Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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GodVegetto91
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:07 pm

Nevaeh wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:19 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:02 pm
According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.
Obviously

UI Goku is too. He's stronger than SSB Gogeta too. He was swapping hands with someone with angel power
I strongly doubt it until we get official confirmation ofcourse.

(Then I’m willing to change my mind.)

But for now, I’m going to assume that Gogeta Blue >>> Broly = Beerus = SSB Vegito (Future Trunks Arc) >>>>>> Halo Angel Merus Moro > MUI Goku (current) > Patrolman Merus Moro.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:28 pm

People fail to understand just how absurdly overpowered a Fusion truly is..

Remember that BASE Gogeta was already stronger than SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta.. As clearly seen by what little feats he showed during the movie (casually dodging and avoiding all of SSJ Broly’s raging ki blasts) he was even smiling, in the Manga, Base Vegito vaporised Merged Zamasu’s entire arm with a simple ki blast! In the Anime, Base Kefla completely overpowered and dominated SSG Goku, in Z Anime, Base Vegito totally and utterly STOMPED Buuhan.. Without even going mere SSJ1!

I think you get the point.. Base Fusions are always stronger than the strongest “accessed” forms of the individual fusees...

If Base Gogeta is even stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta.. Then imagine how powerful a SSJ Blue (with its humongously high multiplier over Base) Gogeta must be...

Even if we lowball it, SSJ Blue Gogeta would still be 40.000 times stronger than his Base form.. Which is already >>>> SSJ Blue Goku and SSJ Blue Vegeta..

So what makes any of you think that MUI Goku is over 40.000 times stronger than SSJ Blue Goku???!

I very strongly doubt that the multiplier for that state is THAT high.. And if I’m being really generous towards MUI fans and even HIGH BALL it... MUI shouldn’t ever be more than 1000x the strength of SSJ Blue..

Also, Broly was directly stated to be the absolute strongest enemy Goku and Co have ever fought (several times), forced Gogeta (a POST tournament of power Goku and Vegeta fusion) to go SSJ Blue! And was even directly compared to Lord Beerus himself!

Jiren wasn’t...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:41 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:07 pm
Nevaeh wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:19 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 1:02 pm
According to Goku, Moro is the toughest guy he ever met!

Goku: ”What a waste... I've never met such a tough guy like you before!”

Does this prove Morus/Mero >>>> Broly and Beerus?! ????

Let me know your thoughts.
Obviously

UI Goku is too. He's stronger than SSB Gogeta too. He was swapping hands with someone with angel power
I strongly doubt it until we get official confirmation ofcourse.

(Then I’m willing to change my mind.)

But for now, I’m going to assume that Gogeta Blue >>> Broly = Beerus = SSB Vegito (Future Trunks Arc) >>>>>> Halo Angel Merus Moro > MUI Goku (current) > Patrolman Merus Moro.
Doesn't get more confirmed than the manga itself. Broly fits into that "tough guy" description so if Moro is stronger than him, he's stronger than Beerus too since they were compared to each other and more or less equal in power

As for UI Goku, I don't see the argument for Gogeta. Goku trades blows with someone with angel power. That's way more impressive than anything Gogeta did

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Jack Bz » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:46 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:28 pm
People fail to understand just how absurdly overpowered a Fusion truly is..

Remember that BASE Gogeta was already stronger than SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta.. As clearly seen by what little feats he showed during the movie (casually dodging and avoiding all of SSJ Broly’s raging ki blasts) he was even smiling, in the Manga, Base Vegito vaporised Merged Zamasu’s entire arm with a simple ki blast! In the Anime, Base Kefla completely overpowered and dominated SSG Goku, in Z Anime, Base Vegito totally and utterly STOMPED Buuhan.. Without even going mere SSJ1!

I think you get the point.. Base Fusions are always stronger than the strongest “accessed” forms of the individual fusees...

If Base Gogeta is even stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta.. Then imagine how powerful a SSJ Blue (with its humongously high multiplier over Base) Gogeta must be...

Even if we lowball it, SSJ Blue Gogeta would still be 40.000 times stronger than his Base form.. Which is already >>>> SSJ Blue Goku and SSJ Blue Vegeta..

So what makes any of you think that MUI Goku is over 40.000 times stronger than SSJ Blue Goku???!

I very strongly doubt that the multiplier for that state is THAT high.. And if I’m being really generous towards MUI fans and even HIGH BALL it... MUI shouldn’t ever be more than 1000x the strength of SSJ Blue..

Also, Broly was directly stated to be the absolute strongest enemy Goku and Co have ever fought (several times), forced Gogeta (a POST tournament of power Goku and Vegeta fusion) to go SSJ Blue! And was even directly compared to Lord Beerus himself!

Jiren wasn’t...
Well...I'm glad that you have changed your mind about ToP SSBE Vegeta being stronger than Future Trunks arc Vegito Blue at least :P

I don't think strict multipliers are as relevant to super as they were before. You are saying it's crazy that Goku could have a 40,000x increase from super saiyan blue to UI, but since Ikari Broly was about as strong as a super saiyan blue, he would have had a 40,000x increase when he went full power super saiyan. That seems a lot crazier to me, personally, and I think you just have to leave these multipliers behind, because the story is definitely trying to show off UI Goku as being a whole new level of strength we haven't seen before, and Moro copying the powers of an angel to combat it as pretty direct confirmation if you ask me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:48 pm

Nevaeh wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:41 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:07 pm
Nevaeh wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:19 pm

Obviously

UI Goku is too. He's stronger than SSB Gogeta too. He was swapping hands with someone with angel power
I strongly doubt it until we get official confirmation ofcourse.

(Then I’m willing to change my mind.)

But for now, I’m going to assume that Gogeta Blue >>> Broly = Beerus = SSB Vegito (Future Trunks Arc) >>>>>> Halo Angel Merus Moro > MUI Goku (current) > Patrolman Merus Moro.
Doesn't get more confirmed than the manga itself. Broly fits into that "tough guy" description so if Moro is stronger than him, he's stronger than Beerus too since they were compared to each other and more or less equal in power

As for UI Goku, I don't see the argument for Gogeta. Goku trades blows with someone with angel power. That's way more impressive than anything Gogeta did
I’m just going to quote my earlier post here:
“The fool looks for God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:54 pm

Jack Bz wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:46 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:28 pm
People fail to understand just how absurdly overpowered a Fusion truly is..

Remember that BASE Gogeta was already stronger than SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta.. As clearly seen by what little feats he showed during the movie (casually dodging and avoiding all of SSJ Broly’s raging ki blasts) he was even smiling, in the Manga, Base Vegito vaporised Merged Zamasu’s entire arm with a simple ki blast! In the Anime, Base Kefla completely overpowered and dominated SSG Goku, in Z Anime, Base Vegito totally and utterly STOMPED Buuhan.. Without even going mere SSJ1!

I think you get the point.. Base Fusions are always stronger than the strongest “accessed” forms of the individual fusees...

If Base Gogeta is even stronger than Blue Goku and Vegeta.. Then imagine how powerful a SSJ Blue (with its humongously high multiplier over Base) Gogeta must be...

Even if we lowball it, SSJ Blue Gogeta would still be 40.000 times stronger than his Base form.. Which is already >>>> SSJ Blue Goku and SSJ Blue Vegeta..

So what makes any of you think that MUI Goku is over 40.000 times stronger than SSJ Blue Goku???!

I very strongly doubt that the multiplier for that state is THAT high.. And if I’m being really generous towards MUI fans and even HIGH BALL it... MUI shouldn’t ever be more than 1000x the strength of SSJ Blue..

Also, Broly was directly stated to be the absolute strongest enemy Goku and Co have ever fought (several times), forced Gogeta (a POST tournament of power Goku and Vegeta fusion) to go SSJ Blue! And was even directly compared to Lord Beerus himself!

Jiren wasn’t...
Well...I'm glad that you have changed your mind about ToP SSBE Vegeta being stronger than Future Trunks arc Vegito Blue at least :P

I don't think strict multipliers are as relevant to super as they were before. You are saying it's crazy that Goku could have a 40,000x increase from super saiyan blue to UI, but since Ikari Broly was about as strong as a super saiyan blue, he would have had a 40,000x increase when he went full power super saiyan. That seems a lot crazier to me, personally, and I think you just have to leave these multipliers behind, because the story is definitely trying to show off UI Goku as being a whole new level of strength we haven't seen before, and Moro copying the powers of an angel to combat it as pretty direct confirmation if you ask me.
We still haven’t gotten our “infamous” LOOOONG awaited rematch between Goku and Beerus yet.. You know the whole thing that got Super started in the first place!😉 Why would the rematch happen if Beerus was just one shot material for UI Goku..?

Ahh yes.. I DID change my mind about SSJ Blue Vegito’s level!🙂 Good catch!👌
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by FishermanJohnWest » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:14 am

Nevaeh wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:41 pm
GodVegetto91 wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:07 pm
Nevaeh wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:19 pm

Obviously

UI Goku is too. He's stronger than SSB Gogeta too. He was swapping hands with someone with angel power
I strongly doubt it until we get official confirmation ofcourse.

(Then I’m willing to change my mind.)

But for now, I’m going to assume that Gogeta Blue >>> Broly = Beerus = SSB Vegito (Future Trunks Arc) >>>>>> Halo Angel Merus Moro > MUI Goku (current) > Patrolman Merus Moro.
Doesn't get more confirmed than the manga itself. Broly fits into that "tough guy" description so if Moro is stronger than him, he's stronger than Beerus too since they were compared to each other and more or less equal in power

As for UI Goku, I don't see the argument for Gogeta. Goku trades blows with someone with angel power. That's way more impressive than anything Gogeta did
It could be true, however, they could be saying Moro was the toughest guy to deal with in terms of the battle itself, for example, Moro was far more tougher to deal with then Broly who they just needed to fuse and win against.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:36 am

I’m not buying the idea that Moro Merus or MUI Goku are already stronger than SSJ Blue Gogeta from the Broly Movie...

Unless ofcourse we get like a DIRECT comparison to him.. But that is unlikely to happen.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Dragon Wukong » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:14 am

So Goku pretty much confirmed that Moro, the pre-Merus copied Seven-Three absorbed Moro, is stronger than anyone else he's fought so far. That would likely include Beerus, Broly, and Jiren. Pretty interesting.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:32 am

Moro7-3 > everybody not called Whis or Goku
AngelMoro > everybody not called Whis or Goku
EarthMoro > everybody except Whis?
Current UI > everybody not called Whis or Earth Moro?


The only people not implied to be that strong are Regular Moro's FP, SSBE and Omen. Everything after that is just from another dimension.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Gogeta_Blue » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:40 am

It's worth noting that Moro copied Merus' UI and (presumably) regular power, but I'm not sure he got his Angel power. Merus was still fighting as a Galacic Patrolman when he was grabbed.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:59 am

Gogeta_Blue wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:40 am
It's worth noting that Moro copied Merus' UI and (presumably) regular power, but I'm not sure he got his Angel power. Merus was still fighting as a Galacic Patrolman when he was grabbed.
Whis said Moro's body couldn't sustain the power of an angel. I don't think he meant like a FP angel, just his UI.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by JewyB » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:14 pm

Based on the latest chapter i have it something like this:

Whis >>>> UI Beerus(hypothetical)>> Merus(based on what we've seen) >= Beerus > AngelMoro >= UI Goku > 73 Moro > Vegeta > Broly probably somewhere around here > Jiren > Zamasu etc etc.

The Merus to UI Goku section is incredibly close, like, hairs breadth, and (current)fusions probably lie somewhere between Whis and Merus. I'd probably put Zamasu arc Vegetto somewhere around the 73 Moro area, powerwise he'd be at or close to Beerus but AngelMoro has magic and Goku has UI so they can out tech him. Merged Zamasu around the same place.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Xeogran » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:44 pm

I can only hope Earth Moro gets a good showing next month and isn't used just as an exploding plot device. His reflexes are already good enough to catch MUI Goku off guard, but we need some actual damage.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:14 pm

People still believe Beerus > Jiren/Blue fusion/MUI Goku?

I swear people overhype how powerful he really is.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:56 pm

Props to Ponta, I think it was he(if not sorry to the guy that thought it up), because this chapter sort of proved something theorized pages ago. The fact that UI kinda can concentrate all of its power when hitting and when defending, maximizing its effectiveness, was seen in action when he "hardened" his chest to break Moro's wrist.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:30 pm

So from whats been made out, Moro finally has something to compare him to other characters.

Apparently Moro 7-3 would be above the likes of Broly and Jiren which would go to show how big a difference Goku's Ultra Instinct is when it's stable. He'd also seemingly be above Beerus but that can always change again.

Ultra Instinct Goku would seem to be on the same level as Merus? That is if Moro was equal to Merus.

Whis / Vados = Angel level

Ultra Instinct Goku / Moro / Merus = Trainee Angel level

Beerus / Broly / Jiren = God of Destruction level

Not sure how Vegeta fits in with that. I don't think he'd be as strong as Beerus though.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:38 pm

I think Vegeta at best is pretty close to Beerus/Broly/Jiren level.

It was interesting to see Goku being even or slightly above Morus73, I believe it implies Goku is superior to Merus, otherwise Morus73 would've defeated Goku.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:59 pm

How does Moro taking other characters power work again?

When Seven Three stole Piccolo and Gohan's power he became as powerful. So when Moro did the same with Vegeta shouldn't it have weakened him? When he stole Merus' abilities does he just get the techniques or his strength too?

Because why would his strength change to match Merus' and not Vegeta's?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:09 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:59 pm
How does Moro taking other characters power work again?

When Seven Three stole Piccolo and Gohan's power he became as powerful. So when Moro did the same with Vegeta shouldn't it have weakened him? When he stole Merus' abilities does he just get the techniques or his strength too?

Because why would his strength change to match Merus' and not Vegeta's?
Yeah, so, from what I gathered, the basic gimmick is that 7-3 copies the powers of the ones he touches - not the battle power itself, just the powers. So when he uses Gohan's masenko, it's just as powerful as the original. Moro's deal was the same, except he's a lot more powerful, power level wise. I would assume that, because of this, his copies are actually stronger than the originals.

When he copies Merus, he obtains his Ultra Instinct, and it's just as good as Merus', so it does not matter that Moro is weaker than the angel. His UI is just as good as Merus' own, which would put him on his level as far as using UI goes. It's likely his power level didn't change at all, in fact. Which is enough to match UI Goku, apparently, which makes sense - without the technique, he simply couldn't touch him even if he had the same or higher battle power.

But that's just my opinion. UI isn't really about battle power, so you can use it to wreck people even stronger than you, as long as you can keep them from actually touching you.

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