Hugo Boss wrote: ↑
Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:56 am
Helios518 wrote: ↑
Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:32 pm
Again, this is a matter of evidence from the series. If I’m going by your logic, then I could spout some unbacked non-sense like Goku is an infinite-dimensional multiverse buster, then I’ll say *you* have to prove me wrong. See that doesn’t make sense because the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. In this case, you’re making the claim that Omega could destroy the universe with a few punches, and it’s on you to provide evidence from the series that is true.
Those similarities aren’t 1-to-1 either. We know that SSG jumps Goku from Solar System level to Universe level, which is an astronomical jump. SS4 jumps Goku from Solar System level to some where under a guy who tries to destroy a Universe but can’t accomplish that in a reasonable time.
I’m not making absolutes, I’m criticizing folks that can’t see how ridiculous these demands for evidence are in these discussions. I’m just saying that if SSGod can do universal threatening stuff, why it would be out if the realm of SS4 to do that. There is precedence for stronger forms to have “lackluster” feats in comparison to what SSGod did, which is totally optional for the writer. And this is purely my opinion. I think it is much more reasonable to compare characters with characters than with feats. As one can compare Broli’s savage form with SS4, since both use the power of Great Ape.
It isn't out of the realm of possibility. But as I have repeatedly stated some times, GT lacks feats. Even if we use feats and statements made in GT, they are absolutely nothing to Super. Not saying that we exclude the probability of Omega or SSJ4s reaching such levels of power, but even if we nerf SSJG's power in comparison to it's feats (which aren't an ordinary display of power but something greater), then the same applies to SSJ4 and it's feats.
As of now, SSJG seems to have raised the bar substantially higher than SSJ4. This is what we get from comparing the 2,which is false as both are entirely different, but for the sake of power scaling we must.
Now if I use MY HEADCANNON
then GT Goku would only be equivalent to SSJ Buu saga Goku. His SSJ3, 8 times stronger than his max against Kid Buu. Apply this logic, with Baby being 8 times stronger and using the ×4,000 multiplier for SSJ4 (after research I changed my multiplier to this) and even if we use Ultra Full Power SSJ4, he gets twice as strong for an 8,000 times increase in Base.
Say that BoG Goku is just twice as strong as Buu saga Goku. This means he is 25 times weaker than GT Base Goku. With my SSJG multiplier of 12,500 he would be 3 times stronger than a SSJ4, but Baby saga Goku would be 25 times stronger in base. Subsequently, despite his Base being multiplied by 4,000 times, he would be exactly 8 times stronger than Super Saiyan God BoG Goku. The same God that nearly destroyed the universe. So yeah, as I said it can happen, I am not disregarding the fact.
However, if we take into account same Base form levels, then God is a superior form. I hardly think that there were any Zenkais in GT. Perhaps none. Nothing indicated growth in power. And it was Goku that we used as a measuring stick. Again MY HEADCANNON
, but let's give the benefit of the doubt to the series and say that Shadow Dragons Base Goku was twice as strong as Baby Base Goku, who was SSJ Buu saga Goku level. Or, now, SSJ2 Buu saga Goku level. Or 50 times stronger than a Base BoG Goku (as Base BoG is 2× end of Buu saga Base Goku)
So, Syn Shenron being equal to SSJ4 Goku of that time, would be roughly 4,000 times stronger than SD Goku. God Goku is only 12,500 times stronger than his Base, or 25,000 times than his Buu saga Base. But SD Base Goku is 400,000 times stronger than Buu saga Base Goku, or 200,000 times stronger than BoG Base Goku. This SSJ4 is 16 times stronger than God BoG Goku. And UFP SSJ4 is twice as strong. And Omega Shenron is 10 times stronger than SSJ4. So he would be around 160 times stronger than God Goku from BoG.
A very big difference indeed. But since I have my head cannon mixed, let's keep going. By Resurrection F, Goku and Vegeta grew in Base by 20 times. Why? Simple. Trained Freeza at his Final Form probably closed the gap in power of those years and even created a "Namek difference" in power. His 50% Final Form being 20 times stronger than the hypothetical non-trained Bases of Goku and Vegeta. But the 2 trained with Whis and not only learned how to maintain Ki control and their energy from leaking, but they also experienced God powers which have them a boost in strength. And Base Goku actaully had the upper hand against Freeza. So, he should be at a level of 20+ times stronger than his Base in BoG, which would probably remain the same by Resurrection F.
A Resurrection F God Goku would be 20 times stronger than BoG God Goku. Closing the gap with Omega Shenron to only the Dragon being 8 times stronger. Base Resurrection F Goku is only 2.5 times weaker than SD Base Goku. So, SD SSJ4 Goku is in the realm of 10,000× Base RF Goku. Very near to his 12,500 SSJG multiplier. With UFP always being a double. So, here is where we get a stalemate with Super Goku and GT Goku in the two respective forms. Blue Goku, with a 5×God for me, is a good match for SD SSJ4 Goku and he would even push him to UFP. A close battle, but in the favor of Super Goku. Pretty much like what Heroes established I AM NOT SAYING THAT XENO GOKU IS GT GOKU
Anyway, passing the Tournament of the Destroyers and perhaps the Copy Vegeta arc, I only give Goku and Vegeta a ×2 boost in Base, with the rest 5 times boost of their Base happening in the FT arc (considering that Goku went from using Blue KK×10 on Hit, standard Blue. I am lowballing as it was also a stronger Hit, but for the sake of simplicity I put him at the same level as before).
Now, Goku in Base is as powerful as GT Shadow Dragons saga Base Goku. Subsequently, God Goku is 3 times stronger than a SSJ4 Goku of the same power, due to the multipliers. Omega is roughly 2.5 times stronger than this God Goku. Blue Goku takes him with ease. Half-way through the Black arc, Goku in God is pretty much stronger than Omega. This is when, Omega is around 70% of God's power. Not very relevant to the fights.
Anyway, my point remains the same. As forms, God is stronger than 4. Omega is a bit tricky to calculate and I was being generous when I said that SD Base Goku is 100 times stronger than Buu Saga Base Goku. He might have even stayed in the same level for the entire GT, only growing stronger while in SSJ4 by unlocking his potential and when dropping in Base, losing that power.
If I use this data, then Omega is surpassed by the beginning of the FT arc by God Goku. SD Base Goku is by extension, equal to Super Goku in Base as of Resurrection F.
This is how I place GT's final arc in Super. As stated initially, 4 has great capabilities. Could defeat BoG God. But, as a form, God is superior. GT was being outclassed by the early-mid Super. Point is, that the feats of Super suggest amazing growth in power. I personally don't use the universal destroying feat, because as I said feats aren't normal displays of power. But I think I made evident what I consider of the entire situation.
Super became that impressive boost phase. GT was kinda more grounded.