Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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Thani
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Thani » Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:06 am

It doesn't really matter what Beerus said, it's not like his "percentage" works like we know. For example, let's use Toriyama's original scale of 1 to 10.

SSG Goku is a 6, and Beerus used a 7 of his 10 to defeat him. The point is that, between 6 and 7 could be as big a margin as you want.

We can easily mess around and put the following

1 = SSj
2 = SSj2
3 = SSj3
4 = "SSj4"
5 = "SSj5"
6 = SSG
7 = SSB
8 = Beyond SSB
9 = Lower levels of GoDs
10 = Where Beerus, and other Gods, rest currently.

Beerus claiming 10% doesn't really matter at the end - he merely used more power against Vegeta than he used against Goku on King Kai's planet. Like, in his fury, Vegeta ascended from a 2 to a 4 on the scale, or at least a position in 3 greater than Goku, which made Beerus use more power to compensate, when before he was using less of that to completely dominate his opponents. And against Goku, he used power equivalent to a Super Saiyan Blue, by the scale, in order to keep the upper hand the whole time (even when he was actually hit, he took little to no damage, but still could be hit. to me, a SSG could indeed perform that well against a SSB).

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ankokudaishogun » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:21 am

Also, we know Beerus LIES a lot.

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Super Murjin
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Super Murjin » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:07 pm

Thani wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:06 am
It doesn't really matter what Beerus said, it's not like his "percentage" works like we know. For example, let's use Toriyama's original scale of 1 to 10.

SSG Goku is a 6, and Beerus used a 7 of his 10 to defeat him. The point is that, between 6 and 7 could be as big a margin as you want.

We can easily mess around and put the following

1 = SSj
2 = SSj2
3 = SSj3
4 = "SSj4"
5 = "SSj5"
6 = SSG
7 = SSB
8 = Beyond SSB
9 = Lower levels of GoDs
10 = Where Beerus, and other Gods, rest currently.

Beerus claiming 10% doesn't really matter at the end - he merely used more power against Vegeta than he used against Goku on King Kai's planet. Like, in his fury, Vegeta ascended from a 2 to a 4 on the scale, or at least a position in 3 greater than Goku, which made Beerus use more power to compensate, when before he was using less of that to completely dominate his opponents. And against Goku, he used power equivalent to a Super Saiyan Blue, by the scale, in order to keep the upper hand the whole time (even when he was actually hit, he took little to no damage, but still could be hit. to me, a SSG could indeed perform that well against a SSB).


I created a power level guide based off of this.
I like the way you think.

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Yuji
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Yuji » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:45 pm

shadd21 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:15 am
Is it possible that Beerus only used less than 10% of his power against SSG during the BoG arc?
In the anime? Considering SSBx20 Goku in the ToP arc is still no match for Beerus, then Beerus likely used even less than 5% of his power against SSG Goku retroactively. It's probably less than 1% considering how much stronger Goku got from BoG to the ToP and how much an improvement SSB seems to be over SSG in the anime (implied to be a 50x boost). If SSG Goku in the ToP is a 1, then

SSG Goku (BoG): <1 (it's lot less than 1, since Goku powers up a lot in the anime not only between arcs but in the arcs themselves, especially throughout the tournament of power)

SSG (ToP): 1
-- SSB: 50
-- KKx20: 1,000

Beerus: >1,000

It's possible Beerus may have gotten stronger from the BoG arc to the ToP but since we only ever see him napping, it is unlikely. As other uses pointed out, Beerus does say he used 10% against Vegeta, but he later claims he was using 100% against Goku. Retroactively, none of these statements make sense.

In the manga, we know pretty concretely that Beerus > CSSB Vegeta from the ToP arc, so we can scale Vegeta from BoG Goku. The gap between SSG and SSB isn't that big (2 to 10 times from the universe 6 arc scaling, I usually go with 2x). From that, making adjustments for training and completed Super Saiyan Blue's boost (I usually go with 1.5x SSB), a figure of around 10% seems apt without being completely humiliating.

If you assume (like the Moro arc implies) that Beerus is superior to Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku, then these percentages decrease even more.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:48 pm

shadd21 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:15 am
Is it possible that Beerus only used less than 10% of his power against SSG during the BoG arc?
He used less than 1%.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:32 am

ZombieVito wrote:
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:48 pm
shadd21 wrote:
Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:15 am
Is it possible that Beerus only used less than 10% of his power against SSG during the BoG arc?
He used less than 1%.
This. FAR less even!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:21 am

People have been downplaying rage Vegeta these past few years

He's easily above Super Vegetto imo

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:44 am

Nevaeh wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:21 am
People have been downplaying rage Vegeta these past few years

He's easily above Super Vegetto imo
Although stronger than SS3 Goku, we didn't get any other statement on him. Unlike with Failed Ritual SS, who was felt as the strongest entity ever (certainly above any Buu and probably Super Vegito) and we also got initial SSG being indirectly above any fusion (could even mean SS3 Vegito). SS2 Fury Vegeta is imo Buuhan tier.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:37 pm

By the time we reach EoZ, Beerus, vs Vegeta, would've been retconned to have used like 0,0000000001% of his power, and vs the rest of the GoDs he probably used his 40% lol

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:58 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:37 pm
By the time we reach EoZ, Beerus, vs Vegeta, would've been retconned to have used like 0,0000000001% of his power, and vs the rest of the GoDs he probably used his 40% lol
:crazy: :shock:
fax

It wasn't even Beerus in BoG, it was a weaker clone used to test Goku without Beerus waking up (he actually woke up between BoG and RoF)!!!! :o 8)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by shadd21 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:33 pm

It's heavily implied in the new chapter that the soon-to-be-born "Strongest Warrior in the Universe" foretold by the Oracle Fish is in fact...
Apparently, it's been stated in the chapter that he has untapped potential.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:41 pm

Let's see how well he is written to deserve that powerup and what kept him from training in the past to overthrow Freeza, kill a Great Ape and save his people. Mortal to God boosts don't happen in just one day right...? RIGHT...?! :shock:
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Gogeta SSJ Blue » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:50 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:41 pm
Let's see how well he is written to deserve that powerup and what kept him from training in the past to overthrow Freeza, kill a Great Ape and save his people. Mortal to God boosts don't happen in just one day right...? RIGHT...?! :shock:
If that would really be the case then this arc might be longer than Moro?

You have to count too with his training time... :lol:

As long as they don't follow the Golden Frieza 4 months only training for the first time in his life then everything is fine.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Nevaeh » Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:49 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:44 am
Nevaeh wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:21 am
People have been downplaying rage Vegeta these past few years

He's easily above Super Vegetto imo
Although stronger than SS3 Goku, we didn't get any other statement on him. Unlike with Failed Ritual SS, who was felt as the strongest entity ever (certainly above any Buu and probably Super Vegito) and we also got initial SSG being indirectly above any fusion (could even mean SS3 Vegito). SS2 Fury Vegeta is imo Buuhan tier.
Goku dismissed Vegetto an option against a suppressed Beerus yet he thought Rage Vegeta could make Beerus get serious

The implication is insane but it's there

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:36 am

spoilers for chapter 68
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:02 pm

I guess Moro couldn't use Merus' UI at its fullest, that's why they were even with Goku while Merus' was stronger than Goku's.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:21 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:02 pm
I guess Moro couldn't use Merus' UI at its fullest, that's why they were even with Goku while Merus' was stronger than Goku's.
Yeah I can stand behind that. Interesting how they explain 73's ability and then mention that Moro can't handle the powers of an angel, but couldn't mention that Moro could simply not copy so much power in the first place.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:36 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:37 pm
By the time we reach EoZ, Beerus, vs Vegeta, would've been retconned to have used like 0,0000000001% of his power, and vs the rest of the GoDs he probably used his 40% lol
Yes, remember that Beerus fought against a perfected SSJ Blue Vegeta!

After that,

1) He got SSBE (which in the anime at least is a 20x multiplier.)

2) He got Spirit Control on top of that and got MASSIVELY more powerful in all of his forms because of it.

3) And now he’s going to train under Beerus most likely, and either gets energy of destruction (GoD Mode) or something highly similair that equals Goku’s level of UI somewhat...

In simple terms, after this training from Beerus, Vegeta will be whole dimensions and orders of magnitude above the MSSJB Vegeta from before the ToP who fought Beerus..


Getting 3 powerups ABOVE that..

If Beerus-sama is STILL above him... Then it proves he was using less than 1% of his power against Mastered SSJ Blue Vegeta during the leading up to the ToP!
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:42 pm

shadd21 wrote:
Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:33 pm
It's heavily implied in the new chapter that the soon-to-be-born "Strongest Warrior in the Universe" foretold by the Oracle Fish is in fact...
Apparently, it's been stated in the chapter that he has untapped potential.
That makes ZERO sense. He’s just a mere Cereal. Why would his potential outdo a Saiyan...?
“The fool looks for God outside him. The wise understands that God is within him.”

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:47 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote:
Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:42 pm
That makes ZERO sense. He’s just a mere Cereal. Why would his potential outdo a Saiyan...?
Why does that make no sense? We haven't the slightest idea of what they're really capable of when the most remarkable figures among them push their own limits.

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