Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

‘Striking power’ is always boosted by UI, as speed equals strength afterall. But the Silver haired form comes with a genuine power boost besides UI aswell.

Speed doesn't equal power.

Yes it does. If you hit something with your car while driving at 240 km/h, you are guaranteed to do far more damage to the object/target than when you hit something while only driving at 35 km/h with your car.

It’s simple science.

Don’t overthink it.

It's not equal.

If so Burter would not be on par with Jeice/Recoome or Goku at 90,000 will not be faster than Ginyu who is at 120,000.

[TheSaiyanGod]

So, as far as scaling Granolah, now that there's more information about his level.

- Granolah clone (with an undefined part of the power of the true Granolah) is able to fight equally with MSSB + Ultra Instinct, resist a Kamehameha at point-blank range and still be fast enough to hit and knock out Goku out of the Blue form during all of this, remaining only with a few scratches.

- We haven't seen much about the real power of Granolah, but although it's been said that the UI's accuracy decreases over time, true Granolah was fast enough that neither Vegeta nor Goku were able to even track his approach, all the way from his ship to the battlefield, as well as being able to knock Goku out of the Perfected UI with one blow, bypassing his incredibly study body (capable of casually break Moro73's hand).

Others may have different opinions about a hypothetical fresh UI Goku and FP Granolah, but with what we've seen so far at least (maybe things will change in the next chapter), with him being such a deadly enemy and with this OHKO potential against a current UI Goku level, Granolah seems to be easily above other antagonists.

[GodVegetto91]

Speed doesn't equal power.

Yes it does. If you hit something with your car while driving at 240 km/h, you are guaranteed to do far more damage to the object/target than when you hit something while only driving at 35 km/h with your car.

It’s simple science.

Don’t overthink it.

It's not equal.

If so Burter would not be on par with Jeice/Recoome or Goku at 90,000 will not be faster than Ginyu who is at 120,000.

Burter and Dyspo are just inconsistently written. That’s all. You should’ve known this.

Granolah PROVES now in this chapter that just using UI increases Goku’s ‘striking power’ aswell. Exactly as I already deduced before that. So that’s all we need. I was proven right.

The faster a punch hits you, the more damage it will do. (= More power). I really don’t see how this is so hard to understand. It seems you’re only here to argue for the sake of arguing. Which is not a good quality at all.

[Koitsukai]

And Beerus is even stronger than Granola... damn, so he should be able to one-shot in his sleep the 80 ToP fighters at their full power.

No wonder Beerus never trained or gave a fuck about mastering UI.

Would he be on par with Whis if he were to master UI? what if he trained his ass off plus mastering UI? I mean, I think we are talking about the most gifted creature in the multiverse.

[Thani]

And Beerus is even stronger than Granola... damn, so he should be able to one-shot in his sleep the 80 ToP fighters at their full power.

No wonder Beerus never trained or gave a fuck about mastering UI.

Would he be on par with Whis if he were to master UI? what if he trained his ass off plus mastering UI? I mean, I think we are talking about the most gifted creature in the multiverse.

Yeah, it certainly feels that way. It's bullshit, but it certainly looks like that.

Regardless, Granolah waited for Goku's UI to drop in performance before attacking. Full power or not, Granolah could not see any openings on Perfected Ultra Instinct. So there's that.

He's easily above Moro, however, that much is evident.

[Berserker1921]

I don’t know how much more powerful true form granolah is to Moro, Broly, and Jiren.

However, the manga scaling is weird. In the manga Beerus is implied to be that much stronger than everyone else.

But in the anime, he was surpassed by Jiren and Goku.

Personally how I see it, just the mortals

FP Granolah
MUI Goku
Clone Granolah
Vegeta/Jiren/Moro
Broly

[GodVegetto91]

I don’t know how much more powerful true form granolah is to Moro, Broly, and Jiren.

However, the manga scaling is weird. In the manga Beerus is implied to be that much stronger than everyone else.

But in the anime, he was surpassed by Jiren and Goku.

Personally how I see it, just the mortals

FP Granolah
MUI Goku
Clone Granolah
Vegeta/Jiren/Moro
Broly

He was never surpassed by any mortal in the Anime.. That’s your own additional headcanon. Stop adding that. In no continuity ever, has Beerus been officially surpassed by a mortal thus far.

[Berserker1921]

I don’t know how much more powerful true form granolah is to Moro, Broly, and Jiren.

However, the manga scaling is weird. In the manga Beerus is implied to be that much stronger than everyone else.

But in the anime, he was surpassed by Jiren and Goku.

Personally how I see it, just the mortals

FP Granolah
MUI Goku
Clone Granolah
Vegeta/Jiren/Moro
Broly

He was never surpassed by any mortal in the Anime.. That’s your own additional headcanon. Stop adding that. In no continuity ever, has Beerus been officially surpassed by a mortal thus far.

The guide books say other wise

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... _jiren_vs/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upload ... 8e9f1.jpeg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7 ... 949ae6aa8c

And that was all before episode 130. So, yeah in the anime Jiren is stronger than Beerus.

Anime: Jiren (129)>Beerus and All GoDs.
Manga: Beerus>>Jiren.

[GodVegetto91]

I don’t know how much more powerful true form granolah is to Moro, Broly, and Jiren.

However, the manga scaling is weird. In the manga Beerus is implied to be that much stronger than everyone else.

But in the anime, he was surpassed by Jiren and Goku.

Personally how I see it, just the mortals

FP Granolah
MUI Goku
Clone Granolah
Vegeta/Jiren/Moro
Broly

He was never surpassed by any mortal in the Anime.. That’s your own additional headcanon. Stop adding that. In no continuity ever, has Beerus been officially surpassed by a mortal thus far.

The guide books say other wise

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... _jiren_vs/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upload ... 8e9f1.jpeg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7 ... 949ae6aa8c

And that was all before episode 130. So, yeah in the anime Jiren is stronger than Beerus.

Anime: Jiren (129)>Beerus and All GoDs.
Manga: Beerus>>Jiren.

The guidebooks aren’t canon and hold no authority over the in-universe content of Dragon Ball. The guidebooks are also wrong a lot of the time. In the actual Anime, UI Goku was never compared to Beerus.

[Berserker1921]

He was never surpassed by any mortal in the Anime.. That’s your own additional headcanon. Stop adding that. In no continuity ever, has Beerus been officially surpassed by a mortal thus far.

The guide books say other wise

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit ... _jiren_vs/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/upload ... 8e9f1.jpeg

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7 ... 949ae6aa8c

And that was all before episode 130. So, yeah in the anime Jiren is stronger than Beerus.

Anime: Jiren (129)>Beerus and All GoDs.
Manga: Beerus>>Jiren.

The guidebooks aren’t canon and hold no authority over the in-universe content of Dragon Ball. The guidebooks are also wrong a lot of the time. In the actual Anime, UI Goku was never compared to Beerus.
[/quote
You can’t Ignore these things I presented to you. In the anime both Goku and Jiren are stronger than Beerus. And toriyama said nothing against it either. Until the anime comes back these are the facts.

[Koitsukai]

The anime is clear (and deviated from the Manga).
In the manga, it's Quitela, but in the anime Vermouth is the one physically stronger than Beerus, and Jiren was stronger than them even before breaking his limits. And UI Goku is even above that.
Toppo's GoD mode is even considered hakaishin tier, and that power is irrelevant by episode 130.

The anime has a sense of closure that the Manga lacks in that arc. Probably why they went all out with how they scale to each other and had Goku surpassing everybody. Also, they clearly thought Beerus' superiority had to be close to coming to an end. They probably had no idea that 3 stories later, he'd be still the strongest. Even the Broly movie implied Beerus had been surpassed.

If the anime ever comes back, the Beerus and Vermouth stuff will be dropped of course. But the anime version of the ToP was written with Goku being stronger in mind.

[Hugo Boss]

Regardless of what the guide books say, after seeing Jiren fighting, Whis concludes he is the mortal who can’t be defeated by a God of Destruction, as the rumors said. He doesn’t explicitly compare Beerus and Jiren, but we can deduce Jiren is stronger based on his conclusion.

Anyway, Beerus disputed the idea of being incapable of beating said God of Destruction, so the rumor could be slightly off.

[Koitsukai]

And like I've said before, Beerus sitting on his ass all day long and still be above Granolah who can "one shot" UI Goku is beyond insane.

And he was interested in fighting Z SSG Goku lol

[GodVegetto91]

You can’t Ignore these things I presented to you. In the anime both Goku and Jiren are stronger than Beerus. And toriyama said nothing against it either. Until the anime comes back these are the facts.

You’re really looking for a debate… Aren’t you? Let me explain this one more time bud…

There is NO evidence AT ALL (in the Anime) that definitively proves that both UI Goku and Jiren are stronger than Lord Beerus...

And that’s final.

That’s just pure headcanon…

[DBZ Macky]

Do remember that Beerus's power being retconned isn't a new thing. Of course the excuse at the time was that Beerus was lying, but what's stopping the other guys in the story to lie to us like this for no apparent reason?

Spoiler:

Can't wait for Belmod to go "haha I was only lying about Jiren being stronger than us, that was just to psych Universe 7 out so they lose morale. Why were we sweating after seeing Goku transform? W-well we did already say Ultra Instinct's aura generated heat haha..."

Those who have been following the story carefully and are aware of the promotional material think that Beerus has been surpassed. Those who can feel the bullshit retcon approaching again know that Beerus will inevitably still end up being stronger for some reason.

[Koitsukai]

Objectively speaking, Beerus being stronger than Moro and UI seems like a stretch, not natural at all. But being stronger than Granola that hasn't event shown his FP and can already take out UI Goku seems more like a parody of itself.

I wouldn't be surprised if Beerus is even stronger than the antagonist of the upcoming movie, who should dwarf Granola.

The implications as of now is Beerus is the greatest prodigy the multiverse has ever seen.

[DBZ Macky]

The implications as of now is Beerus is the greatest prodigy the multiverse has ever seen.

Beerus embodies the main theme of Dragon Ball - "There's always someone stronger, except it's the same fucking guy every time"

[Berserker1921]

You can’t Ignore these things I presented to you. In the anime both Goku and Jiren are stronger than Beerus. And toriyama said nothing against it either. Until the anime comes back these are the facts.

You’re really looking for a debate… Aren’t you? Let me explain this one more time bud…

There is NO evidence AT ALL (in the Anime) that definitively proves that both UI Goku and Jiren are stronger than Lord Beerus...

And that’s final.

That’s just pure headcanon…

Lol! Wow! My god you are so easily upset. Right now for the anime JIREN and GOKU are STRONGER than BEERUS.

Yes! STRONGER. And I would love to debate. Instead of you having a freak out. My god! You get so angry and annoyed over nothing. If you think Beerus is god of gods in the anime. That’s cool. But that your OPINION. Honestly, until the anime comes back we will get our answers. Until then, deal with it :p

[Thani]

And like I've said before, Beerus sitting on his ass all day long and still be above Granolah who can "one shot" UI Goku is beyond insane.

To be fair, Granolah once again hit Goku in his vitals, but this time we can assume with his full power and after waiting for UI to falter.

So he basically won by exploiting an weakness rather than, say, hitting him in the arm and sending him flying unconscious, like Cell with Vegeta.

[Nevaeh]

It's obviously been retconned but how much power do ya'll presume Beerus was using in the GoD battle royale for a "weakling" like Belmod to be able to make him bleed?