Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Thani
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Fri May 17, 2019 3:34 pm

I don't actually mind that, honestly. It stands to reason that a God of Destruction should be above everything in their universe to a huge degree, otherwise things would get messy.

Which is what annoys me with Broly, honestly. He became completely berserk, a total lunatic with zero control over himself, so much so that he broke dimensional barriers when fighting Gogeta... But somehow Earth was still intact everytime he blasted something at his Full Power mode. A being like that, potentially stronger than Beerus, out of control like that... they should have kept to that dimension, only returning when Broly was too hurt to continue fighting, imo. Ki control is one thing, sure, but he wasn't at a state of mind where you could handwave that.

At least with Jiren there was the excuse of fighting on top of the strongest material of the multiverse in a dimension outside of it.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri May 17, 2019 4:31 pm

Nokra wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:44 pm
All that means is goku rivals/surpasses beerus in power now which is obvious when you factor in MUI in which case he definitely surpasses and most likely one shots.
I’m obviously excluding Ultra Instinct from that analisis, I was talking about Goku’s battle power before that point. In the anime, it’s implied that Beerus is still stronger than Goku despite he being able to use SSBlue and kaioken at the same time. In the manga, Beerus is at least 3 steps ahead of SSGod.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Fri May 17, 2019 5:40 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 4:31 pm
Nokra wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 1:44 pm
All that means is goku rivals/surpasses beerus in power now which is obvious when you factor in MUI in which case he definitely surpasses and most likely one shots.
I’m obviously excluding Ultra Instinct from that analisis, I was talking about Goku’s battle power before that point. In the anime, it’s implied that Beerus is still stronger than Goku despite he being able to use SSBlue and kaioken at the same time. In the manga, Beerus is at least 3 steps ahead of SSGod.
Goku can still match GoDs with blue just like how freeza could beat sides with gold which means he isn't too far behind beerus.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri May 17, 2019 6:04 pm

Nokra wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:40 pm
Goku can still match GoDs with blue just like how freeza could beat sides with gold which means he isn't too far behind beerus.
Freeza barely managed to catch a tiny portion of Sidra’s energy of destruction. He can’t beat Sidra or any God of Destruction. Goku can’t either, not without Ultra Instinct. Beerus sneezed away the energy that Freeza took as if it was nothing.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:25 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:04 pm
Nokra wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:40 pm
Goku can still match GoDs with blue just like how freeza could beat sides with gold which means he isn't too far behind beerus.
Freeza barely managed to catch a tiny portion of Sidra’s energy of destruction. He can’t beat Sidra or any God of Destruction. Goku can’t either, not without Ultra Instinct. Beerus sneezed away the energy that Freeza took as if it was nothing.
1. The Gods of Destruction are not equals in power.

2. Golden Freeza only pretend to be hurt by Sidra's Hakai and immediately gained control of it afterwards. Hell, even Base Goku was able to withstand it to some degree. That's direct proof that Sidra is likely the weakest Hakaishin and could possibly be beaten by high SSB level characters.
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri May 17, 2019 8:48 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:25 pm
1. The Gods of Destruction are not equals in power.

2. Golden Freeza only pretend to be hurt by Sidra's Hakai and immediately gained control of it afterwards. Hell, even Base Goku was able to withstand it to some degree. That's direct proof that Sidra is likely the weakest Hakaishin and could possibly be beaten by high SSB level characters.
I’m not saying they are.. Anyway, Freeza almost couldn’t control that energy and it was just a small portion of Sidra’s energy. If it was Sidra himself he wouldn’t be able to.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Fri May 17, 2019 8:49 pm

ruler9871 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:25 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:04 pm
Nokra wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 5:40 pm
Goku can still match GoDs with blue just like how freeza could beat sides with gold which means he isn't too far behind beerus.
Freeza barely managed to catch a tiny portion of Sidra’s energy of destruction. He can’t beat Sidra or any God of Destruction. Goku can’t either, not without Ultra Instinct. Beerus sneezed away the energy that Freeza took as if it was nothing.
1. The Gods of Destruction are not equals in power.

2. Golden Freeza only pretend to be hurt by Sidra's Hakai and immediately gained control of it afterwards. Hell, even Base Goku was able to withstand it to some degree. That's direct proof that Sidra is likely the weakest Hakaishin and could possibly be beaten by high SSB level characters.
Exactly my point:clap:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Fri May 17, 2019 9:04 pm

Freeza pretended to be overwhelmed, but he did show legitinate strain and effort when taking control of the sphere of destruction. He was even panting afterwards.

And again, that was just a portion of his power. The GoDs not being equal in raw power doesn't mean they are not in the same range (they are), which is far beyond our main characters at present.

To make it even worse, the same Golden Freeza couldn't handle Toppo doing the same stunt with more power, and he was newly ascended at that point, with little mastery over the energy of destruction. Sidra would demolish Freeza if they actually fought.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat May 18, 2019 3:37 am

About the scaling Toriyama provided. I personally view it as a ×10 for each level. That said a level 7 character is 10 times stronger than a level 6 etc. This makes the most sense for me, and it is loyal to the entire DBS.

Pure training alone shouldn't be a great factor about this scale, but transformations should.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat May 18, 2019 8:11 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:37 am
About the scaling Toriyama provided. I personally view it as a ×10 for each level.
That would mean Beerus is 10,000 times stronger than SSGod and that Whis is 100,000 times stronger than Beerus. Don’t you think that’s a little bloated? Not only SSGod would seem an ant in comparison to Beerus, but Beerus himself would seem an ant in comparison to Whis.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat May 18, 2019 8:48 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 8:11 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 3:37 am
About the scaling Toriyama provided. I personally view it as a ×10 for each level.
That would mean Beerus is 10,000 times stronger than SSGod and that Whis is 100,000 times stronger than Beerus. Don’t you think that’s a little bloated? Not only SSGod would seem an ant in comparison to Beerus, but Beerus himself would seem an ant in comparison to Whis.
Well, Beerus being that much stronger than SSG actually makes sense numerically given how it takes SSB Fusion to rival and possibly overtake the power of a God of Destruction, knowing that said Fusion has an unfused SSB-level base form.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Sat May 18, 2019 8:52 am

A little bloated, but kinda makes sense. SSG Goku IS an ant next to Beerus, according to Super, anyway.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Sat May 18, 2019 11:30 am

Okay, but even if we ignore the comparison between SSGod and Beerus, which is debatable still, how explain that much difference between Beerus and Whis?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Shintoki » Sat May 18, 2019 1:31 pm

comparing Ritual SSG with the regular SSG is sorta unfair?

goku at the time was amped by 5 other power, some who are his equal, some who are around his level, and some who are far below his level. but all those power combined as one with his own. even beerus comments that his ''input'' was the power of SSG. and we don't know whether that power ran off exactly afterwards.

we just have to go off that SSGSS despite being a better and stronger form than SSG, still holds no candle at beerus.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Noah » Sat May 18, 2019 11:57 pm

I don't remember any direct comparision of how GoDs stands with which others regarding their battle power in the anime...

Assuming we could make a list of the strongest to the weakest, how it would be?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon May 20, 2019 4:36 am

The only canon fact we have in power comparison among the gods is that Beerus and Quitela were fighting for the throne of strongest. Everyone else is lower than them.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by wolflonnie » Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am

So uhm, how strong is current Buu in your opinion?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue May 21, 2019 9:44 am

wolflonnie wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am
So uhm, how strong is current Buu in your opinion?
Considering Moro absorbed all Goku and Vegeta’s energy along with Namek’s own energy and Boo was still able to stomp him, I would say it’s possible that he might be stronger than Goku and Vegeta now.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Tue May 21, 2019 11:51 am

wolflonnie wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am
So uhm, how strong is current Buu in your opinion?
As strong as the plot and toyotaro demand.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ssj3kakarot » Tue May 21, 2019 1:45 pm

wolflonnie wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 7:40 am
So uhm, how strong is current Buu in your opinion?
Id agree with some other post about Buu having plot hax, however there are some really big points to consider that make Buu formidable even after the introduction of the Gods.

1)Buu is a creature that has been around for almost as long as the universe, according to AT himself. I can't remember the exact phrase, but AT talked about Buu in an interview once. We actually don't know where Buu comes from. Bibidi didnt make Buu, he just knew the incantation to release him and capture him.

2)Buu is practically the greatest fighter in all Dragon ball. I dont think there is anyone more versatile or durable then he is ( mainly due to his healing). Also, there isn't anyone shown to be able to learn abilities like he does. Not even my boi Goku.

3)Buu has shown feats of multi-dimension level that put the universe at risk back in Dbz. That's nuts considering everything we know now. Angry buu isn't someone you should sleep on.

4)Buu has the Daikaioshin inside him. Which just gives him that much more hax power if they want.

Even with everything it's hard for me to say that Buu has surpassed Goku and Vegeta in terms of power output. It seems its more due to the magic vs magic fight that is giving him the main advantage.
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