Miracles wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:01 am
Koitsukai wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:43 am
Miracles wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:54 pm
Goku Black was never stated to be stronger than Hit either. Hit was never stated to be stronger than golden Freeza even tho both villians fought STRONGER versions of Goku. Let's not forget, Toriyama himself says he always has the next villain greater. Please let's not forget, how you guys keep saying Beerus being surpassed contradicts Toriyama's story narrative of Beerus being Goku's goal.
Yep, like I thought, pure headcanon based on out of universe statements
from almost a decade ago.
Still can't prove Broly is stronger than Jiren, who was never directly stated to surpass Beerus, just like Beerus was also never stated to be stronger than Jiren, who was stronger than his own hakaishin and then grew even stronger. And Beerus just rules his own universe, if someone surpasses another hakaishin then chances are he is in Beerus's realm and if he gets a massive power boost, then he probably surpasses him. Is like having a hakaishin participate and then break his limits and beat up the guy everyone stood up to see... why would anyone need a direct statement to tell that this guy probably left the rest in the dust?
And Hit's trump card isn't his strenght, his techniques are what separates him from the rest, nothing points that Black stomps Hit and Hit stomps Freeza like Buu with Cell. Actually they did equally bad against Dyspo, and Golden Freeza one shot the blue out of post FT Goku. So yes, that Toriyama statement clearly is outdated and in DBS there are many "plotholes" for it, like Future Zamasu being not that strong but immortal, Golden Freeza having already in RoF the incredible power he learnt to control in the ToP, or Moro also not being that strong but having magical powers to compensate. It is not so linear anymore thus a basic statement like "the next one is just stronger than the previous one" has no place. Maybe in Z, but Super has given us different types of villains that are outside the box and fail to fall so easily into this "one is stronger just because it came later" thing.
Not even the DBS movies follow that statement: 2013 BoG top dog Beerus.. 2015 RoF a much weaker Golden Freeza... 2019 Broly who may or may not be stronger than Beerus. So in movies it might actually be the other way around.
Wrong, Beerus is the endgame as BoG was a setup for he and Goku to have a fight in the future. That is the plot, a stated fact that can not be refuted. So Beerus doesn't factor in the formula since he is waiting for Goku later. Freeza was next, who barely was stronger than a Blue Goku. Hit then fought a stronger Goku who could use Blue KKX10. Which Hit needed to power up in order to compete against this stronger Goku. Black who Zenkai's all day fought a stronger Goku who could overpower a fusion in Zamas in Blue alone, Then here comes Jiren, who is stronger than Black; stronger than Belmond, then, here comes Broly, who is stronger than Jiren, who was compared to Goku's future plot battle goalpost in Beerus. Finally, Moro; who due to his magic, MAKES him strongest as he will literally suck up any previous opponent's powers and use it as his own to boost his own battle power. So you are factually wrong again about DB's story.
Now here's the icing on the cake, these facts lead us to the ULTIMATE truth. Back to The highest authority on DB's story, the author himself, Akira Toriyama is ALWAYS an in-universe canon statement. Telling the audience HOW his story is structured. He said the next enemy is always the strongest. You trying to explain this continual plot fact away with headcanon is a heinous transgression.
Blue Goku could overpower MZ because of one KK kick? what??? that kamehameha with Zamasu just floating around?
You are still headcanoning all over the place which I don't have a problem with, but then you can't go around calling out on other people's headcanon. Specially when you speak about an ultimate truth found nowhere, based on a 2013 interview, you keep taking to heart some outdated interview that was not backed up by the story at all, Beerus was followed by a weaker character, Golden Freeza(who stomped Blue, was not just barely stronger, that same power, controlled, remained relevant by the ToP and actually one-shot the Blue out of Goku before the ToP) who was followed by Hit who's punches were not that heavy according to Blue Vegeta. DBS proved defeating enemies without necessarily being stronger is possible, like Future Zamasu against Trunks, initial Moro against God Vegeta, Dyspo against Hit and Golden Freeza (both did equally bad against Dyspo, so there is no clear strongest of the two) You are literally overlooking the facts of the show. GF, Hit(with his time skip) and Black Rose are pretty much in the same ballpark, no one stomps the other like Jiren or MZ would.
The enemy tiers were hakaishin level (Beerus)... blue level, blue level, blue level(Freeza, Hit, Black)... fusion level(Zamasu)... above hakaishin level (Jiren)... hakaishin level (Broly). It doesn't go with your growing chart.
And you still haven't explained how that suppossed ULTIMATE TRUTH works for the movies... Broly beats Freeza and Freeza beats Beerus, right? unless the continual plot fact isn't set in stone, could that be actually it?
The benchmark is just fandom talk, it was never stated in-universe(Toriyama's in-universe statement would be speaking through his characters, not giving interviews), and if it was said by Toriyama, that was years ago, from the time he said Beerus was at 70% against God Goku. Like you should know, all that was retconned in 2015, along with the 15-10-6 ranking.
The narrative implied Jiren > Beerus. Statements said, PERHAPS Broly > Beerus. But you say Broly > Jiren and I'm the one with the headcanon???
According to your logic, you don't even need to watch the show to know who beats who. I won't discuss anymore other people's take on Toriyama's interviews! have fun with them.