ZombieVito wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:52 pmAs I said. Plot determines power. U6 Saiyans can solo Z out of the gate because that's what the plot wanted. 17 is Blue level beating up poachers because that's what the plot wanted. Nothing more, nothing less. People who try to make sense of something that the series or creator never care to do are honestly wasting their time.
Plot will always determine power.
That still doesn't mean there aren't occasions where power level makes sense, Raditz is one of them.
This very thread exists because people (want to) discuss power level in a consistent way, trying to make sense of it. Why would you discuss power level if for every occasion your response is "plot determines"? Seems to me you're wasting your time, and the fact that you seemingly can't see where power level makes sense, are you sure it's everyone else who doesn't understand Dragon Ball?
Also, that still doesn't mean we can't approach this from a
realistically point of view. From that angle, there's no way Cabba and Caulifla can be at Goku and Vegeta level without training with Vados. And since that hasn't happened yet, that makes Vegeta's statement problematic.
(I don't see myself wasting my time caring about the years in Dragon Ball. In fact, it's fun and a personal hobby to spot their mistakes. The "fun" part is coming here to expose their errors and trying to make sense of their actual intentions, but anyway).
Goku9001 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:48 amWhen we have both mediums suggest that Cabba was on par with Base Vegeta with an explicit power sequence denoting it with a beam sequence, it's difficult to ignore it. You would have to argue that you have a better understanding of powerscaling than Toriyama but that doesn't discredit that the statement was made and was apparently in his footnotes when he blueprinted Universe 6.
I didn't know the manga also has that statement. They all really want to put other characters on Goku and Vegeta level without working too much, huh. At least Toei gave them Super Saiyan 2, but with all that power, they are still stuck in Super Saiyan in the manga, right?
Goku9001 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:48 amIf you want a concrete example, Trunks' training methods are supposedly inferior to Goku and Vegeta's yet Trunks managed to match Super Saiyan 2 Goku with the equivalent form. This logically shouldn't have happened but it did.
My point so far has been just to say "this logically shouldn't have happened". I do acknowledge the "but it did" part, but like I said, there should be a limit to "plot demands". As soon as we start accepting everything without questioning anything, we would all be indeed wasting our time discussing it.
Lots of INGs! =D