Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:32 pm

Boo's energy can't be taken by Moro's magic. That's why Moro's fire could hurt Vegeta but not Boo. Moro explained himself that he doesn't only take the planets energy for his magic, but from the people on the planet as well. That's why Vegeta was tired right after his fight with Moro. He was taking Vegeta's energy along with Namek's to fuel his magic attacks. He couldn't do that with Boo so Moro's attack only had Namek's energy.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:06 am

AvatarReiko wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:01 pm
How strong is Good Buu now compared to Buuhan?
Since he didn't train in the manga then he shouldn't be stronger than Pure Boo.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 2:27 am

Amir wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:38 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:00 pm
ruler9871 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:26 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZZ9cWbGF1g
No real rebuttal, good to hear.
Show me where it's stated that Goku was blood-lusted. That's pure headcanon on your part.

Again. Just because they trade blows for a brief fight doesn't mean anything. Later on the episode he can't beat SS2 Trunks and would have died twice to him without his immortality.
Why does it need to be stated with words to be a fact? It was clearly shown to us that he was blood-lusted. Not everything that isn't stated with words is headcanon.

Goku was clearly pissed off and charged at Zamasu seriously only to be easily blocked. Zamasu had feats to put him around SSJB Goku level from episode 57.

About Trunks overpowering him in SSJ2. Yes, it happened, it was weird and made no sense. You could call either scenario bad writing. But any way you slice it, Zamasu was SSJB level and at the same time he was only SSJ2 level. Just inconsistent writing. We can't confirm how strong the story intended Future Zamasu to be.
Yeah, it's pretty terrible writing there. For the cherry on top we have true Raged Goku (finding out about Gotten and Chi Chi) treating Zamasu like shit. Black holds his own a bit, but Zamasu is treated like crap. :lol:
There's also that whole annoying business with Zamasu being able to restrain Goku with one arm when Black shoots them with the kamehameha.
Super just works on rule of cool. SSJ2 Trunks is equal in speed with SSJB Goku when they work together and all that jazz.
The heart may be weak. And sometimes it may even give in. But I've learned... that deep down there's a light that never goes out! -Sora

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:08 am

So is Buu stronger than a Super Saiyan Blue now?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:24 am

Bullza wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:08 am
So is Buu stronger than a Super Saiyan Blue now?
No, he's definitely not gonna be stronger than SSJB, but I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "Buus impervious to his magic" will be the only explanation we get for why he's fighting the way he is. I hate when the story just leaves us filling in the blanks to try and make sense of what's going on. If Buus actually got stronger then it should really be stated, or something prior should at least allude to such, but hey, this is Super. Here's to hoping next chapter gives us something.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:35 am

dragon boss z wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:05 pm
The new chapter proves Buu isn't nearly as weak as some people claim he is compared to other Super characters, at least in the manga version.
It more so proves Toyotaro is inconsistent, along with a litany of other examples.
dragon boss z wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:05 pm
He's definitely above every Z fighter that isn't Goku, Vegeta, 17, and Gohan.
And Piccolo. But who is saying otherwise? Of course he is stronger than the bunch outside of those five characters.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:40 am

Sora Saiyan wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:24 am
If Buus actually got stronger then it should really be stated, or something prior should at least allude to such, but hey, this is Super. Here's to hoping next chapter gives us something.
I'd say it would have to be a given that he was stronger. Even aside from the whole magic thing he was able to hurt Moro by punching him.

A much weaker Moro was able to withstand Super Saiyan God Vegeta's punches and that big Namekian fusion couldn't even get close to him.

Merus was also very shocked at how strong Buu was and he was above the Base Saiyans from the look of it. The Base Saiyans themselves should be above Buu then again that's arguable for the manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:04 am

Bullza wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:40 am
Sora Saiyan wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:24 am
If Buus actually got stronger then it should really be stated, or something prior should at least allude to such, but hey, this is Super. Here's to hoping next chapter gives us something.
I'd say it would have to be a given that he was stronger. Even aside from the whole magic thing he was able to hurt Moro by punching him.

A much weaker Moro was able to withstand Super Saiyan God Vegeta's punches and that big Namekian fusion couldn't even get close to him.

Merus was also very shocked at how strong Buu was and he was above the Base Saiyans from the look of it. The Base Saiyans themselves should be above Buu then again that's arguable for the manga.
It's just hard to take. I mean SSJ2 Vegeta was stronger than SSJ Black, and Black in his base was much stronger than FPSSJ2 Trunks who was around SSJ3 Goku in strength. For Buu to close a gap like that with no mention of training or a special power up seems strange. Maybe all that sleeping Buu did paid off and made him super strong. :lol:

I'm just hoping for something to be mentioned in the next chapter because I'm sick of trying to come up reasons to try to fill in the holes that are being left just because of the rule of cool.

Btw this isn't just me getting on at Toyo, it happens across all of Super.
The heart may be weak. And sometimes it may even give in. But I've learned... that deep down there's a light that never goes out! -Sora

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Amir » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:25 am

People forget Moro handled SSJ God Vegeta without his absorption ability. He should be able to do the same to Buu without any effort whatsoever.

Moro has that ability to turn planet energy into offensive attacks, that's what gave SSJ God Vegeta troubles, why did he not use it against Buu? On top of that, Moro should be much stronger than when he faced Vegeta.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:43 am

Sora Saiyan wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:04 am
For Buu to close a gap like that with no mention of training or a special power up seems strange. Maybe all that sleeping Buu did paid off and made him super strong. :lol:
Oh that's not how I even took it. When I was reading it I was just under the impression that Buu somehow gained access to the Grand Supreme Kai's old powers.

That might not actually be the case at all though. Yeah I see where you're coming from now.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:37 am

Amir wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:25 am
People forget Moro handled SSJ God Vegeta without his absorption ability. He should be able to do the same to Buu without any effort whatsoever.

Moro has that ability to turn planet energy into offensive attacks, that's what gave SSJ God Vegeta troubles, why did he not use it against Buu? On top of that, Moro should be much stronger than when he faced Vegeta.
Yeah, but people just try to justify whatever Toyotaro does.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:52 am

I think the chapter is clear about Boo being immune to Moro’s techniques, it’s not implying Boo is stronger than SSGod Vegeta. It’s just that only SSBlue could make up for that technique that manipulates lava. Boo doesn’t need to worry about that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Amir » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:07 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:52 am
I think the chapter is clear about Boo being immune to Moro’s techniques, it’s not implying Boo is stronger than SSGod Vegeta. It’s just that only SSBlue could make up for that technique that manipulates lava. Boo doesn’t need to worry about that.
Not really, only thing that is clear is Buu being immune to Moro's absorption, the rest is headcanon to fill what's not been stated, unfortunately.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sora Saiyan » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:02 am

Bullza wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:43 am
Oh that's not how I even took it. When I was reading it I was just under the impression that Buu somehow gained access to the Grand Supreme Kai's old powers.

That might not actually be the case at all though. Yeah I see where you're coming from now.
What you thought might actually be true, but if we aren't shown anything that implies it I'm afraid it won't be the case. I'm just really hoping the next chapter shows us something to fill in the holes. Buu did actually surprise Moro a couple times looking back on the chapter. I'll reserve the rest of my judgement until the next chapter.
Amir wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:07 am
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:52 am
I think the chapter is clear about Boo being immune to Moro’s techniques, it’s not implying Boo is stronger than SSGod Vegeta. It’s just that only SSBlue could make up for that technique that manipulates lava. Boo doesn’t need to worry about that.
Not really, only thing that is clear is Buu being immune to Moro's absorption, the rest is headcanon to fill what's not been stated, unfortunately.
Goku did actually state that Buu isn't fazed at all by Moros flame attack when Buu dove right through it. I have no idea if that means that Buu is immune to all of those kinds of attacks, but it didn't force him to regenerate in the slightest, so he may have some weird resistance to that kind of attack. Honestly Buu shouldn't be touching Moro with the strength gap, but Moro was caught by surprise. Next chapters gonna be the decider for me.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:29 am

Amir wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:07 am
only thing that is clear is Buu being immune to Moro's absorption, the rest is headcanon to fill what's not been stated, unfortunately.
Boo was immune to the lava as well. Goku even stated it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:45 am

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:32 pm
Boo's energy can't be taken by Moro's magic. That's why Moro's fire could hurt Vegeta but not Boo. Moro explained himself that he doesn't only take the planets energy for his magic, but from the people on the planet as well. That's why Vegeta was tired right after his fight with Moro. He was taking Vegeta's energy along with Namek's to fuel his magic attacks. He couldn't do that with Boo so Moro's attack only had Namek's energy.
This. People need to pay attention to the story. Chapter 45 literally explains why Moro's magic was so effective against Vegeta, and Goku was the first to notice that Moro had been absorbing their energy the whole time.

We should stop conflating Moro's physical strength with his magic. The former isn't that special; the latter is what allows him to combat even the highest-level threats and it's simply not effective against Boo, who's obviously immune to his gradual energy-sapping.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by CortoMaltese » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:22 pm

I don't understand the complain about Buu's power level.
The chapter explain it.
Moro doesn't confront Fat Buu, he confront Dai Kaioshin !
With his memory restored, Buu can now use all his dormant power !
He has a new aura, probably related to Dai Kaioshin power.
We knew Dai Kaioshin alone is far stronger than a SSGOD.
Dai Kaioshin sacrificed his god power to stop Moro with a magic skill.
Now that the magic is over, Dai Kaioshin has probably regain all his power.


Sadly for Buu's fans, i'm pretty sure Dai Kaioshin will lost again his godly power to help beating Moro.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:38 pm

Bullza wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:39 pm

1. There is no inconsistency. Goku was powerful enough to stand up and blast apart the black hole. Android 17 as weak enough to be unable to stand up. They are not on the same level even though they traded blows.

Android 17 did not match Toppo as he was being pushed back and was moments away from being eliminated and he even admitted that he could beat Toppo who was Super Saiyan Blue level.

2. The anime does not have Completed Super Saiyan Blue. They just have Super Saiyan Blue and in both versions Gohan is made out to be weaker than Goku during the Tournament. It's like saying Saonel and Golden Frieza are on the same level.

3. You seem confused by this. Android 17 putting on an act has no bearing on his actual power. That's like saying because Great Saiyaman is putting on an act that he's weaker than Gohan. Goku wasn't any weaker when he was kidding around pretending to be a dick when he fought Uub, he was the same strength putting on an act.

Nowhere did they say that Android 17 was holding back against Ribrianne, just that he was pretending to be a bad guy.

4. Golden Frieza actually was Super Saiyan Blue level because he overpowered Goku. Zamasu isn't Super Saiyan Blue level because he was overpowered by Super Saiyan Trunks. He's Super Saiyan 1 or 2 level as was also shown in the manga.

5. It was when Trunks first fought Zamasu. Overpowered him enough to stab him through then proceeded to stop his attack, dodge his attacks, pummel him and then Final Flash him. Trunks overperformed Zamasu. It's why in the manga they say he's weaker than him.

6. He also never said anything about his power level.

7. No you're just lying there now. I went and checked, I watched every fight involving Zamasu and counted each individual hit. More than you're assuming what happens, I genuinely checked it for real.

The majority of the hits that Zamasu gets in are in unison with Goku Black. Either firing blasts that combine together to hit their enemies or both of them driving a kick into their enemy at the same time.

No, in terms of how many times Zamasu, just by himself, is able to hit someone throughout the entire arc...is 4. No more and no less.
1. It is an inconsistency because it doesn't match up with what all the characters do (and say) before & after that scene. Logic 101. The only reason you use that scene (while ignore everything else with A17) is your own bias.

He was evenly matched in the beam struggle with Toppo, watch the scene again. They were evenly matched until Golden Freeza started using Death Beams against Toppo, causing 17 to win the clash.

And since your one of those people who think anime = manga, then A17 would automatically be equal to Full Power Goku since that is what was said at the end of the ToP manga. You would be wrong either way.

"he even admitted that he could beat Toppo who was Super Saiyan Blue level"

So you just debunked yourself with this claim.

2. Again, you are using the same fallacy over & over. For the a millionth time, being weaker than ToP SSB Goku =/= not being SSB level. Its like claiming Rose Black himself isn't SSB level just because he's weaker than ToP SSB Goku/Vegeta. Its a stupid argument.

3. That is some of the worst logic I've ever read (your Great Saiyanman argument makes 0 sense). If a character in DB is clearly toying around with another, then they guy is clearly holding back (Logic 101). There is not a single case in the History of DB when a character is both toying with their opponent & going all out at the same time. Nor is there a single line nor feat that says that A17 was going all out against Ribrianne. That's just your own bias.

Your Goku vs Uub examples fails badly, because it ignores the simple fact that Goku did hold back by not using any of his transformations on Uub.

4. & Future Zamasu overpowered SSB Goku in their 1st fight. This was clearly shown for everyone to see (he even had Goku running away from him). So you just being in denial.

5. For the millionth time, anime =/= manga in terms of power levels, and F.Zamasu tanked his attacks on purpose (he even said so to). So no, Trunks didn't beat up down in their 1st fight.

6. It was clearly about his power, because Present Zamasu can't block/parry a serious SSB Goku punch at all. Its common sense.

7. You are the one thats lying here. In F.Zamasu's 1st fight alone, he landed more hits on SSB Goku than you claiming he did in the whole arc.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by dragon boss z » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:39 pm

PFM18 wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:35 am
It more so proves Toyotaro is inconsistent, along with a litany of other examples.
Unless this came from Toriyama.
And Piccolo. But who is saying otherwise? Of course he is stronger than the bunch outside of those five characters.
No, not Piccolo.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:52 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:12 am

You are not reading my statements properly cause I didn't suggest those things you claimed. It didn't matter what level of power Blue Goku was at. Zamas got bodied by SSJ2 Trunks at the start, struggling to kill a fatigue SSJ2 Trunks later, Blue Goku blew off his head and he needed to regenerate from that one attack; Blue Goku smashed Zamas into the ground and he needed to regenerate from that. The fact that he needed to regenerate from those simple attacks proves he isn't Blue level.
1. F.Zamasu didn't get bodied by SSJ2 Trunks in their 1st fight, the exact opposite happened (F.Zamasu also bodied SSB Goku in their 1st fight too, a fact you keep denying).

2. He didn't "struggle" to kill a fatigue SSJ2 Trunks, he simply chased him around while Trunks lured him into a suicide trap.

3. "Blue Goku blew off his head and he needed to regenerate from that one attack"

SSb Goku at that point could one shot his RoF self, so by your logic nobody from RoF was SSB level smh.

"Blue Goku smashed Zamas into the ground and he needed to regenerate from that"

A) That Goku was way stronger than he was at the start of the Black arc (same with Vegeta). You keep repeating the same fallacy over and over again.

B) F.Zamasu didn't lose any body parts nor regenerate at all in the that scene. You are making stuff up.

Miracles wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:02 pm
Did you forget that base Black was already SSJ2 level? SSJ2 Vegeta was SSJ3 level from BOG...Black SSJ is stronger than that. It fits perfectly.
That's still complete nonsense (in fact, it actually makes it worse). That still doesn't justify at all how SSB Vegeta could go from struggling with Black's SSJ1 to dominating his Rose form with that little training or zenkai. That's a far bigger & nonsensical asspull than anything in the anime version.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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