Yeah, I totally agree that it is unreliable. This is something that has been inconsistent for the entire series. But using it, in conjunction with the statement by Piccolo, I think it means something as far as discerning what is trying to be portrayed here. They have, this premise where there is this emphasis on, how he is moving so fast that nobody can see him, but that Moro CAN see him. This obviously establishes that, not only is Goku on another level from everyone else right now, but that Moro is also on this other level. Whether this was intended to establish that these two are at a higher level than the two at the end of the previous manga arc, isn't entirely clear, but it seems to be the case in conjunction with Piccolo being unsure whether he's stronger than ToP UI. I wouldn't be making this argument if this was the only piece of evidence, because you're right, "X could see Y character and Z character couldn't" is inconsistent generally speaking. But it's not the only piece of evidence. So it seems to establish that:Koitsukai wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:53 pmThe thing is the speed feat is quite unrealible. We see that nobody has any problem following SSBE vs Moro(implied to be stronger than Sign), they even start wondering just what the hell is Vegeta doing when they notice he is not strong enough and they can't sense god ki. The final portion of UI vs Jiren was out of everybody's sight too, so those feats leads us nowhere, really.BagetaSama wrote: ↑Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:59 pmFrankly, I think it's pretty clear that Moro arc Full-Power UI Omen is DEFINITELY above true UI from the ToP. We see that, Goku while using UI Omen, is moving so fast that neither Gohan nor Piccolo can see his movements. The only person that could see his movements, was Moro. We also see that, in the ToP, Gohan and Piccolo can see the movements of everyone until Full-Power Jiren and true UI Goku fought each other. And we see that, once suppressed UI Omen Goku is fighting Moro, 18 asks Piccolo if Goku has "come back stronger than ever". Piccolo says he is not sure, and that he can't sense his Ki. Of course, Piccolo can still get a gauge of how strong Goku is from watching the fight, I mean, he hasn't been able to sense Goku's ki at full-power since Super essentially started. And when gauging it, Piccolo cannot discern whether suppressed Omen, or actual UI from the ToP, were stronger. This was when Goku was suppressed, and when he goes full-power, he seems to have gained a dramatic power-up. This would suggest his full-power Omen form is now far above his old UI form. And Vegeta is stated by Goku to have surpassed this. Of course, Full-Power Moro is stronger than either of them. Once he absorbs 73, his suppressed state that he uses until he fights true UI Goku, is far stronger than his previous full-power, given he can easily tank Omen Goku's attacks at FP. And then, he goes full-power against UI Goku. Therefore:Koitsukai wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:15 pmI don't think ToP UI is below current Sign.
We need more to go, but as of now the boost Goku just got is quite big, he went from failing to touch an uninterested Moro73 to one-shot his FP. This of course could be because Goku now has "more" UI than before(if that makes any sense), and should be addressed in the chapter 65, but if not, if the only difference is that now he can use it for longer and without losing steam, then during the ToP Goku got the same kind of boost he got last month.
Anyway, unless a explicit statement says this, I'm inclined to not believe ToP UI has been surpassed by an incomplete version of the technique.
Moro arc UI Goku>>Full-Power Moro 73>Suppressed Moro 73>Full-Power Moro>SSBE Vegeta post-Yardrat training>Moro arc Full-Power UI Omen Goku>Moro arc suppressed UI Omen Goku~ToP arc UI Goku>=max power Jiren.
The bolded part I don't know where is that from, ToP UI has not been mentioned yet in any capacity, not directly or indirectly.
I agree with Ponta's perspective, UI seems to be beyond the normal understanding of power, so unless directly stated I can't buy that an incomplete version surpasses a complete version. Also we have nothing to go by to compare UI and Sign; in this arc the gap has proven to be enormous, as of now nothing implies it wasn't the same during the ToP.
We'll just have to wait and see if they shed some light on this matter. My bet is we won't get anything more, not even a comparison between Moro and past enemies/Beerus.
SSBE Vegeta post-Yardrat>Full-Power Omen>Suppressed Omen~ToP UI
....He asked if Goku is stronger than ever. What exactly would the comparison be, when asked if he's at his strongest ever, IF NOT to when he was using Ultra Instinct in the ToP? It doesn't have to be mentioned. Why would we need it to be mentioned, we can use implications to deduce things. If Piccolo is assessing if he is at his strongest ever, he is comparing him to his previous strongest, which would be ToP UI, and Piccolo is unsure whether he's stronger or not.