Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Zarely]

Goku said he was going to use a little power for this one. Not that it was a little more power otherwise why not use Super Saiyan 3?

[Omgzord]

Goku said he was going to use a little power for this one. Not that it was a little more power otherwise why not use Super Saiyan 3?

Same reason why he went Blue against the wolves brothers and Rebriane.

PLOT.

[Miracles]

Nowhere was it stated that Goku was holding back in Blue. Besides that headcanon just contradicts TOEI's plot line of Goku/Vegeta trying to use Blue sparingly since it drains too much energy. To use Blue just so they could hold back in order to waste energy is counterproductive.

It was.

Goku himself says he will use only a little more power while going Blue and Belmod said Goku was going to finally go full power in Blue right before his fight with Jiren.

That doesn't say he's holding back. Nor did it mean he's holding back cause he went Blue. That's just headcanon trying to twist narration.

[ankokudaishogun]

Goku said he was going to use a little power for this one. Not that it was a little more power otherwise why not use Super Saiyan 3?

Because Blue isn't much more tiring than 3(hell, probably it's less tiring! SS3 is just a failure) AND grants Goku the ki control to modify his power as little as necessary.

[ZombieVito]

Nowhere was it stated that Goku was holding back in Blue. Besides that headcanon just contradicts TOEI's plot line of Goku/Vegeta trying to use Blue sparingly since it drains too much energy. To use Blue just so they could hold back in order to waste energy is counterproductive.

It was.

Goku himself says he will use only a little more power while going Blue and Belmod said Goku was going to finally go full power in Blue right before his fight with Jiren.

That doesn't say he's holding back. Nor did it mean he's holding back cause he went Blue. That's just headcanon trying to twist narration.

You can believe what you like.

Having rewatched 109, even Kai describes Goku Blue as "his full power state". Hell, he tells Belmod that beating Goku will make the other warriors lose their will to fight. If Kale was already stronger than Blue then this wouldn't make sense.

[Zarely]

So how strong is Gohan meant to be compared to other characters? Is he stronger than the likes of Goku Black? Future Trunks?

Because Blue isn't much more tiring than 3(hell, probably it's less tiring! SS3 is just a failure) AND grants Goku the ki control to modify his power as little as necessary.

But then why use 3 later against the two?

[TheNingen]

So how strong is Gohan meant to be compared to other characters? Is he stronger than the likes of Goku Black? Future Trunks?

Because Blue isn't much more tiring than 3(hell, probably it's less tiring! SS3 is just a failure) AND grants Goku the ki control to modify his power as little as necessary.

But then why use 3 later against the two?

Because he was excited and at the moment that was the highest he could go at the current moment. This was already stated. He didn't have the stamina needed to use God or Blue.

[ZombieVito]

So how strong is Gohan meant to be compared to other characters? Is he stronger than the likes of Goku Black? Future Trunks?

Because Blue isn't much more tiring than 3(hell, probably it's less tiring! SS3 is just a failure) AND grants Goku the ki control to modify his power as little as necessary.

But then why use 3 later against the two?

Depends entirely where you have both of them compared to Goku/Freeza/Vegeta/Toppo at the ToP.

Gohan is noticeable weaker than Toppo since even with 17's help he couldn't do anything to the former.

SSB Goku = Golden Freeza > Vegeta >= Toppo >> Gohan >= 17.

I personally have it like this:

SSB Goku = Golden Freeza = SSR Goku Black > Vegeta >= Toppo > Future Trunks > Gohan >= 17.

[Koitsukai]

So how strong is Gohan meant to be compared to other characters? Is he stronger than the likes of Goku Black? Future Trunks?

Because Blue isn't much more tiring than 3(hell, probably it's less tiring! SS3 is just a failure) AND grants Goku the ki control to modify his power as little as necessary.

But then why use 3 later against the two?

He used SS3 against the girls to show off and because he couldn't yet go higher and SS2 wasn't gonna cut it for that particular defense. He let go of SS3 almost immediately.

ToP Gohan to me is only behind Golden Freeza, Toppo, and Goku Black. Hit too of course, but not because of raw strenght but because of his particular abilities.

[Zarely]

I know that Gohan isn't as strong as Top or Golden Frieza but I don't know about Goku Black or Hit or Super Saiyan God.

Gohan is stronger than Android 17 though because they said that.

[Miracles]

It was.

Goku himself says he will use only a little more power while going Blue and Belmod said Goku was going to finally go full power in Blue right before his fight with Jiren.

That doesn't say he's holding back. Nor did it mean he's holding back cause he went Blue. That's just headcanon trying to twist narration.

You can believe what you like.

Having rewatched 109, even Kai describes Goku Blue as "his full power state". Hell, he tells Belmod that beating Goku will make the other warriors lose their will to fight. If Kale was already stronger than Blue then this wouldn't make sense.

That doesn't state Goku's holding back either. That's you reaching. Fact is, Goku is not holding back when going Blue. His highest form in terms of power. Especially when the story had him use Blue only when necessary since it drains too much power. You are just contradicting the plot everywhere.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

So, knowing that SSB can be controlled down to minimal levels because Ki control, I wonder just how much stronger Goku decided to make it to show his point to Krillin. Maybe twice as much as the amount of power in his base form? Krillin's hands were shaking from how much power he himself put into the attack, almost like how Goku shot out his arms with his Kamehameha against Merged Zamasu by putting out so much power.

[ZombieVito]

That doesn't say he's holding back. Nor did it mean he's holding back cause he went Blue. That's just headcanon trying to twist narration.

You can believe what you like.

Having rewatched 109, even Kai describes Goku Blue as "his full power state". Hell, he tells Belmod that beating Goku will make the other warriors lose their will to fight. If Kale was already stronger than Blue then this wouldn't make sense.

That doesn't state Goku's holding back either. That's you reaching. Fact is, Goku is not holding back when going Blue. His highest form in terms of power. Especially when the story had him use Blue only when necessary since it drains too much power. You are just contradicting the plot everywhere.

So the rest of the fighters will lose the will to fight when Jiren beats someone weaker than the fighter he beat 9 episodes earlier?

OK.

[Miracles]

You can believe what you like.

Having rewatched 109, even Kai describes Goku Blue as "his full power state". Hell, he tells Belmod that beating Goku will make the other warriors lose their will to fight. If Kale was already stronger than Blue then this wouldn't make sense.

That doesn't state Goku's holding back either. That's you reaching. Fact is, Goku is not holding back when going Blue. His highest form in terms of power. Especially when the story had him use Blue only when necessary since it drains too much power. You are just contradicting the plot everywhere.

So the rest of the fighters will lose the will to fight when Jiren beats someone weaker than the fighter he beat 9 episodes earlier?

OK.

I'm not arguing Kale is stronger than Blue Goku. I'm merely stating the narrative fact that Goku going Blue isn't him holding back.

[Hugo Boss]

The power Goku used against Jiren encompasses SSBlue with kaioken and genkidama, all he got at the moment. Against Kale he only used SSBlue with kamehameha, so that wouldn’t count as Goku using his full power anyway, as he didn’t feel threatened by Kale. In contrast, Jiren made him sweat even before starting their fight. When he says he is going to use “a little more power” against Kale, that’s obviously an euphemism. SSBlue is much more powerful than SS2.

[ZombieVito]

That doesn't state Goku's holding back either. That's you reaching. Fact is, Goku is not holding back when going Blue. His highest form in terms of power. Especially when the story had him use Blue only when necessary since it drains too much power. You are just contradicting the plot everywhere.

So the rest of the fighters will lose the will to fight when Jiren beats someone weaker than the fighter he beat 9 episodes earlier?

OK.

I'm not arguing Kale is stronger than Blue Goku. I'm merely stating the narrative fact that Goku going Blue isn't him holding back.

So I guess Kuririn is god tier then.

Cool.

[Miracles]

So the rest of the fighters will lose the will to fight when Jiren beats someone weaker than the fighter he beat 9 episodes earlier?

OK.

I'm not arguing Kale is stronger than Blue Goku. I'm merely stating the narrative fact that Goku going Blue isn't him holding back.

So I guess Kuririn is god tier then.

Cool.

That was a TOEI inconsistency to the plot. It was contradicted in the TOP where their narration said Goku can only use Blue when necessary for fear of it's power drain. DB canon never had them power up to their best form just to lower it to farmer level.

The power Goku used against Jiren encompasses SSBlue with kaioken and genkidama, all he got at the moment. Against Kale he only used SSBlue with kamehameha, so that wouldn’t count as Goku using his full power anyway, as he didn’t feel threatened by Kale. In contrast, Jiren made him sweat even before starting their fight. When he says he is going to use “a little more power” against Kale, that’s obviously an euphemism. SSBlue is much more powerful than SS2.

I'm not denying that Goku has techniques to ADD to Blue. I've also said he didn't use KK on top of Blue. Which technically would be his full power. However, without those adages, Goku going Blue in terms of pure form is his best when it comes to power.

[ZombieVito]

I'm not arguing Kale is stronger than Blue Goku. I'm merely stating the narrative fact that Goku going Blue isn't him holding back.

So I guess Kuririn is god tier then.

Cool.

That was a TOEI inconsistency to the plot. It was contradicted in the TOP where their narration said Goku can only use Blue when necessary for fear of it's power drain. DB canon never had them power up to their best form just to lower it to farmer level.

The power Goku used against Jiren encompasses SSBlue with kaioken and genkidama, all he got at the moment. Against Kale he only used SSBlue with kamehameha, so that wouldn’t count as Goku using his full power anyway, as he didn’t feel threatened by Kale. In contrast, Jiren made him sweat even before starting their fight. When he says he is going to use “a little more power” against Kale, that’s obviously an euphemism. SSBlue is much more powerful than SS2.

I'm not denying that Goku has techniques to ADD to Blue. I've also said he didn't use KK on top of Blue. Which technically would be his full power. However, without those adages, Goku going Blue in terms of pure form is his best when it comes to power.

Or Goku can use Blue and hold back against him. Like the writers fucking said happened.

I honestly don't know why I even bother with this. The show is clear that Goku didn't use the full power of Blue until episode 109 and later episodes confirm Kale was not even on SSG level yet.

[Miracles]

So I guess Kuririn is god tier then.

Cool.

That was a TOEI inconsistency to the plot. It was contradicted in the TOP where their narration said Goku can only use Blue when necessary for fear of it's power drain. DB canon never had them power up to their best form just to lower it to farmer level.

The power Goku used against Jiren encompasses SSBlue with kaioken and genkidama, all he got at the moment. Against Kale he only used SSBlue with kamehameha, so that wouldn’t count as Goku using his full power anyway, as he didn’t feel threatened by Kale. In contrast, Jiren made him sweat even before starting their fight. When he says he is going to use “a little more power” against Kale, that’s obviously an euphemism. SSBlue is much more powerful than SS2.

I'm not denying that Goku has techniques to ADD to Blue. I've also said he didn't use KK on top of Blue. Which technically would be his full power. However, without those adages, Goku going Blue in terms of pure form is his best when it comes to power.

Or Goku can use Blue and hold back against him. Like the writers fucking said happened.

I honestly don't know why I even bother with this. The show is clear that Goku didn't use the full power of Blue until episode 109 and later episodes confirm Kale was not even on SSG level yet.

No, low budget TOEI never stated Goku was holding back going Blue against Krillin. They even note the difference in power. To the point 18 had to step in. In order to get the point across that the TOP was not just about power but teamwork.

lololol terrible writing.

[Zarely]

I'm going to name 20 characters up to the Tournament of Power and people can tell me if they think it's the right order or not.

1. Jiren
2. Super Saiyan Blue Vegito
3. Beerus
4. Champa
5. Fused Zamasu

6. Super Saiyan Blue Goku
6. Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
6. Golden Frieza
6. Top

10. Super Saiyan Rage Future Trunks
11. Hit
12. Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black
13. Ultimate Gohan
14. Android 17
15. Dyspo
16. Legendary Super Saiyan Kale
17. Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla
18. Super Saiyan 2 Cabba
19. Zamasu
20. Magetta