Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Koitsukai
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:28 pm

I would understand if someone claimed SS3 Vegito could give SSGod a run for his money, because there is nobody between those two and the Vegito shown in Z was not even close to his full power, creating a really big, unused gap between strongest from Z and "lowest" from Super, but after all the main character using words the creator chose, claimed fusion wouldn't be enough, achieves SSGod and goes crazy at the power he had, he is disturbed that such a power exists and can't achieved it on his own. Needless to say he never felt that way about fusion, in any medium (manga, anime, movies, maybe even games?) not before or after, it speaks more of the power itself than Goku's development in that regard, which was the purpose of the movie.

If Z Vegito without god ki and without the massive fights and experience Super gave Goku and Vegeta, if such a simple Vegito could outmatch two SSBlue, then by the time Broly showed up, Gogeta/Vegito with Super behind him, god ki and his fusees being pretty much hakaishin level, his base+kaioken should be enough to deal with FP SS Broly.
If Z arc SSVegito was top tier RoF arc, then Blue Vegito from FT arc would've been overkill, SS2 Vegito would be on par with Corrupted Zamasu, SS3 Vegito would effortlessly do to Zamasu what Jiren is doing on Heroes.

Sure, SS Vegito from Super (any arc) could take both SSBlue at the same time and win, but there is a reason behind it, there were achievements along the way, training sessions, humilliating defeats, giant walls climbed and limits broken.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:02 pm

As stated in the movie, Vegetto wouldn't have been enough against Beerus. Merely powering up through fusion wasn't enough. The point of BoG was to introduce a new world above anything we have seen. With the incoming of god ki, an unmatched level of power for our protagonists.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:45 pm

which was promptly discarded as Freezer go to that level in 3 months

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:51 pm

Freeza was an anomaly. He never trained in his life. The guy was more gifted than Goku and Vegeta. It's no surprise he'd reach god level with that type of excuse.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:11 pm

If you think about it, the stronger they get separately, the stronger the result is. After all, guidebooks describe fusion as multiplying one’s battle power with another. So, by the time he fought Beerus, Goku’s Super Saiyan’s battle power multiplied by itself likely would result in something less than a SSGod. But because he makes considerable gains after that point, when he fights Broli, even his normal strength multiplied by itself surpass SSGod.

For example:
  • Super Saiyan when Goku fights Beerus - 2
  • Super Vegetto - 4
  • Super Saiyan God - 6
  • Normal form when Goku fights Broli - 3
  • Gogeta - 9

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ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm

Since we are speaking about Gogeta, I'll ask again.

Do people still think his base surpasses Blue?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:41 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Since we are speaking about Gogeta, I'll ask again.

Do people still think his base surpasses Blue?
I think he matches Blue. Super Gogeta is a little better than Super Saiyan Broli, so his normal form would be about equal to enraged normal Broli, who was almost as strong as Blue.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:48 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Since we are speaking about Gogeta, I'll ask again.

Do people still think his base surpasses Blue?
It's extremely hard to tell. What Gogeta was doing in base, Blue Goku was doing too.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."~Psalm 14:1

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PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:54 pm

Overall, I think that Gogeta is meant to match Broly in all forms in terms of raw power until they both into their highest form; base Gogeta is equal to Ikari Broly, and SS Gogeta is equal to Ikari SS Broly. Once they do, SSB Gogeta has SS Full-Power Broly entirely outmatched.

Makes sense, really. Broly's base form became somewhat greater than Super Saiyan and was then put on an equal footing with SSB when he went Ikari the first time, so going Ikari on top of Ikari SS would put him somewhat below SSB in the fight against Gogeta if the boost remained consistent.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:31 pm

Wouldnt Broly be considerably weaker than Blue for Freeza to try and make him go Super Saiyan?

Also do we ever got confirmation that Ikari and Super Saiyan staked?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:01 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:31 pm
Wouldnt Broly be considerably weaker than Blue for Freeza to try and make him go Super Saiyan?

Also do we ever got confirmation that Ikari and Super Saiyan staked?
I don't think he was really any weaker. SSB Goku was just doing a lot better, enough so that Ikari Broly probably was gonna lose at the rate the fight was going.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:36 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:31 pm
Also do we ever got confirmation that Ikari and Super Saiyan staked?
When Broli went Super Saiyan he was already powered-up by anger, so I would say pretty much. Later, the movie just went overboard and used that legendary form.

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Kenneth La Torre
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:33 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Since we are speaking about Gogeta, I'll ask again.

Do people still think his base surpasses Blue?
Yeah it's kinda a thing at this point for base fusions to be above ssjb goku and vegeta (just fusions made from goku and vegeta). First case was in the Manga when vegito busted up M.zamasu with a blast in just base form. Tho that doesn't mean they are far more powerful, just more powerful by an unknown amount.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:23 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:33 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Since we are speaking about Gogeta, I'll ask again.

Do people still think his base surpasses Blue?
Yeah it's kinda a thing at this point for base fusions to be above ssjb goku and vegeta (just fusions made from goku and vegeta). First case was in the Manga when vegito busted up M.zamasu with a blast in just base form. Tho that doesn't mean they are far more powerful, just more powerful by an unknown amount.
People keep bringing up that example but it doesn't mean that.

Not only did Zamasu got caught of guard but he says to Vegetto's face that he's trash.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:25 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:23 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:33 pm
ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:15 pm
Since we are speaking about Gogeta, I'll ask again.

Do people still think his base surpasses Blue?
Yeah it's kinda a thing at this point for base fusions to be above ssjb goku and vegeta (just fusions made from goku and vegeta). First case was in the Manga when vegito busted up M.zamasu with a blast in just base form. Tho that doesn't mean they are far more powerful, just more powerful by an unknown amount.
People keep bringing up that example but it doesn't mean that.

Not only did Zamasu got caught of guard but he says to Vegetto's face that he's trash.
No he didn’t he never said that.
all he said he guess one hour would be enough to defeat him

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 am

Image

He said both.

To be fair tho, it could very well be his arrogance speaking louder. Manga Black/Zamasu is SUPREMELY arrogant compared to his anime counterpart, and so is his fusion.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:33 am

Given the way the conversation went, it seems Zamas and Vegetto would be about equal if Vegetto didn’t eat the senzu bean.

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Koitsukai
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:43 pm

I never understood why the anime had Goku and Vegeta eat the senzu before fusing (wasting one senzu) and the manga had the senzu be eaten after the fusing

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:01 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:43 pm
I never understood why the anime had Goku and Vegeta eat the senzu before fusing (wasting one senzu) and the manga had the senzu be eaten after the fusing
IIRC in the anime they ate half senzu each.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:27 pm

Thani wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 am
Image

He said both.

To be fair tho, it could very well be his arrogance speaking louder. Manga Black/Zamasu is SUPREMELY arrogant compared to his anime counterpart, and so is his fusion.
Nah that mangastream translation
Viz had him said he could take him in a hour https://m.imgur.com/gallery/9GPO6Hf

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