Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[SupremeKai25]

Vegetto did a power-up sequence in the anime and then proceeded to completely dominate Merged Zamasu before de-fusing.

After Fused Zamasu became so big that he couldn't keep up with Vegito in terms of speed.

[Hugo Boss]

He mastered the technique as the episode title suggests. What he didn’t do was master the form that allowed him to used UI to begin with.

Episode title? Goku himself told he can’t use Ultra Instinct anymore. Goku mastering Ultra Instinct is a DB Heroes thing only.

[Miracles]

Vegetto did a power-up sequence in the anime and then proceeded to completely dominate Merged Zamasu before de-fusing.

After Fused Zamasu became so big that he couldn't keep up with Vegito in terms of speed.

True fact. That was noted by Vegetto. Gowasu/Shin also stated that Zamas body was falling apart when he increased in size.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Vegetto did a power-up sequence in the anime and then proceeded to completely dominate Merged Zamasu before de-fusing.

After Fused Zamasu became so big that he couldn't keep up with Vegito in terms of speed.

Watchee the episode... saw nothing implying his form hindered his speed. At all. None.

Vegito was just simply too powerful for merged zamasu.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Vegetto did a power-up sequence in the anime and then proceeded to completely dominate Merged Zamasu before de-fusing.

After Fused Zamasu became so big that he couldn't keep up with Vegito in terms of speed.

Watchee the episode... saw nothing implying his form hindered his speed. At all. None.

Vegito was just simply too powerful for merged zamasu.

When Vegito is on the offense and Merged Zamasu is blocking, Vegito taunts the spouty god by saying wondering why all his rage in his body can't keep up with his speed.

[PFM18]

Since in the anime Vegito Blue was only a little stronger than Merged Zamasu, that means that Jiren in 110 was probably stronger than Vegito Blue. So scaling wise based on statements, Goku would be within the power range of Vegito Blue if not stronger.

That's not true at all. Vegetto did a power-up sequence in the anime and then proceeded to completely dominate Merged Zamasu before de-fusing. And the comments about him being strong were in reference to him being super suppressed and STILL being able to overpower Goku at his best, not that he was stronger than anything they had seen before at that particular time. Otherwise, 123 Goku would have to have been literally a minimum of 40,000x stronger than his FT arc self for him to surpass his previous Vegetto self considering that Base Vegetto~SSB Goku holds true.

Vegito didn’t power-up, Zamasu did and he survived a point blank Final Kamehameha. So it wasn’t a dominantion, otherwise Zamasu’s body should have been destroyed by Vegito.

You're just factually incorrect. Vegetto had an abundantly clear power-uo sequence where they literally show his aura flare up with white lightning around him as the camera zoomed out. He most definitely DID have a power-up that much is undeniable.

Yes, Merged Zamasu survived the FKHH, but he was otherwise completely dominated after the power-up, and it is certainly worth noting that Zamasu had regeneration.

[Miracles]

After Fused Zamasu became so big that he couldn't keep up with Vegito in terms of speed.

Watchee the episode... saw nothing implying his form hindered his speed. At all. None.

Vegito was just simply too powerful for merged zamasu.

When Vegito is on the offense and Merged Zamasu is blocking, Vegito taunts the spouty god by saying wondering why all his rage in his body can't keep up with his speed.

A true plot point. Even Gowasu substantiates Vegetto's statement by saying Zamas isn't powering up but falling apart due to his complex emotions.

The truth is, Vegetto and Zamas were evenly matched. Neither one beat the other.

[PFM18]

The truth is, Vegetto and Zamas were evenly matched. Neither one beat the other.

Frankly, I would rewatch the fight if I were you. I felt the same way until I rewatched it and realized it simply isnt the case.

[Miracles]

The truth is, Vegetto and Zamas were evenly matched. Neither one beat the other.

Frankly, I would rewatch the fight if I were you. I felt the same way until I rewatched it and realized it simply isnt the case.

I just re watched the fight. They trade back and forth with Vegetto in the end combo's giant Zamas into a piece of slab and fires his strongest attack in Final Kameha and Zamas tanks it! Then Vegetto punches him and he diffuses which Zamas responds by punching Goku and Vegeta.

The outcome was still the same, they were even. Zamas was even falling apart as the battle waged on too.

[SupremeKai25]

Vegetto did a power-up sequence in the anime and then proceeded to completely dominate Merged Zamasu before de-fusing.

After Fused Zamasu became so big that he couldn't keep up with Vegito in terms of speed.

Watchee the episode... saw nothing implying his form hindered his speed. At all. None.

Vegito was just simply too powerful for merged zamasu.

I've lost count of how many times I rewatched that episode, and I distinctly recall seeing Vegito remark how Fused Zamasu's body, seeped in all that rage, wasn't fast enough to keep up with him. Even from a mere logical standpoint, most of the times, if not always, when a character becomes bigger, they become slower as well. Vegeta, Future Trunks, Perfect Cell, Bergamo, they all did this. Having astonishing strength is irrelevant if you are too slow to even hit your opponent.

Also, when Gowasu and Shin were talking about Fused Zamasu's mental state, for a moment Vegito and Fused Zamasu could be seen locked in a struggle, even though Fused Zamasu had already increased his size by that point.

[ZombieVito]

So we are ignoring statements from characters now?

[PFM18]

The truth is, Vegetto and Zamas were evenly matched. Neither one beat the other.

Frankly, I would rewatch the fight if I were you. I felt the same way until I rewatched it and realized it simply isnt the case.

I just re watched the fight. They trade back and forth with Vegetto in the end combo's giant Zamas into a piece of slab and fires his strongest attack in Final Kameha and Zamas tanks it! Then Vegetto punches him and he diffuses which Zamas responds by punching Goku and Vegeta.

The outcome was still the same, they were even. Zamas was even falling apart as the battle waged on too.

The outcome was not the same. After Vegetto's power-up, Zamasu did not land a single hit and was literally completely dominated in every way until he defused.

[ZombieVito]

Frankly, I would rewatch the fight if I were you. I felt the same way until I rewatched it and realized it simply isnt the case.

I just re watched the fight. They trade back and forth with Vegetto in the end combo's giant Zamas into a piece of slab and fires his strongest attack in Final Kameha and Zamas tanks it! Then Vegetto punches him and he diffuses which Zamas responds by punching Goku and Vegeta.

The outcome was still the same, they were even. Zamas was even falling apart as the battle waged on too.

The outcome was not the same. After Vegetto's power-up, Zamasu did not land a single hit and was literally completely dominated in every way until he defused.

Completely dominated that they clashed fists again?

Why are you ignoring Vegetto saying he was faster?

[SupremeKai25]

Here's a video of the second part of the fight between Fused Zamasu and Vegito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfLf2XNp5g

Watch this video starting from the minute 1.25. That's when Fused Zamasu powers-up and increases his size exponentially, followed by Vegito who also powers up. Right after that scene, Vegito and Fused Zamasu are seen fighting evenly around the minute 1.50. Then when Gowasu is explaining how Fused Zamasu is breaking apart both mentally and phisically, there's also a close-up of Fused Zamasu's face where it can be seen that he is grunting and having a rough time, but he is holding on against Vegito instead of being pushed back. This is striking evidence that tells me that Fused Zamasu's problem wasn't the lack of strength, but the lack of speed.

And as already said before, if Vegito was so much stronger than Fused Zamasu, why didn't his Final Kamehameha blow him to smithereens? In the manga, Fused Zamasu was much weaker than Vegito, and indeed Vegito was literally tearing Fused Zamasu apart, in one scene he literally obliterated half of his body because his attack was so much stronger. Being invincible doesn't give you the ability to avoid physical damage. Yet Fused Zamasu was left unscathed by Vegito's Final Kamehameha despite the fact that Vegito was supposedly so much stronger?

[Miracles]

Frankly, I would rewatch the fight if I were you. I felt the same way until I rewatched it and realized it simply isnt the case.

I just re watched the fight. They trade back and forth with Vegetto in the end combo's giant Zamas into a piece of slab and fires his strongest attack in Final Kameha and Zamas tanks it! Then Vegetto punches him and he diffuses which Zamas responds by punching Goku and Vegeta.

The outcome was still the same, they were even. Zamas was even falling apart as the battle waged on too.

The outcome was not the same. After Vegetto's power-up, Zamasu did not land a single hit and was literally completely dominated in every way until he defused.

Zamas wasn't dominated because he comes out gloating after tanking all those punches and even Vegetto's strongest attack. They were even from start to finish.

[ZombieVito]

Another thing I forgot to mention is that after firing his Final Kamehameha, you can clearly see that Vegetto has scratches on him. He was definitely not dominating power wise.

[Koitsukai]

Here's a video of the second part of the fight between Fused Zamasu and Vegito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfLf2XNp5g

Watch this video starting from the minute 1.25. That's when Fused Zamasu powers-up and increases his size exponentially, followed by Vegito who also powers up. Right after that scene, Vegito and Fused Zamasu are seen fighting evenly around the minute 1.50. Then when Gowasu is explaining how Fused Zamasu is breaking apart both mentally and phisically, there's also a close-up of Fused Zamasu's face where it can be seen that he is grunting and having a rough time, but he is holding on against Vegito instead of being pushed back. This is striking evidence that tells me that Fused Zamasu's problem wasn't the lack of strength, but the lack of speed.

And as already said before, if Vegito was so much stronger than Fused Zamasu, why didn't his Final Kamehameha blow him to smithereens? In the manga, Fused Zamasu was much weaker than Vegito, and indeed Vegito was literally tearing Fused Zamasu apart, in one scene he literally obliterated half of his body because his attack was so much stronger. Being invincible doesn't give you the ability to avoid physical damage. Yet Fused Zamasu was left unscathed by Vegito's Final Kamehameha despite the fact that Vegito was supposedly so much stronger?

I always thought that Zamasu regenerated (too fast) after tanking that while he was covered in smoke, which would be weird but possible. I don't think Vegito was much more stronger than Zamasu, not like he was in Z or like Gogeta is everytime he shows up. But he was, Vegeta was stronger than Black and Goku was way stronger than Zamasu.

Another theory would be that FKHH did on Zamasu something like KHHx10 did on Ohzaru Vegeta Baby (he felt it later), making it easier for Trunks to deliver the finishing blow minutes later when he was way out of his league.
IIRC, before the fusion Gowasu said they needed a stronger power to unbalance Zamasu's corrupt form or soul in order to have a chance to win, I believe FKKH did just that, tanking it wasn't free of charge for Zamasu, Trunks not only cut him in half, he actually put up a decent fight, so MZ was clearly weakened after meeting Vegito. If he could tank Vegito Blue's attack, how come he couldn't just sodomize Trunks who didn't even get a senzu bean? Even though he was falling apart, he went from fighting a Blue fusion to being defeated by a depleted SS2 with a broken sword in minutes. That FKHH definitely did some damage.

[ZombieVito]

Here's a video of the second part of the fight between Fused Zamasu and Vegito:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBfLf2XNp5g

Watch this video starting from the minute 1.25. That's when Fused Zamasu powers-up and increases his size exponentially, followed by Vegito who also powers up. Right after that scene, Vegito and Fused Zamasu are seen fighting evenly around the minute 1.50. Then when Gowasu is explaining how Fused Zamasu is breaking apart both mentally and phisically, there's also a close-up of Fused Zamasu's face where it can be seen that he is grunting and having a rough time, but he is holding on against Vegito instead of being pushed back. This is striking evidence that tells me that Fused Zamasu's problem wasn't the lack of strength, but the lack of speed.

And as already said before, if Vegito was so much stronger than Fused Zamasu, why didn't his Final Kamehameha blow him to smithereens? In the manga, Fused Zamasu was much weaker than Vegito, and indeed Vegito was literally tearing Fused Zamasu apart, in one scene he literally obliterated half of his body because his attack was so much stronger. Being invincible doesn't give you the ability to avoid physical damage. Yet Fused Zamasu was left unscathed by Vegito's Final Kamehameha despite the fact that Vegito was supposedly so much stronger?

I always thought that Zamasu regenerated (too fast) after tanking that while he was covered in smoke, which would be weird but possible. I don't think Vegito was much more stronger than Zamasu, not like he was in Z or like Gogeta is everytime he shows up. But he was, Vegeta was stronger than Black and Goku was way stronger than Zamasu.

Another theory would be that FKHH did on Zamasu something like KHHx10 did on Ohzaru Vegeta Baby (he felt it later), making it easier for Trunks to deliver the finishing blow minutes later when he was way out of his league.
IIRC, before the fusion Gowasu said they needed a stronger power to unbalance Zamasu's corrupt form or soul in order to have a chance to win, I believe FKKH did just that, tanking it wasn't free of charge for Zamasu, Trunks not only cut him in half, he actually put up a decent fight, so MZ was clearly weakened after meeting Vegito. If he could tank Vegito Blue's attack, how come he couldn't just sodomize Trunks who didn't even get a senzu bean? Even though he was falling apart, he went from fighting a Blue fusion to being defeated by a depleted SS2 with a broken sword in minutes. That FKHH definitely did some damage.

Vegeta was not stronger than Black. Gowasu confirms that Black was the strongest amoung them in E65.

Trunks never fought Merged Zamasu as a SS2. Judging my Zamasu's comments, Trunks surpassed Vegetto thanks to absorbing the energy into himself.

[PFM18]

So we are ignoring statements from characters now?

I dont see how this is even a counterpoint. If anything it undermines your own argument.

[ZombieVito]

So we are ignoring statements from characters now?

I dont see how this is even a counterpoint. If anything it undermines your own argument.

He literally says he can't keep up with him because of speed...