Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:41 am

p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:29 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:45 am
For me, Uub truly peaked once he finished with his OWN training after he left the lookout. Goku showed him the basics and unlocked his power from nothing to SSJ Buu saga level imo.

But only once Uub went by himself to train (he said it, "I still have a long way" or something) did he reach that Kid Buu level which he used against the Tuffleized Saiyans and Baby. Which is also why his fusion with Buu would result in a Majuub of initial power near Super Buu's level and then in a level of enraged Buuhan, peaking at that point and being a close match for SSJ Baby Vegeta (stronger than SSJ3 Goku), thus forcing the Mutant to use some of his full power to defeat him instantaneously
Again, headcanons. Facts puts that in a different way. Not only because you don't like them means that it isn't the case .
Really, if I can give an advice :
If you want to be a good power scaler, let go any opinion and base your mind on facts.
Again, I'm always here to help and I know that is hard to let go a mindset , specially if you have it from a long time.
But you know what? It is only matter of who helps you. If I did it, you can too.
Personally, if I were alone I wouldn't be as good as a scaler as I am, I owe all to million friends that helped me giving me the right way to see things.
From what I see you're even younger than me, so change your mind shouldn't be that hard
I guess I can take some good advice. Never was against that. Truly, I doubt that I will ever be able to power scale correctly, given how we shall never receive official feedback on such things. It is truly sad but at the same time it makes it more nice for someone to power scale.

In the end we don't have a prosecutor to tell us what's right and wrong, even if we do use facts and statements.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:13 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:41 am
p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:29 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:45 am
For me, Uub truly peaked once he finished with his OWN training after he left the lookout. Goku showed him the basics and unlocked his power from nothing to SSJ Buu saga level imo.

But only once Uub went by himself to train (he said it, "I still have a long way" or something) did he reach that Kid Buu level which he used against the Tuffleized Saiyans and Baby. Which is also why his fusion with Buu would result in a Majuub of initial power near Super Buu's level and then in a level of enraged Buuhan, peaking at that point and being a close match for SSJ Baby Vegeta (stronger than SSJ3 Goku), thus forcing the Mutant to use some of his full power to defeat him instantaneously
Again, headcanons. Facts puts that in a different way. Not only because you don't like them means that it isn't the case .
Really, if I can give an advice :
If you want to be a good power scaler, let go any opinion and base your mind on facts.
Again, I'm always here to help and I know that is hard to let go a mindset , specially if you have it from a long time.
But you know what? It is only matter of who helps you. If I did it, you can too.
Personally, if I were alone I wouldn't be as good as a scaler as I am, I owe all to million friends that helped me giving me the right way to see things.
From what I see you're even younger than me, so change your mind shouldn't be that hard
I guess I can take some good advice. Never was against that. Truly, I doubt that I will ever be able to power scale correctly, given how we shall never receive official feedback on such things. It is truly sad but at the same time it makes it more nice for someone to power scale.

In the end we don't have a prosecutor to tell us what's right and wrong, even if we do use facts and statements.
Well, i really think that if we follow guides, statements and the facts displayed in the anime, then we can say that we scale well.
You should believe more in yourself, with the right help it is not that hard.
Guides and such are out "official feedback" , just to use your words .
I can give you help and sources if needed, but we shall continue this in private chat or elsewhere in my opinion. There is a bit uncomfortable to me
remember fellas, anyone in gt after m2 >>>anyone in z (bog + rof excluded obv)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:53 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:54 pm
snip
I just rewatched episode 1
It's true, Dende and Goku imply it was Dende's graduation ceremony. But if Uub is Kid Buu tier, then base Goku is also Kid Buu tier, and Kid Base Goku was stronger than Base Rildo, so... Base Rildo can't be stronger than Buuhan.

I still don't see what's the big deal with Rildo vs Goku. He claims Goku wasn't even using half his power when he goes SS, which is true, and SS Goku makes HM Rildo go Mega Rildo. Mega Rildo now has a tiny advantage over SS Goku.
Base Rildo never faced SS Goku, they both transformed at the same time. They were equals in base with Goku having the edge. The same outcome is repeated when they are transformed, SS Goku is still having the advantage and probably not even going all out, as usual in him(he even goes SS2 for a second against Mega Rildo). It seems you are assuming (and not budging) The Sygma Force added pretty much nothing to Base Rildo when actually SS Goku claims he got a great boost. No need for SS Goku stomping there.

I found nothing that points to needing to change, or actually changing the official SS multiplier. I'm gonna need more than that to retcon Toriyama. And what I meant by the kaioken usage was that is more likely Goku lowkey using it than SS multiplier being retcon from x50 to x2, not that Goku used kaioken. Re-watching the fight, he didn't need to. As neither does the SS multiplier to be retconned.

p-hyvo wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 5:54 pm
And even for uub, even if you don't think that the saiyans had surpassed him, facts just points out the completely opposite thing. Rewatch s17 arc, it points out what I said.
They all go down at the same time after the finger ki blast. Gohan never gets up again and is looked after by Pan and Satan, Goten and Trunks are knocked down by kicks, and Uub gets a stronger attack, that bullet thing from S-17's arm. Vegeta does get up and it takes a little more to go down than the rest.
I don't understand how you got from it that Uub was the weakest, when Gohan was the one that couldn't get up again from the finger ki blast, and Uub received the strongest attack.

And I'm not even bringing to the table Uub one-shotting Rildo and saving Gohan from certain death the previous episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:32 pm

Regarding rildo :
We already know that BoGT uub is as strong as kid buu, and Goku, even if is stronger than him, he isn't a lot stronger. And ok. But the point is : being uub as strong as kid buu, and being kid buu the second strongest buu in the dbz anime verse, once again the only thing that could have surprised Goku is if someone was stronger than rage buuhan, because really , I don't think that a strength comparable to the one he is used to spar with would surprise him that much.
Plus, rildo was compared to buu while surpassed, and even this is to take on a count.
And we have to consider another thing, that makes the scaling skyrocket :
Dr.myu had the data of Goku that giru have himto, and he built both the sigma force and rildo in a way that they could easily beat the Goku that challenged ledgig and hakaishin ruudo. It is pretty displayed how even natt, the weaker sigma member, was meant to beat ssj Goku in the eyes of much. But still, arriving on m2, Goku displayed an enormous and unexpected power, so much power that let him stay suppressed from all the duration of the m2 fight and still being in advantage and win. Really, on m2 Goku displayed all of his stenght only during the final Kamehameha that "killed"hyper mega rildo.Goku gives us a hint onon trunks'es power too, in fact by being angry with him when rildo gets him with his metalizing beam, we come to know that trunks isn't that weaker than Goku, so by proxy he was suppressed too and he already was stronger than rage Buuhan. And after that other power ups are given, but that's not the thing we are discussing. Plus, sigma Force by logic didn't even doubled rildo strength, but still I'm not implying the added nothing. Even a x1,5 times boost on rildo would be considered a big boost in Dragon ball's standards.
So, the scale is like that:

Base goku, fullower>base trunks, Full power>=ssj2 Goku, suppressed>hyoer mega rildo>ssj goku, suppressed>mega rildo>Base Goku on m2,suppressed>Full power rildo>suppressed rildo>rage buuhan>hakaishin ruudo >sigma mega cannon>>nezi>ribet=bizu>natt>ssj Goku agaist ledgig>ledgig>base Goku BoGT>=uub BoGT

I can be ok if you say that this continuous power ups are nonsensical, but I didn't write gt so I ,as well as you and everyone else, can't do anything about that but taking the thing for what it is and discuss it.
Please don't bring opinions into the mix, doing it is distructive
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:04 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:32 pm
Regarding rildo :
We already know that BoGT uub is as strong as kid buu, and Goku, even if is stronger than him, he isn't a lot stronger. And ok. But the point is : being uub as strong as kid buu, and being kid buu the second strongest buu in the dbz anime verse, once again the only thing that could have surprised Goku is if someone was stronger than rage buuhan, because really , I don't think that a strength comparable to the one he is used to spar with would surprise him that much.
Plus, rildo was compared to buu while surpassed, and even this is to take on a count.
And we have to consider another thing, that makes the scaling skyrocket :
Dr.myu had the data of Goku that giru have himto, and he built both the sigma force and rildo in a way that they could easily beat the Goku that challenged ledgig and hakaishin ruudo. It is pretty displayed how even natt, the weaker sigma member, was meant to beat ssj Goku in the eyes of much.
But still, arriving on m2, Goku displayed an enormous and unexpected power, so much power that let him stay suppressed from all the duration of the m2 fight and still being in advantage and win. Really, on m2 Goku displayed all of his stenght only during the final Kamehameha that "killed"hyper mega rildo.Goku gives us a hint onon trunks'es power too, in fact by being angry with him when rildo gets him with his metalizing beam, we come to know that trunks isn't that weaker than Goku, so by proxy he was suppressed too and he already was stronger than rage Buuhan. And after that other power ups are given, but that's not the thing we are discussing.
So, the scale is like that:

Base goku, fullower>base trunks, Full power>=ssj2 Goku, suppressed>hyoer mega rildo>ssj goku, suppressed>mega rildo>Base Goku on m2,suppressed>Full power rildo>suppressed rildo>rage buuhan>hakaishin ruudo >sigma mega cannon>>nezi>ribet=bizu>natt>ssj Goku agaist ledgig>ledgig>base Goku BoGT>=uub BoGT

I can be ok if you say that this continuous power ups are nonsensical, but I didn't write gt so I ,as well as you and everyone else, can't do anything about that but taking the thing for what it is and discuss it.
Please don't bring opinions into the mix, doing it is distructive
This isn't really true, Goku took Uub under his wing, so Kid Buu alone is something that makes Goku feel waku waku. I'm not buying that Base Goku went from Kid Buu tier to Buuhan tier just by dancing with the bonpara, extracting teeth from giants, being the godfather of Lady Trunks's wedding, etc, he didn't train nor was close to death to get a zenkai that would make his power skyrocket like that. We could make a case about Mega Rildo or even HM Rildo being on Buuhan's realm, but Base Rildo fought the same form that Uub faced and lost.

Rildo was already at M2 when they show up, it was built way before Giru betrayed them, he actually was already "alive" when Ruudo was still a thing, he was the guy behind the curtain of the Ruudo arc. I don't know where you got that he was built after all that.

Trunks was in no way stronger than Buuhan, specially in base. That just makes no senses, he was sent into space because he was slacking on his training!

I don't recall bringing opinions into the mix, you were the one claiming SS multiplier was retconned based on a fight that wasn't aching for much analysis. Also you were the one claiming Uub was the weakest in the s-17 arc, not me. You are the one saying that President Base Trunks can solo Z!

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:17 pm

About uub :
I rewatched s17 vs everyone and that's a synopsis :

- vegeta throws to 17 a punch in the face, does nothing and gets thrown away

- uub attacks him with a punch barrage, does nothing. 17 doesn't even no her to watch him and cleans his shoe

- trunks and goten attacks him, still does nothing

- gohan charges a Kamehameha, does nothing. Everyone is shocked, that implies that base gohan's Kamehameha is stronger than every gt fighter (uub, base Goten, trunks and vegeta)

- 17 attacks everyone

- everyone gets up , gohan says he wasn't that angry from a lot of time and goes and, possibly ssj2 basing on that. Goten , trunks and vegeta heavens and uub powers up

- anyone gets to mop the floor again

- while uub is left unable even to stand up, base trunks stands and goes for another useless attack , that implies that ssj trunks has a better endurance than uub, so ssj trunks>uub

It all happens like this
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:51 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:17 pm
About uub :
I rewatched s17 vs everyone and that's a synopsis :

- vegeta throws to 17 a punch in the face, does nothing and gets thrown away

- uub attacks him with a punch barrage, does nothing. 17 doesn't even no her to watch him and cleans his shoe

- trunks and goten attacks him, still does nothing

- gohan charges a Kamehameha, does nothing. Everyone is shocked, that implies that base gohan's Kamehameha is stronger than every gt fighter (uub, base Goten, trunks and vegeta)

- 17 attacks everyone

- everyone gets up , gohan says he wasn't that angry from a lot of time and goes and, possibly ssj2 basing on that. Goten , trunks and vegeta heavens and uub powers up

- anyone gets to mop the floor again

- while uub is left unable even to stand up, base trunks stands and goes for another useless attack , that implies that ssj trunks has a better endurance than uub, so ssj trunks>uub

It all happens like this
There is that small problem though. What if everyone was simply shocked because Gohan was the only one that tried a charged attack? A blast is way superior to a punch. It shows that Super 17 is simply above that tier too.

So in order for us to draw a decent conclusion, all the other fighters would have to blast attack him too. This didn't happen. Since Gohan did it and failed, they all thought that doing similar attacks would be useless, no matter the power difference.

Besides, just 1 arc before, Tuffleized Saiyans combined couldn't defeat Majuub. And we know that even after that, when the arc came to an end, Uub resumed his training again and returned to battle the enemies that returned from Hell. Basically it goes like this for me in terms of power:

Majuub (Enraged Buuhan level, adapted to his full power)>Rilldo (Base, equal to SSJ3 Buu saga Goku/Majin Buu level)>Gohan (Base, unable to keep up with Rilldo because of his abilities though, not really on the verge of death so a SSJ2 Buu saga level for him sounds ok and plausible)

With no powerups really. Majuub still being stronger than the Gohan that was stated to be weaker in the Baby Saga.


As for Uub, nothing ever but ever indicated that him being a reincarnated of Kid Buu would also transfer the Majin's power. He had the potential to. Which is why I believe that in the beginning of GT, he wasn't at that level, and only reached it after training more on his own and returning to action in late Baby saga, good time for Buu to decide to fuse with him.

I am most certain that he also saw that before. Buu should know of Uub's existence, so he decided to unite with him once he was deemed worthy pretty much.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:21 pm

p-hyvo wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:17 pm
About uub :
I rewatched s17 vs everyone and that's a synopsis :

- vegeta throws to 17 a punch in the face, does nothing and gets thrown away

- uub attacks him with a punch barrage, does nothing. 17 doesn't even no her to watch him and cleans his shoe

- trunks and goten attacks him, still does nothing

- gohan charges a Kamehameha, does nothing. Everyone is shocked, that implies that base gohan's Kamehameha is stronger than every gt fighter (uub, base Goten, trunks and vegeta)

- 17 attacks everyone

- everyone gets up , gohan says he wasn't that angry from a lot of time and goes and, possibly ssj2 basing on that. Goten , trunks and vegeta heavens and uub powers up

- anyone gets to mop the floor again

- while uub is left unable even to stand up, base trunks stands and goes for another useless attack , that implies that ssj trunks has a better endurance than uub, so ssj trunks>uub

It all happens like this
I strongly disagree, that implies that Gohan's kamehameha is stronger than punches on their own, which isn't a revelation. A super attack is always stronger than melee attacks.
How could he be stronger than the guy that saved his ass without breaking a sweat two episodes ago? how could he be stronger than Vegeta that went to last much more than Gohan in the following minutes.

Uub was beginning to get up when S-17 gunmachinned him down. That doesn't mean much, so what? Trunks got up a few seconds faster than Uub, you are jumping to conclusions. You are saying untrained saiyans are stronger than Uub who trained with Goku for half a decade because they recovered a little faster than him. But I guess you won't budge about this.

Now Vegeta is a different story, he got up several times and even after-imaged S-17 once, he definitely is above Uub, but not the kids that have been leading regular lives for years and hardly train at all.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:30 pm

Can you both continue this discussion in its proper thread? This one is specific about Dragon Ball Super, not Dragon Ball GT.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:14 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:30 pm
Can you both continue this discussion in its proper thread? This one is specific about Dragon Ball Super, not Dragon Ball GT.
I suspected this lol
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:27 pm

Dunno if this is the right place to make this comparison but, could Android 21 defeat Jiren?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nokra » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:22 pm

shadd21 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:27 pm
Dunno if this is the right place to make this comparison but, could Android 21 defeat Jiren?
She couldn't even defeat a bunch of weakened super warriors (Goku and Vegeta didn't even use god forms). She wouldn't stand a chance against someone who surpasses the GoDs.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 am

But, being honest with you, she has a lot of potential as an enemy.

Of course, that is if we open our horizons with non-Z retell content. Which, truly, happens with nearly every single game and it's boring. Like way too boring.

Given how 17 is back and how 18 was given the spotlight a little in the ToP, she could be the perfect antagonist for someone like Buu (he has to shine a little too).

That and the clones that she created. Not Vegeta and Goku clones. A 16 Clone to be her bodyguard (Gohan could suffer some dilemmas with him and 21 would be aware, so she could use him), and perhaps a 17 clone that would serve his purpose to create a new "Super 17" for DBS, a homage to GT.

Not sure if more things would need to be introduced (such as 13,14,15/Super 13 or bringing back Cell for her to absorb, ultimately opening new boundaries to the story) but she can work out power-wise as a Super opponent.

Vegeta once commented how he would probably have to use his full power (against her transformed state that had absorbed some individuals) to bring her down and that of course means SSJB.

Can't see 21, even in the game's case where she also absorbs Cell on top of everyone else, to surpass Blue level. Why not having the allies to do so though?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:32 am

Just had this in mind.

Didn't Toriyama state once that 2 SSJBs should be able to take on Merged Zamasu? If so, then both Toei and Toyotaro didn't get that far from this.

I mean, Toyotaro stayed loyal to the idea and had the likes of Perfected SSJB rivaling Merged Zamasu, with Vegito having a clear advantage over him. In the end Zamasu had to multiply in order to face off against our heroes.

In Toei's case, they decided to give him transformations to augment his strength. Which is also why Goku bringing down Halo Form Zamasu with Blue KK makes sense. He had to get stronger to face them. His corrupted form was pretty much his equivalent to the enraged SSJR that Black showcased.

Ultimately, my final verdict is that Merged Zamasu is indeed weak as a fusion. Strong enough to rival Gods, but he either requires forms or multiplication to get the upper hand. Also evident of Future Zamasu being merely a Base level opponent. Not a SSJB or even SSJ one. Being immortal is his guarantee that no one will defeat him.

What do you think?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:19 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:32 am
Just had this in mind.

Didn't Toriyama state once that 2 SSJBs should be able to take on Merged Zamasu? If so, then both Toei and Toyotaro didn't get that far from this.

I mean, Toyotaro stayed loyal to the idea and had the likes of Perfected SSJB rivaling Merged Zamasu, with Vegito having a clear advantage over him. In the end Zamasu had to multiply in order to face off against our heroes.

In Toei's case, they decided to give him transformations to augment his strength. Which is also why Goku bringing down Halo Form Zamasu with Blue KK makes sense. He had to get stronger to face them. His corrupted form was pretty much his equivalent to the enraged SSJR that Black showcased.

Ultimately, my final verdict is that Merged Zamasu is indeed weak as a fusion. Strong enough to rival Gods, but he either requires forms or multiplication to get the upper hand. Also evident of Future Zamasu being merely a Base level opponent. Not a SSJB or even SSJ one. Being immortal is his guarantee that no one will defeat him.

What do you think?
Makes sense. Though I think the Toriyama quote was supposed to be that Merged Zamasu would be trouble for a Super Saiyan Blue, though maybe the 2 SSBs part was also mentioned.

The base unchanged Merged Zamasu, the one that stayed the same in the manga and the one that initially fought the Saiyans before getting his halo broken, does line up with Toriyama's outline of the character.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:43 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:19 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:32 am
Just had this in mind.

Didn't Toriyama state once that 2 SSJBs should be able to take on Merged Zamasu? If so, then both Toei and Toyotaro didn't get that far from this.

I mean, Toyotaro stayed loyal to the idea and had the likes of Perfected SSJB rivaling Merged Zamasu, with Vegito having a clear advantage over him. In the end Zamasu had to multiply in order to face off against our heroes.

In Toei's case, they decided to give him transformations to augment his strength. Which is also why Goku bringing down Halo Form Zamasu with Blue KK makes sense. He had to get stronger to face them. His corrupted form was pretty much his equivalent to the enraged SSJR that Black showcased.

Ultimately, my final verdict is that Merged Zamasu is indeed weak as a fusion. Strong enough to rival Gods, but he either requires forms or multiplication to get the upper hand. Also evident of Future Zamasu being merely a Base level opponent. Not a SSJB or even SSJ one. Being immortal is his guarantee that no one will defeat him.

What do you think?
Makes sense. Though I think the Toriyama quote was supposed to be that Merged Zamasu would be trouble for a Super Saiyan Blue, though maybe the 2 SSBs part was also mentioned.

The base unchanged Merged Zamasu, the one that stayed the same in the manga and the one that initially fought the Saiyans before getting his halo broken, does line up with Toriyama's outline of the character.
I had this in mind and since you mentioned it let me ask you. The wiki (I don't trust it of course) states that Merged Zamasu's "Base" form is different than his Halo form. And you compared the Zamasu before getting the Halo (although I guess you could mean the fact that he didn't have one in the manga, or did he?).

Anyway, if that's the case, then I can't understand something. Power-wise, it helps though.

If "Base" Zamasu is in a permanent SSJR state, then what would his Halo form be? An enhanced variant? Because his Grotesque/Half-corrupted/Corrupted (call it whatever you like lol) state is literally an enraged SSJR. And I have said before that his giant form is like a mix of the giantification and the third grade SSJ, essentially a power stressed SSJR.

Where would this "Base" Zamasu and his Halo form fall? As for a power increase it wouldn't make sense, as it was Halo Zamasu in the anime that got defeated by KK Blue.

I had it like this:
  • (Base/Halo form) = 4×SSJB (gradually gets weaker and falls to 2×SSJB, but he replenishes his strength later by transforming again)
  • (Grotesque/Corrupted) = 2×Halo form simply an enraged variant. I had in mind Vegeta Blue as a 1, Quake of Fury Blue Vegeta as a 2, Rose Black as a 1.5 and Enraged Rose Black as a 3 (same power increase through anger, but overall Black is superior) so the same happens with Zamasu who also recovers his past strength and with Goku unable to use KK and without access to superior forms, fusion is the option. 8×SSJB (Peak)
  • (Giant form) = a mix of giantification and power stressed forms. Enlargement for strength increase, but at the same time muscle mass increase for additional superior strength, perhaps no increase in speed but even if there was Vegito Blue is faster hense his statement. So, a 5×Grotesque would be enough. Or 40×Blue. Definitely a good comparison to the form being below 1st Ultra Instinct Omen in power.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:54 am

I think he is saying that Zamas was simply envisioned to be stronger than one Super Saiyan Blue and weaker than two Super Saiyans Blue. That’s what happens in his halo version and his manga version.

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SupremeKai25
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:20 am

Fused Zamasu in the anime was indeed able to overwhelm a team-up of two Super Saiyans Blue, as you can see here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm_f6Z8ekZU

And here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCYAm6R6WSg&t=52s

In the first video he actually effotlessly stomped both Goku and Vegeta. And by stomped, I mean "oneshot them right back into base form". So no, Zamasu in the anime was definitely stronger than two Super Saiyans Blue. Vegeta managed to overwhelm him only because he was just messing around, whereas Goku did defeat him but only after literally breaking his limits and his limbs.

Also, distinguishing between "Base" Fused Zamasu (which only appeared for like 5 seconds at the beginning of the episode, if you're referring to Fused Zamasu when he still didn't have the halo) and "Halo" Fused Zamasu is stupid in my opinion. Zamasu only has two forms: the Halo form and the Grotesque form.
"You give corruption far too much credit, evil does not inform good. It sullies it, like the Babari sullied their world with violence, and that arrogant Goku sullied this sacred ground by swinging his fists at a God. Mortals receive the divine gift of intellect, the potential for wisdom, but they misuse it to destroy the beauty of creation. Mortals do not succumb to evil, they are the evil. They create it, and spread it with minds they shouldn't possess. How can we call ourselves gods if we watch this plight and do nothing to stop it?"

Zamasu/Fused Zamasu fan.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:41 am

hypothesis:

both Zamasu's Giant Grotesque and Broly:BR's Full Power are actually "just" SS1Grade-3 transformations.
(or the equivalent in Zamasu's case)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:46 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:41 am
hypothesis:

both Zamasu's Giant Grotesque and Broly:BR's Full Power are actually "just" SS1Grade-3 transformations.
(or the equivalent in Zamasu's case)
Would make sense. But truly, we don't even fully know how Grade 3 works on itself. I think that Broly's and Kale's forms, are of a different line. We don't like it (many seem to not) but they are essentially "Legendary SSJs".

Zamasu's case is perhaps more like that. But his shinjin physiology may make it different. Unless Broly attains a new level of power like SSJ2, we can't be sure of what FP SSJ is. But Kale did go a step further.

A good explanation is needed and I doubt that we shall ever get it.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

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