Miracles wrote: ↑
Sat May 23, 2020 12:03 am
Broly was indeed on Blue Gogeta's level. Look how much it took for him to be defeated.
Also, Broly could follow Blue Gogeta.
In DB, you have to be on par in order for these to be established.
I'm pretty sure that Gogeta Blue was several times stronger than Broly. BUT only Blue Gogeta could get the job done. God Gogeta would be an even match for Broly. This is without my headcanon. With my headcanon
FPSS Broly = 30×Blue ≈ God Gogeta
Blue Gogeta = 150× Blue ≈5×God Gogeta or FPSS Broly
It's pretty much like Omega Shenron and SS4 Gogeta. SS3 Gogeta wouldn't get the job done, but the gap between said form and the next is big enough to be a stomp.
Also durability plays a huge factor.
Miracles wrote: ↑
Fri May 22, 2020 11:13 pm
Sadala Elite wrote: ↑
Fri May 22, 2020 11:08 pm
Miracles wrote: ↑
Fri May 22, 2020 10:59 pm
The show has a different scaling. You didn't see Golden Freeza smack up Dyspo? Forcing him to go "hyper speed" mode?
You didn't see where Goku ENDURED more than Hit and lasted longer where Hit was done after ONE eye glare?
Hit never touched Jiren either, only with his time cage and it failed miserably.
You can watch Super for yourself, the show matches with what I'm saying.
When did G.Freeza ever smack up Dsypo? Show some clips. Meanwhile, Hit actually did smack up Dsypo even before Goku stepped in lol.:
Dsypo only went Hyper Speed mode once Gohan jumped in.
Jiren never glared Hit away at all like he did to Goku, he threw several punches at him and kept going.
You really need to watch the show again. Jiren glared at Hit and he was done. Then got sent into the stands by the finishing move.
Goku took Jiren's glare and the "it's over" finishing move and still had more than enough power to use Genki with BlueKKX20 in the struggle. Even had power to struggle with the Genki afterwards. Hit doesn't compare.
Gohan came in when Hyper Speed mode Dyspo had the advantage against Freeza. Freeza forced Dyspo to use Hyper speed mode since he was stronger and faster than the Dyspo that was beating up Hit.
Also, that image of Hit doing that to Dyspo is after Goku appeared. You got the narration all wrong.
Here, it's not that I disagree entirely, but there is a problem. We take into account how much time Hit and Goku survived against Jiren for what reason exactly?
Hit was never a brawler fighter. His durability has to be low. Freeza is a durable mf. But, Hit was able to easily overcome Dyspo after adapting to him. Freeza tanked the strikes but Hit never let Dyspo strike a vital spot either. Note how Dyspo only used his max speed in base only ONCE against Final Freeza.
Freeza goes Golden. His raw strength should be superior to Hit, his speed as well. I never denied this. Let's see. Naturally, he forces Dyspo to Ultra Light Speed Mode. His top speed. Freeza is actually being pushed back. And Dyspo has the advantage for the most part, if not for the whole fight.
Why does this matter? Once Hit figured out Dyspo he could trick him into Time Skips. At that point, Hit was the perfect counter for Dyspo, who used several times his top speed against him. Now, you may claim that he didn't force him into Light Speed Mode. You are correct. But since the episodes were months apart I can see the form not being in concept yet.
Then we must take into account that Hit also has 2 more super techniques that were not used against Dyspo. His parallel dimension and the Time Cage.
With the parallel dimension, even if Dyspo was at his best, Hit would utilize his clones to distract him and use an effective Time Skip against him. Catching him off guard with a Time Cage is game over. Only pure strength can break you free. Not speed. And definitely not Blue tier strength like Freeza's or Dyspo's.
We never saw what would happen if Gohan didn't come for the save, but I'm sure that Freeza, even by exploiting that moment, would still be at a disadvantage.
Gohan shrugged off Dyspo's attack as well. So that goes to tell that Gohan is reaching that Blue tier of strength. Albeit he would never win against True Golden Freeza. So about Dyspo, it's more that he strikes at a high speed, rather than the fact that he is strong. And that's why Gohan was keeping up with him in Freeza's death ray cage.
Back to an original point I made. You compared Goku shrugging off Jiren's attack while Hit didn't for what reason? We know that a KK×20 Blue Goku is faster and more durable than Hit will ever be. What should be in question is the effort Jiren put in both fights. With Goku he was moving around, due to the reason I stated above. Hit went for a different approach and even then Jiren rushed at him and screamed at times. And mind me, this is the same Jiren. Hit tanking punches that made Goku vomit is more impressive. And when Hit used the time cage, Jiren used a lot of effort to burst out. The Spirit Bomb may be a superior feat (although it may as well be of the same scale) but pushing it back is different than trying to break free of frozen time. A time within another dimension, since there is no time in the world of void.
So for a scale with the fighters:
Jiren ep 111-110 > Hit Time Cage ≈ Spirit Bomb > Blue KK×20 Blue > Hit > Freeza (serious vs Dyspo, unseen) ≈ Goku Blue (end of Top) > Dyspo >= Freeza (underestimating Dyspo) >= Blue Goku > Ultimate Gohan
This accounts for technique. Not just raw strength. With strategy Hit can defeat these guys behind him. Freeza tries to flex his superior strength, but Dyspo made a fool out of him. So I may say that Dyspo could have pushed Freeza off bounds, since he was underestimating Dyspo.
As for the Blue Goku = TGolden Freeza statement, it's not valid anymore since we are in the tournament rn. This Freeza compared in end of ToP Freeza. While the Blue Goku is the Goku of that time who used the KK.
But I will add end of ToP Goku just for a reference.