There is severe downplaying of (primarily) Goku Black and Fused Zamasu going on here.
Goku9001 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:14 pm
What you are claiming by suggesting that Goku Black is still stronger than them despite the Saiyans overpowering someone many times stronger makes absolutely no sense at all.
And this is where you're wrong, because you're ignoring a small yet at the same time key detail about Fused Zamasu.
He was jobbing for the vast majority of the fight.
As noted by Vegeta, Fused Zamasu was "toying with them" and "taking his sweet time". This is proven many times throughout the episode, where Fused Zamasu is blatantly and undeniably acting cocky and arrogant, not taking his opponents seriously. It was also explicitly noted by Vegeta that F. Zamasu was simply "sitting pretty", "grinning", while "toying" with them.
The
only time F. Zamasu was clearly shown pressured and putting some effort, was in the beam struggle against Goku. And not only 1) Goku had to use a life-risking move just to push back Zamasu's strongest attack, which caused his arms to literally break, but also 2) He lost the fight since at the end he was unable to even stand up, while F. Zamasu was flying and still overflowing with power.
Even during the Father-Son Galick Gun, F. Zamasu was clearly, and undeniably, underestimating the situation, not even unleashing a significant portion of his power. Why would he? He thought Trunks was fodder, he would only use a small fraction of his power to deal with the fodder. He was clearly surprised his attack was pushed back; and, angered, proceeded to oneshot Vegeta from SSB straight back to Base form, breaking his armour in the process.
So, TL;DR
Obviously I am not saying that Goku Black is stronger or even remotely comparable to Fused Zamasu. What I am saying and is proven, is that the [jobbing] Fused Zamasu, while having access to Black's vast power (due to Black being half of the Combined Zamasu), was obviously not using that power fully, since he was heavily suppressing himself and jobbing. And thus, the Saiyans' feats against him don't make them stronger than Black.
Thereby, the feats you found are not impressive. They are feats against an opponent who is jobbing and clearly suppressing himself. I guarantee you that if F. Zamasu used even half of his real power, then all 3 Saiyans would have been dead within 5 seconds of the episode.
So in short I have no problem accepting that the Saiyans have feats against F. Zamasu, but saying just that is completely erasing context. They have feats against a jobbing F. Zamasu, who was clearly and severely underestimating them.
So Black IS still stronger than them. He too would be able to harm a severely suppressed and jobbing F. Zamasu. Of course he gets erased by a being who is essentially himself plus another Zamasu,
but Fused Zamasu was not using his full power, not in the slightest.
What you're doing right now is ignoring the entire narrative surrounding those feats. A narrative in which Fused Zamasu is undeniably portrayed as the biggest jobber DBS has ever seen. He clearly had the power to erase all 3 of them, since those 3 were already weaklings to Black. He didn't do it because, as Vegeta stated, he wanted to toy with them. Because that's who Zamaus is as a character, an extremely arrogant and overconfident fighter, who constantly underestimates the ningens. Since Fused Zamasu is actually Zamasu^2, the arrogance and overconfidence were increased exponentially as well.
You would be right only and exclusively if Fused Zamasu was going all out, using at least a large portion of his power. But that was clearly not the case (until Vegito came in).
Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:31 pm
I think SSR Goku Black vs. SSB Goku (+ kaioken) would be a good match.
Gowasu saw the fight between Goku and Hit at the U6 Tournament, he knew Goku could use Kaioken, and he still stated that Goku Black was the "most powerful". I'd say it's pretty obvious Black beats him, likely through a combination of clones (created by the rift) plus his own unleashed power. This time Black would have to step in himself to beat him, instead of relying solely on his clones.