Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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ZombieVito
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:19 pm

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:30 pm
Gogeta vs godslayer hearts...


wow did i not expect that. that would bump fusion up quite a lot.

vegito blue being base kamba level in the anime was horrible to be honest


https://twitter.com/DB_HEROES/status/11 ... 0450551809
Wait. Didn't Kaioken Vegetto Blue failed to beat that evil Saiyan?

How the hell will Gogeta beat Hearts?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Block88 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:33 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:19 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:30 pm
Gogeta vs godslayer hearts...


wow did i not expect that. that would bump fusion up quite a lot.

vegito blue being base kamba level in the anime was horrible to be honest


https://twitter.com/DB_HEROES/status/11 ... 0450551809
Wait. Didn't Kaioken Vegetto Blue failed to beat that evil Saiyan?

How the hell will Gogeta beat Hearts?
>Expecting consistency from a promotional advertisement from Toei

Ohhh boy

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:42 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:19 pm
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:30 pm
Gogeta vs godslayer hearts...


wow did i not expect that. that would bump fusion up quite a lot.

vegito blue being base kamba level in the anime was horrible to be honest


https://twitter.com/DB_HEROES/status/11 ... 0450551809
Wait. Didn't Kaioken Vegetto Blue failed to beat that evil Saiyan?

How the hell will Gogeta beat Hearts?
no. he failed in the anime. regular blue vegito beat cumber in the game.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:46 am

And here we go: Jiren nerfed in the latest episode of Super Dragon Ball Heroes.

They managed to pull it off. :clap:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:29 am

I believe that we can have a couple of excuses as to why everyone performs like this. With just some thought it can make sense. And of course you have to nerf an old character for the sake of presenting a new one who is also regarded strong, or else Jiren would pretty much be the answer to the entire roaster of Super 2. Like have him beat up everyone since he is above any GoD.
My posts will speak for myself! :)

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by p-hyvo » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:43 am

Simply, hearts is so over powered in comparison to everyone else that everyone pretty much performs the same against him
I feel like if i Say here where do i get numerically with dbgt/dbs Power levels, someone will get a stroke.
Better to not talk about dragon ball heroes ones, i swear
Lol

Also i don't wanna be rude, even if i know i can seem It sometimes. I'm Just too harsh in some occasions, that's It. I can't control that. Is not that i want to be and asshole or mean to you, i Simply don't know how to Say what i think i other ways .Just clarifying

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:23 pm

if people scream nerfed at jiren, then others are allowed to scream nerfed at vegito blue.
there is no cherry picking.

but hearts is just so powerful that Jiren and hit are the same to him

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 am

Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:23 pm
but hearts is just so powerful that Jiren and hit are the same to him
Exactly. Same way Base Cumber was so strong SSG Goku and SSBKK Vegito were the same :)

Anyways. I just read the latest manga chapter and the bit about Gohan being the strongest on Earth threw me off a bit. iirc Goku said 17 was as strong as him. Shouldn't that make Gohan weaker than 17 by default?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:19 am

Nevaeh wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 am
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:23 pm
but hearts is just so powerful that Jiren and hit are the same to him
Exactly. Same way Base Cumber was so strong SSG Goku and SSBKK Vegito were the same :)

Anyways. I just read the latest manga chapter and the bit about Gohan being the strongest on Earth threw me off a bit. iirc Goku said 17 was as strong as him. Shouldn't that make Gohan weaker than 17 by default?
Well, if we look towards the anime for extra clarification, it does seem like 17 and Gohan are around the same level of raw power.

It's not a stretch to think that they're relative equals in both mediums.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Kenneth La Torre » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:47 pm

Nevaeh wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 am
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:23 pm
but hearts is just so powerful that Jiren and hit are the same to him
Exactly. Same way Base Cumber was so strong SSG Goku and SSBKK Vegito were the same :)

pretty much. tho in the arcade version, even ssj cumber couldnt defeat ssb vegito (no kaioken). so it depends on witch iteration you are talking about. ssbkk vegito was able to fight on par with golden great ape cumber in the manga. that is an insane feat.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:20 pm

For Cumber, right?

The crazier thing about this is that, if we follow proper scaling, that makes Cumber stronger than both Broly, Gogeta and all Gods of Destruction.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Issei189 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:30 am

Nevaeh wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:47 am
Kenneth La Torre wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:23 pm
but hearts is just so powerful that Jiren and hit are the same to him
Exactly. Same way Base Cumber was so strong SSG Goku and SSBKK Vegito were the same :)

Anyways. I just read the latest manga chapter and the bit about Gohan being the strongest on Earth threw me off a bit. iirc Goku said 17 was as strong as him. Shouldn't that make Gohan weaker than 17 by default?
Goku used the words 17 is just about as strong as us ( Vegeta standing right there) which implied he was in the same tier as them just like Gohan, so Goku never said 17 was exactly strong as him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:34 am

Thani wrote:
Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:20 pm
For Cumber, right?

The crazier thing about this is that, if we follow proper scaling, that makes Cumber stronger than both Broly, Gogeta and all Gods of Destruction.
If Vegetto is stronger than those people, which we don’t know yet.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:49 am

If we agree that Broly is, at least, on par with Beerus, then yeah. Gogeta wiped the floor with Broly in Blue, and this arc happened after Broly's movie, so Vegito had to be equal to Gogeta in all forms.

Honestly I don't think they gave much thought to those things, since Jiren being all casual and shit still managed to kick Cumber's ass.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:57 am

Thani wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:49 am
If we agree that Broly is, at least, on par with Beerus, then yeah. Gogeta wiped the floor with Broly in Blue, and this arc happened after Broly's movie, so Vegito had to be equal to Gogeta in all forms.

Honestly I don't think they gave much thought to those things, since Jiren being all casual and shit still managed to kick Cumber's ass.
We don’t know how Vegetto compares to Gogeta. He might be weaker, considering how incredibly difficult is to perform a perfect Fusion.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:05 am

But there's no "perfect fusion" apart for the right way to do it, as far as the franchise bothered to explain. Do it wrong and you get a botched version of the fusion fighter.

The dance needs the fusees to be equals, including in strength, but the potara do not. So with Goku and Vegeta being equals, Gogeta is equal to Vegito. If one fusee is weaker than the other, then Vegito will be stronger. Both mechanics were explained in the Buu Saga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:13 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:57 am
We don’t know how Vegetto compares to Gogeta. He might be weaker, considering how incredibly difficult is to perform a perfect Fusion.
pretty much every time they are compared in side materials, they are called equals.
No reason to believe one is weaker than the other.

If anything, the one thing making Gogeta "less good" is he need the fusion dance, arguably a more cumbersome method of fusion compared to Potara

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:40 pm

Thani wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:05 am
But there's no "perfect fusion" apart for the right way to do it, as far as the franchise bothered to explain. Do it wrong and you get a botched version of the fusion fighter.

The dance needs the fusees to be equals, including in strength, but the potara do not. So with Goku and Vegeta being equals, Gogeta is equal to Vegito. If one fusee is weaker than the other, then Vegito will be stronger. Both mechanics were explained in the Buu Saga.
I’m talking about the extreme in-sync state their minds have to attain to result in a perfectly performed Fusion, which is what supplemental stuff usually talks about when comparing it with the Potara, which doesn’t have that special trait. The original manga doesn’t explain how they compare.
ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:13 pm
pretty much every time they are compared in side materials, they are called equals.
No reason to believe one is weaker than the other.

If anything, the one thing making Gogeta "less good" is he need the fusion dance, arguably a more cumbersome method of fusion compared to Potara
They are advertised as equally matched trump cards, but considering Fusion has that drawback and lasts half the time of Potara, being a more powerful version should even things out. That debate is better detailed at Herms’ twitter.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Melkaniator » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:46 am

I think Gogeta will not defeat Hearts, mot likely Goku will go UI again.
Thani wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:05 am
So with Goku and Vegeta being equals, Gogeta is equal to Vegito. If one fusee is weaker than the other, then Vegito will be stronger.
Having the same power level is fusion requirement, not fusion result power level.
DBS anime is a fan service series that delivers irrelevant dialogue, inconsistent writing, and lazy designs.

The DB manga never had so many mistakes, nor those were this constant.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:12 am

This question is about the manga, which I will make time to re-read it soon, but I want opinions:

Is Manga Jiren stronger than Manga Beerus?
does he have any feats to put him above him?

they both stomped Perfect Blue Vegeta IIRC, but I don't remember much from the manga, that's why I need to re-visit it again.

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