kaioken is not in the film.

Ok, then how do you explain the movie mentioning the ToP if it doesnt exist in the movie continuity?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:47 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:The narrative is the Broly > Jiren.

if you want to say LB jiren (anime)> movie broly, then sure if you cross continuities, that makes sense. But once the anime tells this arc, it will be made clear that broly > jiren
Not with the kinds of feats they displayed here.
Just when they started (base gogeta and ssj broly) their sheer power send them through dimensions, which they kept shattering as they fought) this was some hakaishin level shit, done by their far weaker selfs

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:54 pm

buutenks wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
buutenks wrote:
Going by the summary, the movie recaps some ToP chars, so it is directly linked to the Super anime, so i dont think we need to cross continuities, untill Broly movie gets retold as anime ofc.

Partly. There's no blue evolution or kaioken in the film and Beerus seems to be held up as the standard unlike in the anime where it was jiren.

Ye i guess, not fully but it is connected a bit.

Still tho, if they screw up the animation on the retelling it will be bad, very bad. From the summary, the animation is 10/10. Considering BoG and RoF retellings, lord have mercy.... :(
ZombieVito wrote:
buutenks wrote:
Going by the summary, the movie recaps some ToP chars, so it is directly linked to the Super anime, so i dont think we need to cross continuities, untill Broly movie gets retold as anime ofc.
Impossible. Blue Kaioken is not in the film.

Ok, then how do you explain the movie mentioning the ToP if it doesnt exist in the movie continuity?
I'm not saying the ToP didn't happen but this movie can't happen in the anime continuity. There's no reason at all for Goku to not use Kaioken.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:24 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:Miracles...

I would hug you and kiss you if i knew you.
You stayed strong with your believe that beerus > UI goku and jiren, and in the end, it turned out true.

Apperantly broly is te first ever antagonist to ne said to be at least as strong as beerus, and the statement about goku being almost a god seems to have been for UI being behind beerus still.

Gogeta seems to be the first mortal evel to completely surpass hakaishin tier. Apperanrly he treated full power broly as bad as manga vegito did zamasu (of course it was blue gogeta)


Congratulations miracles.
Well thank you Kenneth. I appreciate your modesty. It's just a cartoon no one lost or won. I will wait for official subs or Herms to clarify truly what was said in the movie.

Now you know, even this films statement concerning Beerus doesn't even prove anything either.

Beerus must be surpassed physically in a fight or outright stated. He is Goku's goal, a story fact from the start.
Last edited by Miracles on Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:42 pm

So knowing now ho huge the gap between blue gogeta and Lss broly is, its possible UI is below fusion. I mean, heroes has its own story, while toriyama has his own canon one, where a blue fusion makes jiren look like dust.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:47 pm

Does this mean SSBKK got retconned or is Toei still gonna use it in their retelling?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:59 pm

Nevaeh wrote:Does this mean SSBKK got retconned or is Toei still gonna use it in their retelling?
Who knows. Three cases: new Super anime will ignore SSBKK and SSBE completely; new Super anime will keep using them without giving a care to the world; new Super anime will retell Broly movie adding in SBKK and SSBE.

Either way I think it's safe to just assume Goku and Vegeta are max power against Broly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:33 pm

Was it already confirmed that the movie will be retold in the anime?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:33 pm

shadd21 wrote:Was it already confirmed that the movie will be retold in the anime?
No, but I think it is very likely. In this case they kind of need to in order to reconcile things.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:42 pm

So it seems i was right all along guys!

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=42642

It seems, (according to the spoilers) that Broly will literally “unlock” his Super Saiyan transformations within this movie for the first time, and thus, as a logical result, was unable to tap into them on his own at will before.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:00 pm

With all this goalpost shifting regarding Beerus’ power, i’m inclined to believe Beerus only used less than 20% of his power against SSG Goku during BoG.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RecolorSaiyan » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:05 pm

shadd21 wrote:With all this goalpost shifting regarding Beerus’ power, i’m inclined to believe Beerus only used less than 20% of his power against SSG Goku during BoG.

Try like .00000002% of his power

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:46 pm

As much as I try to stay away from this thread, I do have to wonder something. Exactly how much stronger does Beerus have to be compared to all the other Gods of Destruction in order for him to still be far above Goku? The manga suggested that Belmod/Vermouth was by no means one of the weaker GoDs, and the anime suggested that he beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Why exactly does Beerus need to continue being the goalpost even after Goku unlocked a technique that the Gods fear?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:12 pm

WittyUsername wrote:As much as I try to stay away from this thread, I do have to wonder something. Exactly how much stronger does Beerus have to be compared to all the other Gods of Destruction in order for him to still be far above Goku? The manga suggested that Belmod/Vermouth was by no means one of the weaker GoDs, and the anime suggested that he beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Why exactly does Beerus need to continue being the goalpost even after Goku unlocked a technique that the Gods fear?
He doesn't have to be stronger than them at all, in fact in both versions we know he's not the strongest. He's only stronger than Goku by means of the latter not being able to access UI. The whole reason Goku doesn't use UI in this movie or likely in any post-ToP material is that he'd be able to fodderize Beerus, there's no point in getting rid of the form otherwise.

Anyway from the spoiler it's confirmed:

SSB Gogeta >= LSS Broly > SS Gogeta >= SS Broly > SSB Goku/Vegeta = Ikari Broly > SSG Goku/Vegeta > Powered Up Base Broly = SS Goku/Vegeta > Base Goku/Vegeta >= Initial Base Broly

So apparently the difference between Super Saiyan Fusion and base is much greater than the difference between Super Saiyan Blue and base. So for example, SS Gotenks is stronger than a hypothetical SSB Trunks. I feel vindicated in thinking that the SSG/SSB multiplier has been exaggerated. Then again it could just be Toei's normal nonsense, I dunno.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:45 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:As much as I try to stay away from this thread, I do have to wonder something. Exactly how much stronger does Beerus have to be compared to all the other Gods of Destruction in order for him to still be far above Goku? The manga suggested that Belmod/Vermouth was by no means one of the weaker GoDs, and the anime suggested that he beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Why exactly does Beerus need to continue being the goalpost even after Goku unlocked a technique that the Gods fear?
He doesn't have to be stronger than them at all, in fact in both versions we know he's not the strongest. He's only stronger than Goku by means of the latter not being able to access UI. The whole reason Goku doesn't use UI in this movie or likely in any post-ToP material is that he'd be able to fodderize Beerus, there's no point in getting rid of the form otherwise.

Anyway from the spoiler it's confirmed:

SSB Gogeta >= LSS Broly > SS Gogeta >= SS Broly > SSB Goku/Vegeta = Ikari Broly > SSG Goku/Vegeta > Powered Up Base Broly = SS Goku/Vegeta > Base Goku/Vegeta >= Initial Base Broly

So apparently the difference between Super Saiyan Fusion and base is much greater than the difference between Super Saiyan Blue and base. So for example, SS Gotenks is stronger than a hypothetical SSB Trunks. I feel vindicated in thinking that the SSG/SSB multiplier has been exaggerated. Then again it could just be Toei's normal nonsense, I dunno.
I’d like to think that them making UI a form that Goku can’t access at will was an attempt at keeping him below Beerus’ level for just a little longer, and that when Goku masters the form, he is above Beerus, but I’ve also been hearing that Broly is also apparently supposed to be more powerful than Jiren, which doesn’t seem like it would make much sense going by the spoilers that I (regretfully) heard about.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:12 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:As much as I try to stay away from this thread, I do have to wonder something. Exactly how much stronger does Beerus have to be compared to all the other Gods of Destruction in order for him to still be far above Goku? The manga suggested that Belmod/Vermouth was by no means one of the weaker GoDs, and the anime suggested that he beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match. Why exactly does Beerus need to continue being the goalpost even after Goku unlocked a technique that the Gods fear?
He doesn't have to be stronger than them at all, in fact in both versions we know he's not the strongest. He's only stronger than Goku by means of the latter not being able to access UI. The whole reason Goku doesn't use UI in this movie or likely in any post-ToP material is that he'd be able to fodderize Beerus, there's no point in getting rid of the form otherwise.

Anyway from the spoiler it's confirmed:

SSB Gogeta >= LSS Broly > SS Gogeta >= SS Broly > SSB Goku/Vegeta = Ikari Broly > SSG Goku/Vegeta > Powered Up Base Broly = SS Goku/Vegeta > Base Goku/Vegeta >= Initial Base Broly

So apparently the difference between Super Saiyan Fusion and base is much greater than the difference between Super Saiyan Blue and base. So for example, SS Gotenks is stronger than a hypothetical SSB Trunks. I feel vindicated in thinking that the SSG/SSB multiplier has been exaggerated. Then again it could just be Toei's normal nonsense, I dunno.
I’d like to think that them making UI a form that Goku can’t access at will was an attempt at keeping him below Beerus’ level for just a little longer, and that when Goku masters the form, he is above Beerus, but I’ve also been hearing that Broly is also apparently supposed to be more powerful than Jiren, which doesn’t seem like it would make much sense going by the spoilers that I (regretfully) heard about.
Wasn't it confirmed in the film that MUI is still below Beerus? I don't see the point in restricting the from Goku if that's the case.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:18 pm

shadd21 wrote:
WittyUsername wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote: He doesn't have to be stronger than them at all, in fact in both versions we know he's not the strongest. He's only stronger than Goku by means of the latter not being able to access UI. The whole reason Goku doesn't use UI in this movie or likely in any post-ToP material is that he'd be able to fodderize Beerus, there's no point in getting rid of the form otherwise.

Anyway from the spoiler it's confirmed:

SSB Gogeta >= LSS Broly > SS Gogeta >= SS Broly > SSB Goku/Vegeta = Ikari Broly > SSG Goku/Vegeta > Powered Up Base Broly = SS Goku/Vegeta > Base Goku/Vegeta >= Initial Base Broly

So apparently the difference between Super Saiyan Fusion and base is much greater than the difference between Super Saiyan Blue and base. So for example, SS Gotenks is stronger than a hypothetical SSB Trunks. I feel vindicated in thinking that the SSG/SSB multiplier has been exaggerated. Then again it could just be Toei's normal nonsense, I dunno.
I’d like to think that them making UI a form that Goku can’t access at will was an attempt at keeping him below Beerus’ level for just a little longer, and that when Goku masters the form, he is above Beerus, but I’ve also been hearing that Broly is also apparently supposed to be more powerful than Jiren, which doesn’t seem like it would make much sense going by the spoilers that I (regretfully) heard about.
Wasn't it confirmed in the film that MUI is still below Beerus? I don't see the point in restricting the from Goku if that's the case.
I don’t know but if that is the case, I don’t see why they bothered hyping up the form as something that even the Gods couldn’t obtain, or why they’re treating it like it’s any different from any of Goku’s other transformations. At least when Super Saiyan Blue was introduced, it was clear that it was just a shiny new toy for Goku and Vegeta, hence why they spammed the hell out of the form afterwards.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:20 pm

RecolorSaiyan wrote:
shadd21 wrote:With all this goalpost shifting regarding Beerus’ power, i’m inclined to believe Beerus only used less than 20% of his power against SSG Goku during BoG.

Try like .00000002% of his power
Nah more like .0000000000000000000000000001% of his power. And i’m not even joking. They might even retcon his strength again at a later point in the story to where he is then above SSJ Blue Gogeta and Broly combined.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by TheUltimateNinja » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:30 pm

My prediction came true after all. They're going to say, "He might even be stronger than Beerus" about every antagonist from this point onward.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:36 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
RecolorSaiyan wrote:
shadd21 wrote:With all this goalpost shifting regarding Beerus’ power, i’m inclined to believe Beerus only used less than 20% of his power against SSG Goku during BoG.

Try like .00000002% of his power
Nah more like .0000000000000000000000000001% of his power. And i’m not even joking. They might even retcon his strength again at a later point in the story to where he is then above SSJ Blue Gogeta and Broly combined.
At this point, they might as well establish that a hypothetical Ultra Instinct Gogeta wouldn’t even be 1% as strong as Beerus at half of his power.

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