Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:25 pm

It's Akira Toriyama's never ending power increase narration.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:46 am

Question: should we really take into account the feats concerning the world of void? I know we have been through this again, but I still see them being extensively used.

It was presented as a dimension of nothingness (we can assume that for the 42 minutes the ToP lasted, no one aged at all, since there was no time) and Hit could use his time powers locally due to him creating pocket dimensions where time existed.

So 'shaking the world of void' is perhaps not impressive at all, but the writers ofc wouldnt stick to something like this, because they would have to inspire awe to the viewer for the strength of certain characters. If anything, Golden Freeza's glow filling a large part of the World of Void, or Vegeta's blast going into the nothingness for a huge distance (I mean is this even the 3D space we know off?) would probably be more impressive.

But ig it's just a plot hole, the same way Katchin is the strongest material, the GP made the stage by an even stronger material, yet the likes of Base-tier enemies were able to destroy it like rocks...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:48 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:46 am
(we can assume that for the 42 minutes the ToP lasted, no one aged at all, since there was no time)
who said that?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:06 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:48 am
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:46 am
(we can assume that for the 42 minutes the ToP lasted, no one aged at all, since there was no time)
who said that?
Logic dictates it? It is a hypothesis, but if time is not a variable in the world of void, the moment the characters enter it, it is like their time stops. Despite the fact that time passes in the rest of the Multiverse.

Then again, this creates a paradox since while within the world of void, there is a 'countdown'. But that may be some thing related to a higher dimensional plane.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:14 am

or, you know.
There is Time in the world of void.

We see time passing in the world of void. And we know time flows at the same speed: it was aired live in Universe-2 after all.

So, yeah. No idea where you got the notion there was no "time"

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:26 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:14 am
or, you know.
There is Time in the world of void.

We see time passing in the world of void. And we know time flows at the same speed: it was aired live in Universe-2 after all.

So, yeah. No idea where you got the notion there was no "time"
We wouldn't be able to watch the show if time didn't flow. That factor is out-of-universe related.

Or all in all, the Grand Priest is false. The world of void is not void. It's not nothingness.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:34 pm

I think the point is that place is located in the middle of nowhere. It’s not supposed to mean there is no space and time.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:50 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:26 am
We wouldn't be able to watch the show if time didn't flow. That factor is out-of-universe related.
I'm talking In-Universe.
In-Universe, they wee being seen live by the whole Universe-2

Or all in all, the Grand Priest is false. The world of void is not void. It's not nothingness.
Regardless it would have became a world of "something" in the instant anything were inside it. Like the characters.

You are just taking the whole "world of void" too wide. it was just meant to be a world without anything that could have been damaged by the fighters, so they could go all-out without risking to blast away a solar system or two.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:28 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 11:26 am
The world of void is not void. It's not nothingness.
A dimension being empty does not mean that spacetime stops existing there. Time isn't an object you remove in order to "create nothingness", just like how you wouldn't remove width or height or depth to "create nothingness". You're overthinking the World of Void and making it more complex than it needs to be when you ascribe it that kind of attribute. This is Dragon Ball we're talking about; simplicity is usually the key. It's just an alternate dimension that doesn't have anything in it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:37 pm

Thanks for the responses everyone. Glad to know what others think. Perhaps I was truly overthinking it. My intense debate research is to blame lol.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Fri Jun 05, 2020 3:50 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:46 am
Question: should we really take into account the feats concerning the world of void? I know we have been through this again, but I still see them being extensively used.

It was presented as a dimension of nothingness (we can assume that for the 42 minutes the ToP lasted, no one aged at all, since there was no time) and Hit could use his time powers locally due to him creating pocket dimensions where time existed.

So 'shaking the world of void' is perhaps not impressive at all, but the writers ofc wouldnt stick to something like this, because they would have to inspire awe to the viewer for the strength of certain characters. If anything, Golden Freeza's glow filling a large part of the World of Void, or Vegeta's blast going into the nothingness for a huge distance (I mean is this even the 3D space we know off?) would probably be more impressive.

But ig it's just a plot hole, the same way Katchin is the strongest material, the GP made the stage by an even stronger material, yet the likes of Base-tier enemies were able to destroy it like rocks...
No you shouldn't take them into account. DB's strength is always character comparison. Battles kept escalating in the TOP until the final two strongest of that arc in Goku and Jiren. No different from the Broly movie...Battles kept escalating until the two strongest ; Blue Gogeta Full power Broly.

It's always going to be that way.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:30 pm

How strong are Kefla, Broly and Toppo in relation to each other?

Is it fair to say that God of Destruction Toppo is weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Kefla? Is Super Saiyan Broly, not the Full Power Super Saiyan Broly weaker than both of them?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am

A post TOP Blue Vegeta couldn't even scratch SSJ Broly. Yet a TOP Blue Vegeta beats Toppo.

I would have to say Toppo is better than SSJ 2 Kefla. He actually became a god of destruction. A new dimension of power.

SSJ Broly is much stronger than all of them.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:45 am

Miracles wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am
A post TOP Blue Vegeta couldn't even scratch SSJ Broly. Yet a TOP Blue Vegeta beats Toppo.

I would have to say Toppo is better than SSJ 2 Kefla. He actually became a god of destruction. A new dimension of power.

SSJ Broly is much stronger than all of them.
I have my doubts for SS Broly. But FPSS is definitely above both.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:12 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:30 pm
How strong are Kefla, Broly and Toppo in relation to each other?

Is it fair to say that God of Destruction Toppo is weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Kefla? Is Super Saiyan Broly, not the Full Power Super Saiyan Broly weaker than both of them?
I don't think so, no. I would put both Broly and Toppo above Kefla. Hakaishin Toppo was the 1st one to reach official hakaishin level besides Jiren and Omen, Kefla is just a little lower.
If anything, Broly should be stronger than Toppo because he was stronger than the one who beat him up, but is tricky because
for an hour couldn't do what Toppo did in a second to Golden Freeza.

All in all, I'd say they are much stronger than Kefla and on a category of their own.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:39 pm

So yeah, no concept of time nor space. If anything, the Grand Priest (or the Omni Kings) created time and space around the arena in order for the mortal contestants even be able to exist, let alone breathe. And we know they can do this, since they can make bukujutsu impossible in the arena.
How strong are Kefla, Broly and Toppo in relation to each other?

Is it fair to say that God of Destruction Toppo is weaker than Super Saiyan 2 Kefla? Is Super Saiyan Broly, not the Full Power Super Saiyan Broly weaker than both of them?
SSj Kefla and SSj Broly seemed even to my eyes. They were both dominating a fight against Blue tier characters. SSj2 Kefla is even stronger than First Omen Goku, who was slowly gaining the upper hand on Suppressed!Jiren, tying with his second Omen. GoD Toppo was clearly stronger than Blue Evolution Vegeta at first, but not so much that he couldn't at least hit him once. That Vegeta was tied with SSBKKx20 Goku. So if anything, GoD Toppo should be, at the very least, at Suppressed!Jiren level, or somewhere above him. But going by performance, he did not seem above SSj2 Kefla.

Full Power Broly obviously surpasses all of the above (save perhaps Jiren) by a landslide by sheer virtue of being probably stronger than Beerus.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:07 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:45 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am
A post TOP Blue Vegeta couldn't even scratch SSJ Broly. Yet a TOP Blue Vegeta beats Toppo.

I would have to say Toppo is better than SSJ 2 Kefla. He actually became a god of destruction. A new dimension of power.

SSJ Broly is much stronger than all of them.
I have my doubts for SS Broly. But FPSS is definitely above both.
If Blue Vegeta beats Toppo in the TOP, while a stronger Blue Vegeta can't even scratch SSJ Broly, along with Blue Goku, then it's a no contest that SSJ Broly owns both.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:08 pm

Miracles wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:07 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:45 am
Miracles wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:01 am
A post TOP Blue Vegeta couldn't even scratch SSJ Broly. Yet a TOP Blue Vegeta beats Toppo.

I would have to say Toppo is better than SSJ 2 Kefla. He actually became a god of destruction. A new dimension of power.

SSJ Broly is much stronger than all of them.
I have my doubts for SS Broly. But FPSS is definitely above both.
If Blue Vegeta beats Toppo in the TOP, while a stronger Blue Vegeta can't even scratch SSJ Broly, along with Blue Goku, then it's a no contest that SSJ Broly owns both.
Ah yes. I agree on that. I thought that you were talking about GoD Mode Toppo and Blue Evolution Vegeta.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:17 pm

To be fair, Blue Vegeta tied with Toppo for most of the fight. He only won when he unlocked "Evolution" (thus blasting Toppo out of the ring). But yeah, the argument works.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Miracles » Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:18 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:08 pm
Miracles wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:07 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:45 am


I have my doubts for SS Broly. But FPSS is definitely above both.
If Blue Vegeta beats Toppo in the TOP, while a stronger Blue Vegeta can't even scratch SSJ Broly, along with Blue Goku, then it's a no contest that SSJ Broly owns both.
Ah yes. I agree on that. I thought that you were talking about GoD Mode Toppo and Blue Evolution Vegeta.
Them too. Why? Because the plot has Goku and Vegeta outclassed by Broly. So even if TOEI adapted the Broly movie; Blue Evolution Vegeta and Blue KK Kakarot would get pwned the same way by SSJ Broly. God Toppo lost to a weaker Blue evolution Vegeta, While Broly would dominate a stronger version.

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