Yeah, probably it would make sense if Gohan clarified he couldn’t use his “full power” mode when they fought Beerus, but it seems that was a plot point only for the Freeza’s return up until the Tournament of Power.Bullza wrote:it didn't make much sense that 4 years after Buu he could still use his Ultimate form but 5 years later and now he only thinks he can still turn Super Saiyan.
Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
It was always Ultimate. The director even said that it wasn't going to be Super Saiyan. And he was clearly Ultimate even in the retelling. Before you say 'he didn't have the bang', the bang being a visual cue for Ultimate was only a thing in the TOP. The bang was just Gohan's hairstyle in the Buu Saga.Bullza wrote:
Well it was Ultimate in the movie but I think that originally wasn't meant to be Ultimate and they had to recolour it at the last moment.
Obviously that movie came out before they said in the next movie he'd been slacking off on his training. So I would guess for the retelling they didn't have Gohan use his Ultimate form so it flowed better going into the next saga because it didn't make much sense that 4 years after Buu he could still use his Ultimate form but 5 years later and now he only thinks he can still turn Super Saiyan.
He didnt have the Ultimate form appearance either which they have clearly established as having the bang nor was it referred to when he was trying to get back.
So I do think that was something they changed.
The fact is, no one in Battle of Gods, movie or retelling, claimed that Gohan was weaker, unlike in Resurrection 'F' where everyone was surprised that Gohan didn't have Ultimate. Which makes no sense if he couldn't do it even a year ago.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Well you don't know that it was "only" for the TOP. Gohan had the same hairstyle during the Battle of Gods Saga and the TOP. Yet the one where we know for sure he used the Ultimate form he had the bang and the other he did not.HeroR wrote:Before you say 'he didn't have the bang', the bang being a visual cue for Ultimate was only a thing in the TOP. The bang was just Gohan's hairstyle in the Buu Saga.
He wouldn't have to be. He'd just be the same strength in the same forms except he didn't use Ultimate form in that one instance.The fact is, no one in Battle of Gods, movie or retelling, claimed that Gohan was weaker, unlike in Resurrection 'F' where everyone was surprised that Gohan didn't have Ultimate.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I just have Ultimate Gohan in BoG to be a weakened one since it's implied SS3 Goku was the strongest Beerus faced before SS2 Vegeta [Quake of Fury].
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I don’t think that was implied at all. And Beerus also fought Gotenks too, who would be stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The bang is just Gohan’s hairstyles since in the Battle of Gods movie, he had the bang before he even went Ultimate and his Super Saiyan form. The bang didn’t mean Ultimate until the TOP and specifically the anime TOP because Ultimate Gohan in the Super manga has no bang.Bullza wrote:Well you don't know that it was "only" for the TOP. Gohan had the same hairstyle during the Battle of Gods Saga and the TOP. Yet the one where we know for sure he used the Ultimate form he had the bang and the other he did not.HeroR wrote:Before you say 'he didn't have the bang', the bang being a visual cue for Ultimate was only a thing in the TOP. The bang was just Gohan's hairstyle in the Buu Saga.
He wouldn't have to be. He'd just be the same strength in the same forms except he didn't use Ultimate form in that one instance.The fact is, no one in Battle of Gods, movie or retelling, claimed that Gohan was weaker, unlike in Resurrection 'F' where everyone was surprised that Gohan didn't have Ultimate.
Why wouldn’t he not used Ultimate after he saw Beerus wipe Buu and Gotenks with ease? That literally makes no sense.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The implications was that Goku himself got much stronger since nothing in the Battle of Gods movie or even the retelling states or implies Gohan got weaker.ZombieVito wrote:I just have Ultimate Gohan in BoG to be a weakened one since it's implied SS3 Goku was the strongest Beerus faced before SS2 Vegeta [Quake of Fury].
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Something I noticed from the Broly movie points to the battle between Super Saiyans Gogeta and Broly being much more even than their later class of SSB and SSFP.
When Gogeta and Broly have their initial clash that breaks through dimensions, Broly seems perfectly fine and goes right after Gogeta again. However, when they clash once again and break out of the dimension, SSFP Broly is sent flying away from the collision of fists and left shaking himself off a bit as he emerges back in reality; Gpgeta doesn't seem any worse for where.
I think this is further evidence that suggests that SS Broly and Gogeta are relative to one another while SSB Gogeta is clearly ahead of SSFP Broly.
When Gogeta and Broly have their initial clash that breaks through dimensions, Broly seems perfectly fine and goes right after Gogeta again. However, when they clash once again and break out of the dimension, SSFP Broly is sent flying away from the collision of fists and left shaking himself off a bit as he emerges back in reality; Gpgeta doesn't seem any worse for where.
I think this is further evidence that suggests that SS Broly and Gogeta are relative to one another while SSB Gogeta is clearly ahead of SSFP Broly.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I know that but I prefer for him to degrade over time isntead of randomly in RoF.HeroR wrote:The implications was that Goku himself got much stronger since nothing in the Battle of Gods movie or even the retelling states or implies Gohan got weaker.ZombieVito wrote:I just have Ultimate Gohan in BoG to be a weakened one since it's implied SS3 Goku was the strongest Beerus faced before SS2 Vegeta [Quake of Fury].
If not then he was fine for 4 years and then out of nowhere he loses his Ultimate form at the 5th year? Doesn't really make sense.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
You don't know that though. That's just an assumption that only at that point did the decide to portray it that way in the anime. That is the Ultimate look as far as the anime is concerned, he had it in Z, he had in Battle of Gods, he had it in the Tournament of Power but not the Battle of Gods Saga.HeroR wrote:The bang didn’t mean Ultimate until the TOP.
When he reobtaining the form, they mentioned and showed him at the time when he definitely had it when he fought Buu. Nothing was said abhim having it against Beerus.
For the same reason Gotenks didn't use Super Saiyan 3 against Beerus.Why wouldn’t he not used Ultimate after he saw Beerus wipe Buu and Gotenks with ease? That literally makes no sense.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Gohan isn't the best paragon for strength comparisons, as his whole stitch always been having a massive latent power limited by his mental state-
that's why few hours of training to "re-awake his battle senses" were enough to have him go from mediocre vs Lavander to Blue(or at very least God)-class
He likely never stopped having the power of Ultimate vs Buu, he just stopped tapping into it because psychological reasons.
that's why few hours of training to "re-awake his battle senses" were enough to have him go from mediocre vs Lavander to Blue(or at very least God)-class
He likely never stopped having the power of Ultimate vs Buu, he just stopped tapping into it because psychological reasons.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
It isn’t an assumption when the Super manga doesn’t even used it. The bang is literally just Gohan’s hair style from the Buu Saga. He had it before he became Ultimate and Gohan had that bang in the Battle of Gods movie in both his normal and Super Saiyan form.Bullza wrote:You don't know that though. That's just an assumption that only at that point did the decide to portray it that way in the anime. That is the Ultimate look as far as the anime is concerned, he had it in Z, he had in Battle of Gods, he had it in the Tournament of Power but not the Battle of Gods Saga.HeroR wrote:The bang didn’t mean Ultimate until the TOP.
When he reobtaining the form, they mentioned and showed him at the time when he definitely had it when he fought Buu. Nothing was said abhim having it against Beerus.
For the same reason Gotenks didn't use Super Saiyan 3 against Beerus.Why wouldn’t he not used Ultimate after he saw Beerus wipe Buu and Gotenks with ease? That literally makes no sense.
They only showed Buu because Piccolo was talking about how Gohan screwed up there.
Gotenks is a cocky idiot. So again I asked, why would Gohan hold back his strongest form after he saw Gotenks and Buu go down. Even more, Gotenks used Super Saiyan 3 in the Super manga that also had no bangs Ultimate Gohan.
Kanassa wrote:Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
When they began fighting, SSJ Broly was same level as Base gogeta. Gogeta goes Ssj to completely dominate Broly and he did that for huge portion of the fight. Later Broly powered up again and matches Ssj gogeta's Speed. From there on they fight almost evenly, clearly Gogeta had the advantage as he is infinitely more skilled and experienced than Broly. When Broly first transformed into his fp Ssj or lssj , I think he may have equalled Gogeta SSG in that state forcing Gogeta to use Suppressed PSsb to regain the huge advantage and he did so for all remaining fight. Later when Broly reached his Fp lssj state after surviving stardust ball he blocked SSB gogeta's two kicks and forced Gogeta to use his full power , maybe movie and Manga version of ssbe and continuously clobbered him with all attacks without giving him any chance to power up. That was brutal and efficient and he was even able to frighten Broly.PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:Something I noticed from the Broly movie points to the battle between Super Saiyans Gogeta and Broly being much more even than their later class of SSB and SSFP.
When Gogeta and Broly have their initial clash that breaks through dimensions, Broly seems perfectly fine and goes right after Gogeta again. However, when they clash once again and break out of the dimension, SSFP Broly is sent flying away from the collision of fists and left shaking himself off a bit as he emerges back in reality; Gpgeta doesn't seem any worse for where.
I think this is further evidence that suggests that SS Broly and Gogeta are relative to one another while SSB Gogeta is clearly ahead of SSFP Broly.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
But he didn't have that hair style or a bang in the Battle of Gods and Universe Survival Saga.HeroR wrote:The bang is literally just Gohan’s hair style from the Buu Saga. He had it before he became Ultimate and Gohan had that bang in the Battle of Gods movie in both his normal and Super Saiyan form.
Yet in the latter when he unarguably used his Ultimate form, he had a bang. In the former he did not have a bang. So there's a difference between the two occasions and he wouldn't seem to have used his Ultimate form against Beerus because he would have had the same bang he had against Piccolo, Goku, Obuni, Frieza etc.
Saying that Toei only decided at that point to give the form a bang would be the assumption.
He went Super Saiyan for Tagoma and he went Super Saiyan 3 for Copy Vegeta. Why didn't he transform for Beerus if he saw him easily defeat Buu?Gotenks is a cocky idiot..
Why didn't Vegeta turn into a Super Saiyan 2 when he fought Beerus in the movie?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Vegeta didn't use SS2 in the movie?Bullza wrote: He went Super Saiyan for Tagoma and he went Super Saiyan 3 for Copy Vegeta. Why didn't he transform for Beerus if he saw him easily defeat Buu?
Why didn't Vegeta turn into a Super Saiyan 2 when he fought Beerus in the movie?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Well he didn't have the blue sparks or hair style of Super Saiyan 2. He was a Super Saiyan 2 in the anime though.ZombieVito wrote:Vegeta didn't use SS2 in the movie?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
The movie just didn't use them. SSJ2 and 3 Goku didn't have the sparks from what I can recall.Bullza wrote:Well he didn't have the blue sparks or hair style of Super Saiyan 2. He was a Super Saiyan 2 in the anime though.ZombieVito wrote:Vegeta didn't use SS2 in the movie?
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Did Goku even go Super Saiyan 2?Sora Saiyan wrote:The movie just didn't use them. SSJ2 and 3 Goku didn't have the sparks from what I can recall.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
Sora Saiyan wrote:The movie just didn't use them. SSJ2 and 3 Goku didn't have the sparks from what I can recall.Bullza wrote:Well he didn't have the blue sparks or hair style of Super Saiyan 2. He was a Super Saiyan 2 in the anime though.ZombieVito wrote:Vegeta didn't use SS2 in the movie?
Bullza wrote:Did Goku even go Super Saiyan 2?Sora Saiyan wrote:The movie just didn't use them. SSJ2 and 3 Goku didn't have the sparks from what I can recall.
Sora Saiyan is right. No sparks for Super Saiyan two or Super Saiyan three in Toriyama's film.
Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread
I forgot about that scene but when he does turn Super Saiyan 2 you do actually see a blue spark and he has the correct hair style.
Vegeta had neither.
Vegeta had neither.