Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

I bet if Dragon Ball Super had kept on airing that it wouldn't have take long before Mastered Ultra Instinct became nothing special and it was losing battles left and right. Same with Jiren.

I remember saying how strong they thought Super Saiyan Rose Black was when he debuted and he ain't worth diddly squat anymore.

[Kenneth La Torre]

To think that Jirens FP is going to be a match for MUI goku is just amazing. I can see why perfecting UI would get you above Hakaishin level, I just can’t see how jirens FP is also above that logically. Especially sense he didn’t train with any angel or god.

So I’m more impresed with a non UI user keeping up with a Mastered one.

[ZombieVito]

With Jiren looking to FULLY ALL-OUT in the next episode(you can tell this is true because HIS SHIRT IS GONE) and still giving Complete Ultra Instinct Goku something of a fight, I think we'll finally know where the two of them stand.

Of course, with the way all the Hakaishin stood up when Goku completed the Ultra Instinct, I think that's more than enough symbolic proof to show that Goku has attained a state that's beyond even them.

I have no doubts that they'll show that Jiren is above the Hakaishin for him to be able to stand up to Complete Ultra Instinct, but by how much is the real question.

This is actually a good point. All of them standing up does suggest they have been surpassed.

[dbgtFO]

With Jiren looking to FULLY ALL-OUT in the next episode(you can tell this is true because HIS SHIRT IS GONE) and still giving Complete Ultra Instinct Goku something of a fight, I think we'll finally know where the two of them stand.

Of course, with the way all the Hakaishin stood up when Goku completed the Ultra Instinct, I think that's more than enough symbolic proof to show that Goku has attained a state that's beyond even them.

I have no doubts that they'll show that Jiren is above the Hakaishin for him to be able to stand up to Complete Ultra Instinct, but by how much is the real question.

This is actually a good point. All of them standing up does suggest they have been surpassed.

That's what I got out of that scene as well.
For a moment I even thought they were going to bow down to their superior

[Kenneth La Torre]

With Jiren looking to FULLY ALL-OUT in the next episode(you can tell this is true because HIS SHIRT IS GONE) and still giving Complete Ultra Instinct Goku something of a fight, I think we'll finally know where the two of them stand.

Of course, with the way all the Hakaishin stood up when Goku completed the Ultra Instinct, I think that's more than enough symbolic proof to show that Goku has attained a state that's beyond even them.

I have no doubts that they'll show that Jiren is above the Hakaishin for him to be able to stand up to Complete Ultra Instinct, but by how much is the real question.

This is actually a good point. All of them standing up does suggest they have been surpassed.

That's what I got out of that scene as well.
For a moment I even thought they were going to bow down to their superior

That’s basically it. And the way beerus described goku in amazement suggest that he has heard how it’s supposed to look, but this is his first time seeing someone else besides the angels attain UI in perfection.

[Miracles]

To think that Jirens FP is going to be a match for MUI goku is just amazing. I can see why perfecting UI would get you above Hakaishin level, I just can’t see how jirens FP is also above that logically. Especially sense he didn’t train with any angel or god.

So I’m more impresed with a non UI user keeping up with a Mastered one.

Cause victory in Dragonball is deciding by the one with the larger Ki pool.

[Zamasu55]

Okay, so... I've made a personal list of all the Universes partecipating in the tournament. I ranked the fighters from strongest to weakest.

Universe 2:
1) Zarbuto, Rabanra, Zirloin (transformed)
2) Lovely Love, Love Ribrianne
- Super Ribrianne
- Ribrianne
3) Rozie
4) Kakunsa
5) Jimeze
6) Zarbuto, Rabanra, Zirloin
7) Hermila
Prum
9) Vikal.

I think this is legit tbh. The three remaining fighters were confirmed to be above the maidens by Helles. I placed Kakunsa above Jimeze, first because she gave 17 some trouble, and second because the Yardrat is nothing once you understand his IT. I don't think I have to explain the rest.

Universe 3:
1) Aniraza
2) Koichiarator
3) Maji Kayo
4) Katopesla (Ultimate Mode)
- Katopesla (Raging Battle Mode)
- Katopesla (Whirlwind Speed Mode)
- Katopesla
5) Viara
6) Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator
7) Narirama
Nigrisshi
9) The Preecho
10) Paparoni.

Well, it wasn't easy. As you can see, I placed Maji Kayo above everyone bar the fusions, and that is because he actually did something relevant: beating Dyspo up. After him, I think that Ketopesla deserves the spot, as he held his own for a bit against Ssj Vegeta and clearly had the advantage on 18. The weakest has to be Paparoni, who isn't even a fighter for me. He just controls the machines and fuses with them.

Universe 4:
1) Monna
2) Dercori
3) Ganos (transformed)
4) Nink
5) Ganos
6) Majora
7) Shosa
Gamisaras
9) Caway
10) Damon
11) Shantza.

God, this was so difficult. Literally half of their team got taken out by Roshi. Anyway, no doubt that Monna's the strongest fighter of U4. She was literally stomping on a Ssj. Dercori was pretty impressive too, as the Mafuuba was needed in order to beat her. Nink is 4th because, at least, he managed to hold off Goku.

Later I'm posting the remaining Universes, excluding U7. Too messy.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Surely, Gods of Destruction are now worthless.

So the gods just standing up, watching Mastered UI means they are inferior?
IIRC, the episode stated "reaching the state of the gods."

To think that Jirens FP is going to be a match for MUI goku is just amazing. I can see why perfecting UI would get you above Hakaishin level, I just can’t see how jirens FP is also above that logically. Especially sense he didn’t train with any angel or god.

So I’m more impresed with a non UI user keeping up with a Mastered one.

Cause victory in Dragonball is deciding by the one with the larger Ki pool.

Well, UI Instinct is built to have an advantage even if the opponent has a larger Ki pool, as long as the opponent isn’t that much stronger than you. I find jiren impressive because of that.

[TheDipDap1234]

Okay, so... I've made a personal list of all the Universes partecipating in the tournament. I ranked the fighters from strongest to weakest.

Universe 2:
1) Zarbuto, Rabanra, Zirloin (transformed)
2) Lovely Love, Love Ribrianne
- Super Ribrianne
- Ribrianne
3) Rozie
4) Kakunsa
5) Jimeze
6) Zarbuto, Rabanra, Zirloin
7) Hermila
Prum
9) Vikal.

I think this is legit tbh. The three remaining fighters were confirmed to be above the maidens by Helles. I placed Kakunsa above Jimeze, first because she gaved 17 some trouble, and second because the Yardrat is nothing once you understand his IT. I don't think I have to explain the rest.

Universe 3:
1) Aniraza
2) Koichiarator
3) Maji Kayo
4) Katopesla (Ultimate Mode)
- Katopesla (Raging Battle Mode)
- Katopesla (Whirlwind Speed Mode)
- Katopesla
5) Viara
6) Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator
7) Nigrisshi
Narirama
9) The Preecho
10) Paparoni.

Well, it wasn't easy. As you can see, I placed Maji Kayo above everyone bar the fusions, and that is because he actually did something relevant: beating Dyspo up. After him, I think that Ketopesla deserves the spot, as he held his own for a bit against Ssj Vegeta and clearly had the advantage on 18. The weakest has to be Paparoni, who isn't even a fighter for me. He just controls the machines and fuses with them.

Universe 4:
1) Monna
2) Dercori
3) Ganos (transformed)
4) Nink
5) Ganos
6) Majora
7) Shosa
Gamisaras
9) Caway
10) Damon
11) Shantza.

God, this was so difficult. Literally half of their team got taken out by Roshi. Anyway, no doubt that Monna's the strongest fighter of U4. She was literally stomping on a Ssj. Dercori was pretty impressive too, as the Mafuuba was needed in order to beat her. Nink is 4th because, at least, he managed to hold off Goku.

Later I'm posting the remaining Universes, excluding U7. Too messy.

Why is Nigrisshi above Narirama? Narirama managed to punch away some of the fighters in the beginning of the tournament, including base Cabba and Dyspo. Nigrisshi showed us nothing.

Katopesla only had the advantage on 18 because her leg was very injured at the moment which would explain why she couldn't move away. I wouldn't really say that's an indicator that Katopesla > 18 but that's just my opinion.

I agree with everything else.

[Zamasu55]

Okay, so... I've made a personal list of all the Universes partecipating in the tournament. I ranked the fighters from strongest to weakest.

Universe 2:
1) Zarbuto, Rabanra, Zirloin (transformed)
2) Lovely Love, Love Ribrianne
- Super Ribrianne
- Ribrianne
3) Rozie
4) Kakunsa
5) Jimeze
6) Zarbuto, Rabanra, Zirloin
7) Hermila
Prum
9) Vikal.

I think this is legit tbh. The three remaining fighters were confirmed to be above the maidens by Helles. I placed Kakunsa above Jimeze, first because she gaved 17 some trouble, and second because the Yardrat is nothing once you understand his IT. I don't think I have to explain the rest.

Universe 3:
1) Aniraza
2) Koichiarator
3) Maji Kayo
4) Katopesla (Ultimate Mode)
- Katopesla (Raging Battle Mode)
- Katopesla (Whirlwind Speed Mode)
- Katopesla
5) Viara
6) Koitsukai, Panchia, Bollarator
7) Nigrisshi
Narirama
9) The Preecho
10) Paparoni.

Well, it wasn't easy. As you can see, I placed Maji Kayo above everyone bar the fusions, and that is because he actually did something relevant: beating Dyspo up. After him, I think that Ketopesla deserves the spot, as he held his own for a bit against Ssj Vegeta and clearly had the advantage on 18. The weakest has to be Paparoni, who isn't even a fighter for me. He just controls the machines and fuses with them.

Universe 4:
1) Monna
2) Dercori
3) Ganos (transformed)
4) Nink
5) Ganos
6) Majora
7) Shosa
Gamisaras
9) Caway
10) Damon
11) Shantza.

God, this was so difficult. Literally half of their team got taken out by Roshi. Anyway, no doubt that Monna's the strongest fighter of U4. She was literally stomping on a Ssj. Dercori was pretty impressive too, as the Mafuuba was needed in order to beat her. Nink is 4th because, at least, he managed to hold off Goku.

Later I'm posting the remaining Universes, excluding U7. Too messy.

Why is Nigrisshi above Narirama? Narirama managed to punch away some of the fighters in the beginning of the tournament, including base Cabba and Dyspo. Nigrisshi showed us nothing.

Katopesla only had the advantage on 18 because her leg was very injured at the moment which would explain why she couldn't move away. I wouldn't really say that's an indicator that Katopesla > 18 but that's just my opinion.

I agree with everything else.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna switch Narirama and Nigrisshi.

[Miracles]

Well, UI Instinct is built to have an advantage even if the opponent has a larger Ki pool, as long as the opponent isn’t that much stronger than you. I find jiren impressive because of that.

Jiren is a grown man! I commend him as well, for competing against plot power.

[Zamasu55]

Universe 6:
1) Ssj2 Kefla
2) Hit
3) Ssj Kefla
- Kefla
4) True Legendary Ssj Kale
- Ssj Berserker Kale
5) Saonel, Pirina
6) Magetta
7) Ssj2 Caulifla
Ssj2 Cabba
9) Ssj Caulifla, Ssj Kale
10) Ssj Cabba
11) Frost
12) Botamo
13) Kale, Caulifla, Cabba
14) Dr. Rota.

Yep, I think Magetta is above U6's Ssj2's. I just don't think they can beat him, if not by insulting him. The rest was easy I suppose, Saonel and Pirina did good against Ultimate Gohan, but they surely aren't above Kale.

Universe 9:
1) Bergamo
2) Basil
3) Lavender
4) Hop
5) Chappil
6) Hyssop
7) Oregano
Comfrey
9) Roselle
10) Sorrel.

Not too much to say, really.

Universe 10.

1) Obuni
2) Murichim
3) Napapa
4) Rubalt
5) Methiop
6) Jirasen
7) Zium
Jilcol, Murisarm
9) Lilibeu

Murichim was nerfed, but I do think he's still the strongest guy after Obuni. The rest is just weak.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Well, UI Instinct is built to have an advantage even if the opponent has a larger Ki pool, as long as the opponent isn’t that much stronger than you. I find jiren impressive because of that.

Jiren is a grown man! I commend him as well, for competing against plot power.

But in the end, no matter how much you resist plot armor, you either draw, or lose to it.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Looks like Marcarita wasn't lying when she said Jiren was in a class of his own, he's clearly transcended the Hakaishin level entirely. Besides MUI Goku there's no one who can match him, wouldn't be surprised if his maximum power next episode is encroaching on Angel territory.

[HeroR]

We know that Vegeta can beat a God of Destruction and we know that UI Omen is inconceivably superior to that.

See, that's the thing though. Vegeta can beat a God of Destruction but Beerus has shown himself to be capable of defeating multiple GoDs in the Manga.
So it's very possible that:

Sidra, Rumsshi ,etc. < SSB&Beyond Vegeta < UI Omen Goku < Beerus <= The GoD that defeated Beerus < Jiren <= Silver UI Goku

But Beerus didn't defeat multiple Gods of Destruction, he dodged their attacks and got caught in several attacks like the bubble and got paralyzed by Rumsshi.

I mean, it's like fans only read the first part of that fight and not the second chapter.

[TheUltimateNinja]

The only thing the manga showed was that the GoDs are all in the same tier of power.

[Miracles]

But in the end, no matter how much you resist plot armor, you either draw, or lose to it.

A sad reality. I'm hoping for a twist, where Jiren does beat Goku, and U7 wins due to Freeza still being in the ring.

[Kenneth La Torre]

But in the end, no matter how much you resist plot armor, you either draw, or lose to it.

A sad reality. I'm hoping for a twist, where Jiren does beat Goku, and U7 wins due to Freeza still being in the ring.

A draw with U7 Winning by numbers is the most I can see. I don’t think freeza is there for no reason

[Kenneth La Torre]

The only thing the manga showed was that the GoDs are all in the same tier of power.

They are, people just think that beerus is superior because he dodge them... for like 3 panels. People seemed to have skipped chapter 29, where every god gets fucked up by each other, including beerus, who you can see has a swollen face do to getting punched by other gods.

[ssj3kakarot]

Well, UI Instinct is built to have an advantage even if the opponent has a larger Ki pool, as long as the opponent isn’t that much stronger than you. I find jiren impressive because of that.

Jiren is a grown man! I commend him as well, for competing against plot power.

The thing is, UI needed to occur to even compete against Jiren's plot power in the 1st place. The fact that we have such a weak back story on Jiren and how he got so strong is the real swanky thing. How many rock bottom circumstances have the Z-fighters been in, and they are just recently getting to these crazy power levels that we are witnessing. But they needed a "superman", type character that is such a John Cena, that something like Ultra Instinct becomes the only choice to go toe-to-toe.

Jirens power is definite plot power. I like the concept of U.I. However, I disklike how Goku achieved it. Someone else said it's kinda ridiculous that a form that is suppose to dodge and counter every threat is only achieved by getting your face punched in over and over.