Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am

Mister_Popo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:28 am
Where do you guys place the new Omen-form in comparison to the sylver-haired form during TOP?
Of course Omen has become seriously more powerful than the original Omen we saw during TOP, but would it be enough to best the sylver-haired form during TOP?
Imo, if I had to take the anime into consideration (because the anime is the main power scale for me) I would say that this pumped up Omen is probably enough to push Jiren at full power.

What I mean is: the first Omen never pushed Jiren at full power. Only the third Omen did. The boost was always the same, but Goku just grew in power. But this pumped up Omen would probably be enough to push Jiren at full power from the first encounter.

Now, it's still Omen. But ofc, utilizing it means that you won't get MUI. So if anime Goku used this, even in his final fight, Jiren would probably prevail. When he even challenged MUI, and Goku won by getting a rage boost.

Omen = 50×Blue for my headcanon
Pumped Up Omen = 100×Blue ≈ FP Jiren
MUI = 130×Blue ≈ SFP/LB Jiren
-rage boost = 150×blue ≈ blue fusion

Just for fun, I would put FPSS3 Broly = 160×Blue

And Moro shouldn't have the strength or speed to go up there, but he probably is something between 50 and 100 times Blue

Headcanon I know and the fusion numbers don't match and stuff, but they don't have to. Trying to scale with numbers doesn't really work. That's what I have learned.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri May 22, 2020 10:00 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
Mister_Popo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:28 am
Where do you guys place the new Omen-form in comparison to the sylver-haired form during TOP?
Of course Omen has become seriously more powerful than the original Omen we saw during TOP, but would it be enough to best the sylver-haired form during TOP?
Imo, if I had to take the anime into consideration (because the anime is the main power scale for me) I would say that this pumped up Omen is probably enough to push Jiren at full power.

What I mean is: the first Omen never pushed Jiren at full power. Only the third Omen did. The boost was always the same, but Goku just grew in power. But this pumped up Omen would probably be enough to push Jiren at full power from the first encounter.

Now, it's still Omen. But ofc, utilizing it means that you won't get MUI. So if anime Goku used this, even in his final fight, Jiren would probably prevail. When he even challenged MUI, and Goku won by getting a rage boost.

Omen = 50×Blue for my headcanon
Pumped Up Omen = 100×Blue ≈ FP Jiren
MUI = 130×Blue ≈ SFP/LB Jiren
-rage boost = 150×blue ≈ blue fusion

Just for fun, I would put FPSS3 Broly = 160×Blue

And Moro shouldn't have the strength or speed to go up there, but he probably is something between 50 and 100 times Blue

Headcanon I know and the fusion numbers don't match and stuff, but they don't have to. Trying to scale with numbers doesn't really work. That's what I have learned.


Thx for sharing this, it's definitely an intresting thought.
I agree with you on where i kinda would place the new full-power Omen.
(I'm still not a fan though a rage boost or pump can stress UI Omen or MUI.
Even if it does not work for long, i still think it devaluates the forms to the levels of the classic- and God-forms.
I hope they'll apply it right and consequent after Goku masters UI: no more overly expressive kiais or rage-like power-ups, just a state of balance like the angels are in during battle.)

Moro is already stated to be above the Gods, and he completely manhandled full-power Omen, we don't know exactly how strong he is.
But i'd place him above 100 times Blue in that scenario, more within the realm of MUI TOP or just below that (120 x Blue).

I'd put full-power Jiren between MUI and rage boost MUI.
Jiren became stronger to challenge MUI, so in in order to counter it, Goku apparently needed the rage boost.

I agree full-power Broly feels stronger as these guys.
It seems Broly was really as strong as hell, if you consider how much boost fusion gives (fe Kefla or Vegetto, if we consider dance and rings evenly worthy) and how he even tanked Gogeta Blues Stardust Breaker.
Blue Gogeta needed a Kamehameha, it's strongest attack, to finish Broly.
I'd consider full-power Broly above Jiren and MUI full power, and Gogeta Blue well above all those levels, if we respect common logic.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:51 am

https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/12 ... 0934290432


Image

A rundown of the God forms. What's interesting is the fact that it mentions Vegito rivals Beerus. Kaioshin questioned if Vegito was superior, but this gives us a more solid comparison. So we more or less have Vegito=Beerus

Surely Mastered Ultra Instinct, Gogeta, and Broly should be comfortably ahead of that level of power, right?
"First I whip it out! Then I thrust it! With great force! Every angle...! It penetrates! Until...! With great strength...! I... ram it in! In the end... We are all satisfied... And you are set free...!" ~Dante~

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri May 22, 2020 10:56 am

Mister_Popo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:00 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:34 am
Mister_Popo wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:28 am
Where do you guys place the new Omen-form in comparison to the sylver-haired form during TOP?
Of course Omen has become seriously more powerful than the original Omen we saw during TOP, but would it be enough to best the sylver-haired form during TOP?
Imo, if I had to take the anime into consideration (because the anime is the main power scale for me) I would say that this pumped up Omen is probably enough to push Jiren at full power.

What I mean is: the first Omen never pushed Jiren at full power. Only the third Omen did. The boost was always the same, but Goku just grew in power. But this pumped up Omen would probably be enough to push Jiren at full power from the first encounter.

Now, it's still Omen. But ofc, utilizing it means that you won't get MUI. So if anime Goku used this, even in his final fight, Jiren would probably prevail. When he even challenged MUI, and Goku won by getting a rage boost.

Omen = 50×Blue for my headcanon
Pumped Up Omen = 100×Blue ≈ FP Jiren
MUI = 130×Blue ≈ SFP/LB Jiren
-rage boost = 150×blue ≈ blue fusion

Just for fun, I would put FPSS3 Broly = 160×Blue

And Moro shouldn't have the strength or speed to go up there, but he probably is something between 50 and 100 times Blue

Headcanon I know and the fusion numbers don't match and stuff, but they don't have to. Trying to scale with numbers doesn't really work. That's what I have learned.


Thx for sharing this, it's definitely an intresting thought.
I agree with you on where i kinda would place the new full-power Omen.
(I'm still not a fan though a rage boost or pump can stress UI Omen or MUI.
Even if it does not work for long, i still think it devaluates the forms to the levels of the classic- and God-forms.
I hope they'll apply it right and consequent after Goku masters UI: no more overly expressive kiais or rage-like power-ups, just a state of balance like the angels are in during battle.)

Moro is already stated to be above the Gods, and he completely manhandled full-power Omen, we don't know exactly how strong he is.
But i'd place him above 100 times Blue in that scenario, more within the realm of MUI TOP or just below that (120 x Blue).

I'd put full-power Jiren between MUI and rage boost MUI.
Jiren became stronger to challenge MUI, so in in order to counter it, Goku apparently needed the rage boost.

I agree full-power Broly feels stronger as these guys.
It seems Broly was really as strong as hell, if you consider how much boost fusion gives (fe Kefla or Vegetto, if we consider dance and rings evenly worthy) and how he even tanked Gogeta Blues Stardust Breaker.
Blue Gogeta needed a Kamehameha, it's strongest attack, to finish Broly.
I'd consider full-power Broly above Jiren and MUI full power, and Gogeta Blue well above all those levels, if we respect common logic.
I guess it's how we veiw that momentary/kinda permanent boost in MUI's power.

Since SFP Jiren was holding his ground against MUI Goku and didn't look like he was losing. Ofc neither was Goku. But only that boost would end the fight. But as I said, I think that it was a boost in the form that he fully absorbed.

Also, on Broly, I definitely see him reaching that tier.

As you said about Moro, he def is above 100×Blue
(makes you wonder if Goku will use a KK×100 Blue to fight him in the anime, since in the anime he is certain that he can't active UI again).

Just for fun, other characters I put at above 100×Blue would be Ultimate Godslayer Hearts and Dark King/Power of Time released Mechikaboola.

2 heroes villains, but they do fit in this scaling.

Because the one required SS4 XVegito and the other SSB Gogeta. 2 roughly equal power houses near that MUI tier.

As for the GoD level of power. I have it starting at 30×Blue with Toppo.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Mister_Popo » Fri May 22, 2020 11:25 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:51 am
https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/12 ... 0934290432


Image

A rundown of the God forms. What's interesting is the fact that it mentions Vegito rivals Beerus. Kaioshin questioned if Vegito was superior, but this gives us a more solid comparison. So we more or less have Vegito=Beerus

Surely Mastered Ultra Instinct, Gogeta, and Broly should be comfortably ahead of that level of power, right?


Beerus is a 'special case' as he seems to get a lot of plot armor when it comes to exact battle strength.
His exact power always seems to shift with the new traits that come along, to keep him relevant as the benchmark.
At least until now.

But if we go with the statement Vegetto Blue = Beerus by the time of the Zamasu arc ...
If that would really be the case.
Both Goku and Vegeta had a serious workout during TOP, where as Beerus sat on his lazy ass in the stands.
Then all those guys (MUI Goku, Gogeta, Broly ...) are now ahead of Beerus i would say, yes.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Fri May 22, 2020 12:36 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:51 am
https://twitter.com/Cipher_db/status/12 ... 0934290432


Image

A rundown of the God forms. What's interesting is the fact that it mentions Vegito rivals Beerus. Kaioshin questioned if Vegito was superior, but this gives us a more solid comparison. So we more or less have Vegito=Beerus

Surely Mastered Ultra Instinct, Gogeta, and Broly should be comfortably ahead of that level of power, right?
Beerus fanboys are gonna be like: "SSG and SSB Goku from the ToP rivaled the GoDs and we know that ain't true" :lol:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri May 22, 2020 12:58 pm

If they somehow will rival Beerus in the future, I guess it’s okay for blue fusion to do it beforehand. It’s like saying they have the potential to rival Blue Vegetto from Zamas Arc as well.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 3:05 pm

It's V-jump. Nothing in the actual story. It isn't factual.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:44 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 am
Well if someone can use tactics to win in a fight, I believe that they can be the victor of a match up. Once Hit adapted to Dyspo, the latter couldn't do much. Why did he not power up? They probably kept it for the last second.

Hit did force Jiren numerous times. Albeit not nearly enough to deal damage to him, but Golden Freeza traded hits with empowered Dyspo and when both characters got tired (Dyspo didn't move and Freeza used energy for the field), Dyspo was on the losing footing against Ultimate Gohan.

Don't get me wrong, True Golden Freeza may have superior strength and possibly speed to Hit, but if Hit can overcome that with tactics he proba ly can be branded as >Freeza.

In the end, Freeza has not even experienced the Time Skip or any other of Hit's attacks. Dyspo and Jiren adapted to it since the one is a titan of power and the other one could exploit the situation with his speed.

But yes, Hit with the Time Cage, probably performed a feat that momentarily surpassed KK×20 Blue, although it didn't work well for him. Using that on Freeza would probably deliver positive result for the assassin.

Now if Freeza utilizes his telepathy and stasis moves effectively he may be able to overcome some time skips, but given how Hit has long ranged force waved punches, it won't last long.

Truly an interesting fight. For me it goes 65% in favor to Hit and 35% in favor to Freeza. ToP Freeza.
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 am
Well if someone can use tactics to win in a fight, I believe that they can be the victor of a match up. Once Hit adapted to Dyspo, the latter couldn't do much. Why did he not power up? They probably kept it for the last second.

Hit did force Jiren numerous times. Albeit not nearly enough to deal damage to him, but Golden Freeza traded hits with empowered Dyspo and when both characters got tired (Dyspo didn't move and Freeza used energy for the field), Dyspo was on the losing footing against Ultimate Gohan.

Don't get me wrong, True Golden Freeza may have superior strength and possibly speed to Hit, but if Hit can overcome that with tactics he proba ly can be branded as >Freeza.

In the end, Freeza has not even experienced the Time Skip or any other of Hit's attacks. Dyspo and Jiren adapted to it since the one is a titan of power and the other one could exploit the situation with his speed.

But yes, Hit with the Time Cage, probably performed a feat that momentarily surpassed KK×20 Blue, although it didn't work well for him. Using that on Freeza would probably deliver positive result for the assassin.

Now if Freeza utilizes his telepathy and stasis moves effectively he may be able to overcome some time skips, but given how Hit has long ranged force waved punches, it won't last long.

Truly an interesting fight. For me it goes 65% in favor to Hit and 35% in favor to Freeza. ToP Freeza.
Facts. Miracles is just in denial
Goku brushed off Jiren's "it's over" attack that sent Hit into the stands. Goku still had more than enough strength to make a Genki dama afterwards.

Goku's Kamehameha made Jiren do a panic dodge. Hit didn't have the power to fight Jiren like Goku, he only schemed him and failed badly.
Last edited by Miracles on Fri May 22, 2020 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:05 pm
It's V-jump. Nothing in the actual story. It isn't factual.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:44 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 am
Well if someone can use tactics to win in a fight, I believe that they can be the victor of a match up. Once Hit adapted to Dyspo, the latter couldn't do much. Why did he not power up? They probably kept it for the last second.

Hit did force Jiren numerous times. Albeit not nearly enough to deal damage to him, but Golden Freeza traded hits with empowered Dyspo and when both characters got tired (Dyspo didn't move and Freeza used energy for the field), Dyspo was on the losing footing against Ultimate Gohan.

Don't get me wrong, True Golden Freeza may have superior strength and possibly speed to Hit, but if Hit can overcome that with tactics he proba ly can be branded as >Freeza.

In the end, Freeza has not even experienced the Time Skip or any other of Hit's attacks. Dyspo and Jiren adapted to it since the one is a titan of power and the other one could exploit the situation with his speed.

But yes, Hit with the Time Cage, probably performed a feat that momentarily surpassed KK×20 Blue, although it didn't work well for him. Using that on Freeza would probably deliver positive result for the assassin.

Now if Freeza utilizes his telepathy and stasis moves effectively he may be able to overcome some time skips, but given how Hit has long ranged force waved punches, it won't last long.

Truly an interesting fight. For me it goes 65% in favor to Hit and 35% in favor to Freeza. ToP Freeza.
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:41 am
Well if someone can use tactics to win in a fight, I believe that they can be the victor of a match up. Once Hit adapted to Dyspo, the latter couldn't do much. Why did he not power up? They probably kept it for the last second.

Hit did force Jiren numerous times. Albeit not nearly enough to deal damage to him, but Golden Freeza traded hits with empowered Dyspo and when both characters got tired (Dyspo didn't move and Freeza used energy for the field), Dyspo was on the losing footing against Ultimate Gohan.

Don't get me wrong, True Golden Freeza may have superior strength and possibly speed to Hit, but if Hit can overcome that with tactics he proba ly can be branded as >Freeza.

In the end, Freeza has not even experienced the Time Skip or any other of Hit's attacks. Dyspo and Jiren adapted to it since the one is a titan of power and the other one could exploit the situation with his speed.

But yes, Hit with the Time Cage, probably performed a feat that momentarily surpassed KK×20 Blue, although it didn't work well for him. Using that on Freeza would probably deliver positive result for the assassin.

Now if Freeza utilizes his telepathy and stasis moves effectively he may be able to overcome some time skips, but given how Hit has long ranged force waved punches, it won't last long.

Truly an interesting fight. For me it goes 65% in favor to Hit and 35% in favor to Freeza. ToP Freeza.
Facts. Miracles is just in denial
Goku brushed off Jiren's "it's over" attack that sent Hit into the stands. Goku still had more than enough strength to make a genki dama.

Goku's Kamehameha made Jiren do a panic dodge. Hit didn't have the power to fight Jiren, he only schemed him and failed badly.
Well, even if that's the case, the original point which stands, is that Hit can defeat Freeza. Which I agree with. Even if Hit didn't reach KK× 20 Blue, he def reached that KK×10 barrier with technique. His normal strength should also be of the Blue tier by now. And being honest, Goku simply surprised Jiren with a Kamehameha, yet when he went ×20 KK Jiren didn't flinch and still threw him around. He didn't even notice actually.

So that's that. Freeza should lose to Hit.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:05 pm
It's V-jump. Nothing in the actual story. It isn't factual.
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:44 am



Facts. Miracles is just in denial
Goku brushed off Jiren's "it's over" attack that sent Hit into the stands. Goku still had more than enough strength to make a genki dama.

Goku's Kamehameha made Jiren do a panic dodge. Hit didn't have the power to fight Jiren, he only schemed him and failed badly.
Well, even if that's the case, the original point which stands, is that Hit can defeat Freeza. Which I agree with. Even if Hit didn't reach KK× 20 Blue, he def reached that KK×10 barrier with technique. His normal strength should also be of the Blue tier by now. And being honest, Goku simply surprised Jiren with a Kamehameha, yet when he went ×20 KK Jiren didn't flinch and still threw him around. He didn't even notice actually.

So that's that. Freeza should lose to Hit.
Freeza Blitzed Dyspo the same way Dyspo Blitzed Hit.

Freeza puts Hit on life support.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri May 22, 2020 5:40 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:05 pm
It's V-jump. Nothing in the actual story. It isn't factual.


Goku brushed off Jiren's "it's over" attack that sent Hit into the stands. Goku still had more than enough strength to make a genki dama.

Goku's Kamehameha made Jiren do a panic dodge. Hit didn't have the power to fight Jiren, he only schemed him and failed badly.
Well, even if that's the case, the original point which stands, is that Hit can defeat Freeza. Which I agree with. Even if Hit didn't reach KK× 20 Blue, he def reached that KK×10 barrier with technique. His normal strength should also be of the Blue tier by now. And being honest, Goku simply surprised Jiren with a Kamehameha, yet when he went ×20 KK Jiren didn't flinch and still threw him around. He didn't even notice actually.

So that's that. Freeza should lose to Hit.
Freeza Blitzed Dyspo the same way Dyspo Blitzed Hit.

Freeza puts Hit on life support.
Freeza NEVER blitzed Dsypo, stop making crap up.

And your Spirit Bomb argument fails because Spirit Bomb is made from othet people's energy, not the users.

And even before the ToP begin, Hit killed SSB Goku in their 1st rematch after the Black arc and matched a better SSB Goku in their 2nd one.

Hit stomps Freeza, its a fact.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Triggered Vegeta » Fri May 22, 2020 6:44 pm

So I'm guessing this is just for the manga while anime Beerus exceeds anime Vegito?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri May 22, 2020 7:20 pm

Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:44 pm
So I'm guessing this is just for the manga while anime Beerus exceeds anime Vegito?
But it mentions anime forms too?

In any case, Vegetto getting confirmed to rival Beerus sure is interesting. I always said Goku and Vegeta never got stronger in base during the ToP and they just got new more powerful forms to keep up. This new confirmation backs this up since Goku and Vegeta can't get dozens of times stronger after the Zamasu arc since that would make Gogeta several times stronger than Beerus if Vegetto rivals him.

Nappa said that the Saibaimen rivaled Raditz and the former are 80% of the latter so this is why I always had Vegetto at around 80% of Beerus.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 8:43 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:40 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 3:26 pm


Well, even if that's the case, the original point which stands, is that Hit can defeat Freeza. Which I agree with. Even if Hit didn't reach KK× 20 Blue, he def reached that KK×10 barrier with technique. His normal strength should also be of the Blue tier by now. And being honest, Goku simply surprised Jiren with a Kamehameha, yet when he went ×20 KK Jiren didn't flinch and still threw him around. He didn't even notice actually.

So that's that. Freeza should lose to Hit.
Freeza Blitzed Dyspo the same way Dyspo Blitzed Hit.

Freeza puts Hit on life support.
Freeza NEVER blitzed Dsypo, stop making crap up.
Go watch Golden Freeza sniping Dyspo and being stated to be even faster.
Go watch how Goku was able to use BlueKKX20 after taking all those attacks from Jiren in the Genki struggle.
Where Hit was getting put on the floor just blocking Jiren's blows and needed an inhaler after one eye attack.
Goku is superior to Hit and Freeza is superior to Hit who matched Blue Goku before the TOP and smoked Dyspo whom Hit couldn't.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri May 22, 2020 10:44 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:43 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:40 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 4:02 pm

Freeza Blitzed Dyspo the same way Dyspo Blitzed Hit.

Freeza puts Hit on life support.
Freeza NEVER blitzed Dsypo, stop making crap up.
Go watch Golden Freeza sniping Dyspo and being stated to be even faster.
Go watch how Goku was able to use BlueKKX20 after taking all those attacks from Jiren in the Genki struggle.
Where Hit was getting put on the floor just blocking Jiren's blows and needed an inhaler after one eye attack.
Goku is superior to Hit and Freeza is superior to Hit who matched Blue Goku before the TOP and smoked Dyspo whom Hit couldn't.
Source? Keep making BS up bro lmao.

Golden Freeza was getting slapped around by Dsypo before Gohan came and helped. He NEVER dominated Dsypo at all.

SSBKKx20 Goku was getting flicked around by Jiren all throughout ep.109, never getting in a single good hit.

Meanwhile, Hit was able to land several hits on the same Jiren.

Jiren casually glared away the Spirit Bomb, yet needed serious effort to break Hit's Time Cage.

ToP Hit > Early ToP SSBKKx10 Goku >> ToP Golden Freeza is a fact.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri May 22, 2020 10:54 pm

ZombieVito wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 7:20 pm
Triggered Vegeta wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:44 pm
So I'm guessing this is just for the manga while anime Beerus exceeds anime Vegito?
But it mentions anime forms too?

In any case, Vegetto getting confirmed to rival Beerus sure is interesting. I always said Goku and Vegeta never got stronger in base during the ToP and they just got new more powerful forms to keep up. This new confirmation backs this up since Goku and Vegeta can't get dozens of times stronger after the Zamasu arc since that would make Gogeta several times stronger than Beerus if Vegetto rivals him.

Nappa said that the Saibaimen rivaled Raditz and the former are 80% of the latter so this is why I always had Vegetto at around 80% of Beerus.
This does not back up any of the things you think it does.

Goku & Vegeta getting stronger throughout the ToP besides the new forms was outright stated and shown in the show itself (Vegeta's Pride Boost against GoD Toppo is the most obvious example). No amount of headcanon can deny this.

Second, if Black arc Vegito = Beerus, then current SSB Gogeta IS several times better than Beerus by scaling. Afterall, Broly was outright compared to Beerus in the movie & SSB Gogeta casually beat him down.

Third, your claims assume that Broly film Gogeta = Black arc Vegito, which is false and makes no sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 10:59 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:44 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:43 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 5:40 pm


Freeza NEVER blitzed Dsypo, stop making crap up.
Go watch Golden Freeza sniping Dyspo and being stated to be even faster.
Go watch how Goku was able to use BlueKKX20 after taking all those attacks from Jiren in the Genki struggle.
Where Hit was getting put on the floor just blocking Jiren's blows and needed an inhaler after one eye attack.
Goku is superior to Hit and Freeza is superior to Hit who matched Blue Goku before the TOP and smoked Dyspo whom Hit couldn't.
Source? Keep making BS up bro lmao.

Golden Freeza was getting slapped around by Dsypo before Gohan came and helped. He NEVER dominated Dsypo at all.

SSBKKx20 Goku was getting flicked around by Jiren all throughout ep.109, never getting in a single good hit.

Meanwhile, Hit was able to land several hits on the same Jiren.

Jiren casually glared away the Spirit Bomb, yet needed serious effort to break Hit's Time Cage.

ToP Hit > Early ToP SSBKKx10 Goku >> ToP Golden Freeza is a fact.
The show has a different scaling. You didn't see Golden Freeza smack up Dyspo? Forcing him to go "hyper speed" mode?
You didn't see where Goku ENDURED more than Hit and lasted longer where Hit was done after ONE eye glare?
Hit never touched Jiren either, only with his time cage and it failed miserably.
You can watch Super for yourself, the show matches with what I'm saying.

Sadala Elite
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri May 22, 2020 11:08 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:59 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:44 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 8:43 pm

Go watch Golden Freeza sniping Dyspo and being stated to be even faster.
Go watch how Goku was able to use BlueKKX20 after taking all those attacks from Jiren in the Genki struggle.
Where Hit was getting put on the floor just blocking Jiren's blows and needed an inhaler after one eye attack.
Goku is superior to Hit and Freeza is superior to Hit who matched Blue Goku before the TOP and smoked Dyspo whom Hit couldn't.
Source? Keep making BS up bro lmao.

Golden Freeza was getting slapped around by Dsypo before Gohan came and helped. He NEVER dominated Dsypo at all.

SSBKKx20 Goku was getting flicked around by Jiren all throughout ep.109, never getting in a single good hit.

Meanwhile, Hit was able to land several hits on the same Jiren.

Jiren casually glared away the Spirit Bomb, yet needed serious effort to break Hit's Time Cage.

ToP Hit > Early ToP SSBKKx10 Goku >> ToP Golden Freeza is a fact.
The show has a different scaling. You didn't see Golden Freeza smack up Dyspo? Forcing him to go "hyper speed" mode?
You didn't see where Goku ENDURED more than Hit and lasted longer where Hit was done after ONE eye glare?
Hit never touched Jiren either, only with his time cage and it failed miserably.
You can watch Super for yourself, the show matches with what I'm saying.
When did G.Freeza ever smack up Dsypo? Show some clips. Meanwhile, Hit actually did smack up Dsypo even before Goku stepped in lol.:
Image

Dsypo only went Hyper Speed mode once Gohan jumped in.

Jiren never glared Hit away at all like he did to Goku, he threw several punches at him and kept going.

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Miracles
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 pm

Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:08 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:59 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:44 pm


Source? Keep making BS up bro lmao.

Golden Freeza was getting slapped around by Dsypo before Gohan came and helped. He NEVER dominated Dsypo at all.

SSBKKx20 Goku was getting flicked around by Jiren all throughout ep.109, never getting in a single good hit.

Meanwhile, Hit was able to land several hits on the same Jiren.

Jiren casually glared away the Spirit Bomb, yet needed serious effort to break Hit's Time Cage.

ToP Hit > Early ToP SSBKKx10 Goku >> ToP Golden Freeza is a fact.
The show has a different scaling. You didn't see Golden Freeza smack up Dyspo? Forcing him to go "hyper speed" mode?
You didn't see where Goku ENDURED more than Hit and lasted longer where Hit was done after ONE eye glare?
Hit never touched Jiren either, only with his time cage and it failed miserably.
You can watch Super for yourself, the show matches with what I'm saying.
When did G.Freeza ever smack up Dsypo? Show some clips. Meanwhile, Hit actually did smack up Dsypo even before Goku stepped in lol.:
Image

Dsypo only went Hyper Speed mode once Gohan jumped in.

Jiren never glared Hit away at all like he did to Goku, he threw several punches at him and kept going.
You really need to watch the show again. Jiren glared at Hit and he was done. Then got sent into the stands by the finishing move.
Goku took Jiren's glare and the "it's over" finishing move and still had more than enough power to use Genki with BlueKKX20 in the struggle. Even had power to struggle with the Genki afterwards. Hit doesn't compare.
Gohan came in when Hyper Speed mode Dyspo had the advantage against Freeza. Freeza forced Dyspo to use Hyper speed mode since he was stronger and faster than the Dyspo that was beating up Hit.

Also, that image of Hit doing that to Dyspo is after Goku appeared. You got the narration all wrong.

Sadala Elite
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Sadala Elite » Fri May 22, 2020 11:19 pm

Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 pm
Sadala Elite wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 11:08 pm
Miracles wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:59 pm

The show has a different scaling. You didn't see Golden Freeza smack up Dyspo? Forcing him to go "hyper speed" mode?
You didn't see where Goku ENDURED more than Hit and lasted longer where Hit was done after ONE eye glare?
Hit never touched Jiren either, only with his time cage and it failed miserably.
You can watch Super for yourself, the show matches with what I'm saying.
When did G.Freeza ever smack up Dsypo? Show some clips. Meanwhile, Hit actually did smack up Dsypo even before Goku stepped in lol.:
Image

Dsypo only went Hyper Speed mode once Gohan jumped in.

Jiren never glared Hit away at all like he did to Goku, he threw several punches at him and kept going.
You really need to watch the show again. Jiren glared at Hit and he was done then got sent into the stands by the finishing move.
Goku took the glare and the "it's over" finishing move and still had more than enough power to use Genki with BlueKKX20 in the struggle and had power to fight even the genki afterwards.
Gohan came in when Hyper Speed mode Dyspo had the advantage against Freeza. Freeza forced Dyspo to use Hyper speed mode since he was stronger and faster than the Dyspo that was beating up Hit.

Also, that image of Hit doing that to Dyspo is because Goku came. You got the narration all wrong.
You keep repeating easily debunked BS and refuse to accept reality.

Jiren took out Hit was a massive energy blast (same as the one that knocked out Berserk Kale and SSB Vegeta), not a glare. And Hit actually managed to trade Hits with Jiren, unlike SSBKK Goku in 109.

Dyspo's Hyper Speed mode only came out after Gohan jumped in, and Freeza is not faster than Dsypo (that's partly why Gohan needed to jump in).

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