Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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shadd21
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 am

So...
Moro = Gogeta Blue?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:32 am

shadd21 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 am So...
Moro = Gogeta Blue?
Fuck that, what about him getting his massive beard reduced?
Is Toyotaro saying the less beard you have the more powerful you are??
Like some sort of reverse Samson?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 am

dbgtFO wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:32 am
shadd21 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 am So...
Moro = Gogeta Blue?
Fuck that, what about him getting his massive beard reduced?
Is Toyotaro saying the less beard you have the more powerful you are??
Like some sort of reverse Samson?
Well considering he had no beard when he fought against the Kaioshin, he's gonna lose his beard totally when he hits his true prime. What a peculiar way of handling his beard.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Amir » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:15 am

Miracles wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:30 pm I've seen some people claim Broly's "growth is limitless." That's just wrong. It's the same mistake a lot of people made with Hit. Broly had limits in each mode...His base limit was Super Saiyan level, Oozaru form was Blue level, Super Saiyan was way above Blue, His Legendary form was enough to force a Goku and Vegeta fusion to use full power Blue. Then he had nothing left, reaching his limit against Gogeta.
That's accurate. Why can't more people understand that?

If Broly had more power he would have just surpassed Gogeta Blue.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:35 am

PFM18 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:50 pm The stickers have proven themselves to be inaccurate so we shouldn't trust them. There's several examples of this.
Care to provide substance to these claims?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:17 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:35 am
PFM18 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:50 pm The stickers have proven themselves to be inaccurate so we shouldn't trust them. There's several examples of this.
Care to provide substance to these claims?
Already gave one example. There's several others if you even so much as gloss over it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 am

Sora Saiyan wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 am
dbgtFO wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:32 am
shadd21 wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:51 am So...
Moro = Gogeta Blue?
Fuck that, what about him getting his massive beard reduced?
Is Toyotaro saying the less beard you have the more powerful you are??
Like some sort of reverse Samson?
Well considering he had no beard when he fought against the Kaioshin, he's gonna lose his beard totally when he hits his true prime. What a peculiar way of handling his beard.
That’s quite a bold statement. How do you know he had no beard in the first manga chapter of this arc when he was battling the Dai-Kaioshin? You couldn’t see wether he had a beard or not because he was wearing that thing on his head.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:59 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 am
Sora Saiyan wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 am Well considering he had no beard when he fought against the Kaioshin, he's gonna lose his beard totally when he hits his true prime. What a peculiar way of handling his beard.
That’s quite a bold statement. How do you know he had no beard in the first manga chapter of this arc when he was battling the Dai-Kaioshin? You couldn’t see wether he had a beard or not because he was wearing that thing on his head.
Because you see his chin protruding from his hood in the battle with the Kaioshin and theres no beard attached, this is shown a few times, but there's one panel in particular that is from the side, and it's very clear that there's no beard. Later wee see that his beard is attached to his chin, coupled with the fact his beard is shrinking it seems almost certain it's gonna be gone.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:30 am

Sora Saiyan wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:59 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 am
Sora Saiyan wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:51 am Well considering he had no beard when he fought against the Kaioshin, he's gonna lose his beard totally when he hits his true prime. What a peculiar way of handling his beard.
That’s quite a bold statement. How do you know he had no beard in the first manga chapter of this arc when he was battling the Dai-Kaioshin? You couldn’t see wether he had a beard or not because he was wearing that thing on his head.
Because you see his chin protruding from his hood in the battle with the Kaioshin and theres no beard attached, this is shown a few times, but there's one panel in particular that is from the side, and it's very clear that there's no beard. Later wee see that his beard is attached to his chin, coupled with the fact his beard is shrinking it seems almost certain it's gonna be gone.
Hmmmm i see it now. I thought maybe it was much closer to his throat, but the old Moro has hair on his chin indeed. Makes you wonder how the Kaioshins were even able to survive against this dude at max power. I guess it’s just bad writing then.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Jmass97 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:54 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:29 pm
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:35 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:20 pm I don't see a cap for him yet, especially since Goku and vegeta don't have one and broly is basically a God of saiyan potential. If it were any other enemy, then yeah, but this is a saiyan. Saiyans and limits don't go well together.
I mean obviously, there's no limit to how much stronger they CAN get.

We're just talking about at the immediate moment in the fights they've been in. Currently, everyone is at a stable level they haven't flown past yet.
Exactly. The events of DBS: Broly probably gave Broly the power he needed, but since Goku and Vegeta didn't really seem to gain any new powers (they simply went 100% against Broly) and with them using Fusion, I doubt that a "Post-Broly Goku or Vegeta" would be much different to a "Pre-Broly Goku or Vegeta". The ToP is the perfect example of the polar opposite.

At least, that is how I view it.
Well to be fair, the one page manga summary of the events of Broly did state that Goku and Vegeta did indeed come out of that battle stronger than ever. Even if it isn’t by much they did get a gradual increase in power.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:04 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:35 am
PFM18 wrote: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:50 pm The stickers have proven themselves to be inaccurate so we shouldn't trust them. There's several examples of this.
Care to provide substance to these claims?
Alright, if you want specific examples.

-It has Aniraza<Golden Freeza, Dyspo, Toppo which is just untrue.
-SSJ2 Goku<SSJ2 Caulifla
-17<Final Form Freeza(!!!!!!!)
-Frost>SSJ2 Caulifla
-SSG Vegeta<Ikari Broly
-SSB Gogeta=LSSJ Broly(When it was clear SSB Gogeta>>>>>>LSSJ Broly)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:10 pm

SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta’s 9,000, Anilasa’s 7,500 and Broly’s 7,000 are the only examples I recognize at the moment. SS2 Goku’s 5,800 is from Boo Arc, same number given to Majin Vegeta, which probably explains why Caulifla has a greater number. There are two No.17 stickers, in one of them he is stronger than Freeza. Frost doesn’t have a single sticker, there is one of him paired with Freeza. SSB Gogeta now has a sticker that puts him above LSS Broly.

So, out of 11 sets with 17-22 stickers each, which totalizes around 200, we have identified 3 mistakes?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:06 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:10 pm
SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta’s 9,000, Anilasa’s 7,500 and Broly’s 7,000 are the only examples I recognize at the moment. SS2 Goku’s 5,800 is from Boo Arc, same number given to Majin Vegeta, which probably explains why Caulifla has a greater number. There are two No.17 stickers, in one of them he is stronger than Freeza. Frost doesn’t have a single sticker, there is one of him paired with Freeza. SSB Gogeta now has a sticker that puts him above LSS Broly.

So, out of 11 sets with 17-22 stickers each, which totalizes around 200, we have identified 3 mistakes?
No, SSJ2 Goku and Caulifla come in the Same set and have Caulifla higher. They both come in the "Dragon Ball Super Warrior Wafer Z Vol. 5 set"

So what if they have two 17 stickers? One inconspicuously puts him below Freeza. And they are obviously going to have multiple of them, there's several sets. They still represent 17 as below Freeza's true form, which is insane.

Whether you want to call it "Freeza/Frost" or not it doesn't really matter. They still have Frost>SSJ2 Caulifla which is blatantly wrong.

They still had Broly and Gogeta dead even....and I haven't seen this card with a higher value than LSSJ Broly. I saw both of them as 9600, and didn't see any other stickers. You're going to have to show this, I don't see it.

I'm not familiar with all 11 sets, considering I looked at a couple sets and found six mistakes, it's pretty terrible.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:05 pm

Coming from the same set is not indication of them belonging to same point of the story. Practically, all the sets mix about 3-4 arcs. The fact that Majin Vegeta’s number is equal to SS2 Goku’s says it all.

In No.17’s case and everyone else, the stickers have been revised multiple times, probably because their respective placement wasn’t decided at the production phase. I will investigate to which set each one belongs to give a complete answer.

Stickers in pairs represent the combined power of the characters in them, like with Goku and Vegeta or No.18 and Krillin. You could debate if Freeza and Frost together can beat Caulifla without Freeza using his golden form. So, not a blatant error.

The last set has Gogeta with 9,700, which you can find in the previous page of this thread.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:22 pm

Honestly, I'd prefer to not use the wafer stickers simply because they don't really seem all that important.

The numbers are meaningless and inaccurate to the current battle powers, the increments/proportions between numbers inaccurate to the main story, and the actual stickers themselves being more of a fun-thing than anything serious.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:56 pm

Hugo Boss wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:05 pm
Coming from the same set is not indication of them belonging to same point of the story. Practically, all the sets mix about 3-4 arcs. The fact that Majin Vegeta’s number is equal to SS2 Goku’s says it all.

In No.17’s case and everyone else, the stickers have been revised multiple times, probably because their respective placement wasn’t decided at the production phase. I will investigate to which set each one belongs to give a complete answer.

Stickers in pairs represent the combined power of the characters in them, like with Goku and Vegeta or No.18 and Krillin. You could debate if Freeza and Frost together can beat Caulifla without Freeza using his golden form. So, not a blatant error.

The last set has Gogeta with 9,700, which you can find in the previous page of this thread.
Frost can’t even beat Super Saiyan Vegeta who is around the range of Super Saiyan Cabba, and Cali is stronger than Cabba. That and Freeza had to go gold to ring out a tired Super Saiyan 2 Cabba. We know he had to transform since he complained about using any stamina ringing out what he considered trash.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:35 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:22 pm Honestly, I'd prefer to not use the wafer stickers simply because they don't really seem all that important.

The numbers are meaningless and inaccurate to the current battle powers, the increments/proportions between numbers inaccurate to the main story, and the actual stickers themselves being more of a fun-thing than anything serious.
Well, battle powers exist for fun, they are far from being an important stuff. Yet, Bandai has consistently tried to transmit a sense of scale, making little adjusts in each set. It’s just not perfect and never will please all powerlevel theorists. I just don’t see the point of questioning its validity with a few debatable figures in an universe of hundreds.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by BWri » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:05 am

GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:30 am
Sora Saiyan wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:59 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 am
That’s quite a bold statement. How do you know he had no beard in the first manga chapter of this arc when he was battling the Dai-Kaioshin? You couldn’t see wether he had a beard or not because he was wearing that thing on his head.
Because you see his chin protruding from his hood in the battle with the Kaioshin and theres no beard attached, this is shown a few times, but there's one panel in particular that is from the side, and it's very clear that there's no beard. Later wee see that his beard is attached to his chin, coupled with the fact his beard is shrinking it seems almost certain it's gonna be gone.
Hmmmm i see it now. I thought maybe it was much closer to his throat, but the old Moro has hair on his chin indeed. Makes you wonder how the Kaioshins were even able to survive against this dude at max power. I guess it’s just bad writing then.
Sorry to cut in here, but I just had to make it known that this is an awesome bit of conversation. I applaud the two of you for your journalistic integrity and your work ethic for getting to the bottom of the mystery of Moro's disappearing beard. Now I can sleep at night knowing that the GOATs beard shrinks the more he powers up. Thank You :clap:
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:14 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:35 pm
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:22 pm Honestly, I'd prefer to not use the wafer stickers simply because they don't really seem all that important.

The numbers are meaningless and inaccurate to the current battle powers, the increments/proportions between numbers inaccurate to the main story, and the actual stickers themselves being more of a fun-thing than anything serious.
Well, battle powers exist for fun, they are far from being an important stuff. Yet, Bandai has consistently tried to transmit a sense of scale, making little adjusts in each set. It’s just not perfect and never will please all powerlevel theorists. I just don’t see the point of questioning its validity with a few debatable figures in an universe of hundreds.
The thing is, they're not even noted down in things like guidebooks or whatnot. They aren't represented in the show itself, nor the video games or other adaptations.

They're just stickers, stickers with meaningless numbers. We're better off just not using them and sticking to the actual stuff we see and hear; certainly avoids debating about their validity, since we can all agree that the show and manga come first. These stickers are lower priority than video game fluff as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:43 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:14 am The thing is, they're not even noted down in things like guidebooks or whatnot. They aren't represented in the show itself, nor the video games or other adaptations.

They're just stickers, stickers with meaningless numbers. We're better off just not using them and sticking to the actual stuff we see and hear; certainly avoids debating about their validity, since we can all agree that the show and manga come first. These stickers are lower priority than video game fluff as far as I'm concerned.
Just to clarify. I’m not claiming they take precedence over the stuff you are talking about. It’s just that powerscalling in general is meaningless and those stickers help to give a direction to some of controversial stuff. Everyone is entitled to use or not use them. For the sake of information, this is the place they can be brought up. And as the new sets come I will try to keep you updated and debate what could be discussed.

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