Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Is there anything that implies that Jiren is weaker than Beerus?

Nope.

If anything, most of the information so far on Jiren implies he'd be above Beerus.

What information?

There's Jiren being undefeatable by his Hakaishin, whom may or may not be stronger than Beerus.

There's also Beerus not being implied to be significantly beyond the other Hakaishin; the level of Hakaishin as a whole has been treated as a general level rather than a wildly varying range.

[Nevaeh]

Is there anything that implies that Jiren is weaker than Beerus?

The closest we've gotten is that quote from Herms a while back about UI Goku possibly being stronger than Beerus. If that's the case then yes he is

Which means Belmod is fodder to Beerus and not superior like a lot people thought

[Kenneth La Torre]

Without bias, this chapter shows that jiren just as strong as beerus (so far). The dude effortlessly beats two CSSb opponents.

And, dyspo did say to goku the same thing beerus said to vegeta, that it will take 1,000,000 years before he can fight with jiren.

[SupremeKai25]

They made it pretty clear, that Zamasu was over-exerting himself beyond even his own immortality.

How does that work? You're either immortal or you aren't... there is no middle way.

Hmpf. I guess I should read that manga chapter again.

[Bullza]

Would Hit be more powerful in the anime or the manga?

Manga Hit seemed to have comparable power to Super Saiyan Blue Goku whereas Anime Hit was probably a weakling in comparison to be honest. Though Anime Hit did have the Cage of Time, a better ability than the Time Lag.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Would Hit be more powerful in the anime or the manga?

Manga Hit seemed to have comparable power to Super Saiyan Blue Goku whereas Anime Hit was probably a weakling in comparison to be honest. Though Anime Hit did have the Cage of Time, a better ability than the Time Lag.

Definitely anime.

Hit can phase into a personal dimension to avoid attacks, has an improved Time-Skip that affords him plenty of time to strike, the aforementioned Time Cage, and his Flash Fist Crush which is almost undetectable and extremely deadly if it hits vital weak points.

He's also plenty strong, being able to tangle with SSB Goku in a straight fight albeit still being inferior overall.

[Helios518]

Would Hit be more powerful in the anime or the manga?

Manga Hit seemed to have comparable power to Super Saiyan Blue Goku whereas Anime Hit was probably a weakling in comparison to be honest. Though Anime Hit did have the Cage of Time, a better ability than the Time Lag.

Keep in mind, Anime Hit improved enough to match (and surpass?) Champa Arc SSJBKKx10; being able to dish and take blows on that level. It was also stated that Hit improved in EP71/72 and even more by the USArc. So raw power Anime Hit isn't a slouch.

[Marlowe89]

Would Hit be more powerful in the anime or the manga?

Manga Hit seemed to have comparable power to Super Saiyan Blue Goku whereas Anime Hit was probably a weakling in comparison to be honest. Though Anime Hit did have the Cage of Time, a better ability than the Time Lag.

It depends. In terms of raw power, pushing the Kaioken confusion aside for a moment (I've already expressed my opinion on that one), if we observe the Tournament of Power and their rematch shortly before the US arc I believe they're honestly about the same in physical strength.

It's Hit's time manipulation abilities and other techniques that really seem to be the decisive factor here. Given the sheer repertoire of his techniques from the anime, I think it's probably safe to assume that version of him to have the edge in a fight. Time Cage alone seems to be way more overpowered than Time Lag.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Hit is on par with a CSSB Goku, who has power equal to merged zamasu (perhaps above now). So maybe manga hit has more raw power than anime hit.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Nice to see Toyo redeeming Hit after he shat on him in the U6 arc. Also, Anime Hit and Manga Hit are close in power. Anime Hit is SSBKKx20(?) level, and Manga Hit is MSSB (which is the manga version of SSBKK) level, if not slightly stronger. Which version of Hit is stronger depends on if SSBKKx20 is better than MSSB or vice versa.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Nice to see Toyo redeeming Hit after he shat on him in the U6 arc. Also, Anime Hit and Manga Hit are close in power. Anime Hit is SSBKKx20(?) level, and Manga Hit is MSSB (which is the manga version of SSBKK) level, if not slightly stronger. Which version of Hit is stronger depends on if SSBKKx20 is better than MSSB or vice versa.

I think they're the same. But if you think about it, it means hit can go toe to toe with merged zamasu... (not anime corrupted zamasu, for obvious reasons)

[Bullza]

I'd say Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is really just as strong as Super Saiyan Blue is in the anime. If anything it might be weaker as at least in the anime, Goku was able to move him from the spot.

Physically Manga Hit seems to probably be just as strong as Super Saiyan Blue. He wasn't in the anime but that version does have the greater abilities.

[Kenneth La Torre]

I'd say Mastered Super Saiyan Blue is really just as strong as Super Saiyan Blue is in the anime. If anything it might be weaker as at least in the anime, Goku was able to move him from the spot.

Physically Manga Hit seems to probably be just as strong as Super Saiyan Blue. He wasn't in the anime but that version does have the greater abilities.

Definitely disagree with completed ssb being as strong as just ssb in the anime. Its definitely a replacement of Kaioken. In this chapter is even treated as such (theres a scene in the manga that is identical to 109s revalation of goku already using kaioken x20).

[wolflonnie]

No, CSSB is clearly superior to SSB anime, because it can compete with Merged Zamasu's regular form. It should be as strong as SSBKKx10 or something like that.

[Bullza]

But Super Saiyan Blue Goku competed with Merged Zamasu in the anime. It was when he used Kaioken that he one shot him with ease.

Also Super Saiyan Blue Goku was roughly on par with Toppo in the anime and in the manga. Though he actually seemed to have the upper hand in the anime whereas he lost in the manga.

And also Super Saiyan Blue Goku was on par with Golden Frieza in the anime and that could have been true in the manga as well.

[SupremeKai25]

But Super Saiyan Blue Goku competed with Merged Zamasu in the anime.

Which was so silly. One moment Fused Zamasu crushed easily SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta and knocked them unconcious, five minutes later he was utterly overpowered by a broken SSB Goku. What a mess.

Also, SSB Goku had to literally break his limits and his arms to push back Fused Zamasu's Holy Wrath.

It was when he used Kaioken that he one shot him with ease.

He was able to do that because Fused Zamasu was distracted by the fact half his face had been disintegrated (an understandable concern), and he didn't know about the Kaioken technique so he wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared.

In short, Goku was very lucky. Let's see if Kaioken would have easily overpowered Fused Zamasu if Fused Zamasu had been expecting it.

[Helios518]

But Super Saiyan Blue Goku competed with Merged Zamasu in the anime.

Which was so silly. One moment Fused Zamasu crushed easily SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta and knocked them unconcious, five minutes later he was utterly overpowered by a broken SSB Goku. What a mess.

Also, SSB Goku had to literally break his limits and his arms to push back Fused Zamasu's Holy Wrath.

It was when he used Kaioken that he one shot him with ease.

He was able to do that because Fused Zamasu was distracted by the fact half his face had been disintegrated (an understandable concern), and he didn't know about the Kaioken technique so he wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared.

In short, Goku was very lucky. Let's see if Kaioken would have easily overpowered Fused Zamasu if Fused Zamasu had been expecting it.

Zamasu most definitely knew about the Kaio-ken technique. Zamasu literally ask Zuno for everything about Goku, and he also saw Goku’s fight with Hit. If Zamasu knows about the Shunkan Ido, then he’ll know Kaio-ken.

[SupremeKai25]

But Super Saiyan Blue Goku competed with Merged Zamasu in the anime.

Which was so silly. One moment Fused Zamasu crushed easily SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta and knocked them unconcious, five minutes later he was utterly overpowered by a broken SSB Goku. What a mess.

Also, SSB Goku had to literally break his limits and his arms to push back Fused Zamasu's Holy Wrath.

It was when he used Kaioken that he one shot him with ease.

He was able to do that because Fused Zamasu was distracted by the fact half his face had been disintegrated (an understandable concern), and he didn't know about the Kaioken technique so he wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared.

In short, Goku was very lucky. Let's see if Kaioken would have easily overpowered Fused Zamasu if Fused Zamasu had been expecting it.

Zamasu most definitely knew about the Kaio-ken technique. Zamasu literally ask Zuno for everything about Goku, and he also saw Goku’s fight with Hit.

Then why did Goku Black never use the Kaioken technique? It seems it would have been quite useful, particularly when he was struggling against Vegeta or Rage Trunks.

[Helios518]

Which was so silly. One moment Fused Zamasu crushed easily SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta and knocked them unconcious, five minutes later he was utterly overpowered by a broken SSB Goku. What a mess.

Also, SSB Goku had to literally break his limits and his arms to push back Fused Zamasu's Holy Wrath.



He was able to do that because Fused Zamasu was distracted by the fact half his face had been disintegrated (an understandable concern), and he didn't know about the Kaioken technique so he wasn't expecting that at all and wasn't prepared.

In short, Goku was very lucky. Let's see if Kaioken would have easily overpowered Fused Zamasu if Fused Zamasu had been expecting it.

Zamasu most definitely knew about the Kaio-ken technique. Zamasu literally ask Zuno for everything about Goku, and he also saw Goku’s fight with Hit.

Then why did Goku Black never use the Kaioken technique? It seems it would have been quite useful, particularly when he was struggling against Vegeta or Rage Trunks.

Possibly, because he was too busy trying to get to get used to Goku’s body instead of using a technique that could kill him when he can’t even use the body correctly. Also it’s a safer bet to take a few hits and get that broken zenkai than use the Kaio-ken like that.

[Helios518]

But Super Saiyan Blue Goku competed with Merged Zamasu in the anime. It was when he used Kaioken that he one shot him with ease.

Also Super Saiyan Blue Goku was roughly on par with Toppo in the anime and in the manga. Though he actually seemed to have the upper hand in the anime whereas he lost in the manga.

And also Super Saiyan Blue Goku was on par with Golden Frieza in the anime and that could have been true in the manga as well.

I do agree about Normal Merged Zamasu, he's a chump and is probably only around few times FT Arc SSJBs. Which is why two SSJB level characters was able to cancel out the Zamasu. Same goes for how Goku was able to overpower Zamasu with an arm breaking Kamehameha.