Definitely SSJB Gogeta. Broly should at least be around Jiren and UI Goku’s level and Gogeta stomped him good.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 7:19 pm Who is higher up the !added Super Saiyan Blue Gogeta from Broly or Ultra Instinct Goku from the ToP?
I think that’s a reference to how Broly’s power is aways growing and how he could’ve caught up to Gogeta, not saying he was already stronger.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 6:23 am Well I ask because some comment came out somewhere recently that if Broly could just remain calm and in control then he could probably have beaten Gogeta.
So if a calm and collected Broly could overcome Gogeta then what about Jiren and Goku?
.They don’t really look worried to me. Whis is just acknowledging it, and says it feels “unpleasant”; a comment more on how Zamasu’s Ki feels evil than it’s side. Beerus is also just stoically staring away while talking about Zamasu, while Jiren had him sweating bullets.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 7:31 pm Beerus and Whis never felt Vegetto or Fused Zamasu though.
They did feel Infinite Zamasu and were visibly worried. Whis even says he's got a feeling of unease that made his skin tingle which was a first in Super and hasn't been repeated since.
There’s also Kaioshin who was in the future and says Jiren’s Ki is unlike anything he’s ever sensed before, and Vegeta saying Jiren has the strongest Ki he’d ever felt in Episode 122.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. If anything Jiren showing power far superior to anyone else’s while suppressed is a even better way to hype it. Anat is the only one to actually reference the fact Jiren is suppressed, while Kaioshin and Beerus are specifically talking about Jiren’s power right now.Goku9001 wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 2:46 am Likewise, Anato also claimed that he could feel an even greater power from Jiren from what Jiren was giving off. I think it's clear that Kaioshin's statement is meant to be taken in conjunction with everyone else's. The writers wanted to make it clear that Jiren is the strongest threat they had ever encountered precisely because Jiren was concealing vast reservoir of power that no one was aware of. Beerus doesn't even doubt Whis' statement when Whis claims that Jiren "appears to be far from full strength" and because of that, Whis slowly begins to realize that Jiren may be the mortal who surpassed his own GoD.
Everything points towards Jiren being the strongest threat because of the unknown power he possess. I don't recall Whis and Beerus ever being concerned of Merged Zamasu but they have the right to be concerned about Jiren given that Beerus' own existence as well as their own universe would be doomed if Jiren wins. And that would also poorly reflect on Whis.
But assuming this was the case, do you honestly think Jiren needs power beyond Vegetto Blue to push back Kaioken x20 SSJB Goku's Genkidama? There's no way Goku would be capable of exhibiting power anywhere close to Vegetto Blue.
Jiren was initially trying to pus the Genki-Dama back with a glare alone. He wanted to use the least amount of visible effort possible, so he ended up showing more power in order to do that. I don’t see any issue with the Genki-Dama being that strong either, it is a pretty strong technique.
What do you make of Vegeta’s comment in episode 122?
As you just pointed out, Infinite Zamasu did start leaking into U7’s space-time, so Beerus and Whis caught up on his power and had reason to care. Yet neither is really worried and Whis just comments on being uncomfortable because of how Zamasu’s Ki feels while Beerus maintain his composure.SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑ Beerus literally said that he only cared about Zamasu as far as his timeline was concerned. When Present Zamasu was destroyed and the timeline was safe from him, Beerus literally said that his job was done and that the Zamasu of other timelines did not concern him. Why would he comment or care about Fused Zamasu, who wasn't in the Present timeline in the first place? Unlike Fused Zamasu, who did not threaten the Present timeline at the time, Jiren directly threatened Beerus and his universe.
You're comparing Beerus commenting about a dude who is literally powering up in front of him to Beerus ignoring someone who is in another timeline entirely. False equivalency.
Besides, when Zamasu became Infinite and took over the Future, Beerus and Whis did notice him. Beerus explicitly noted that what Zamasu did was having repercussions on other timelines and he was visibly worried, while Whis said that he was getting an uneasy feeling from Infinite Zamasu's energy.
If anything, it should be noted that Whis mentioned the above about Zamasu, while he never got any uneasy feeling from Jiren. The mere sensation of Infinite Zamasu's energy made Whis' skin tingle in frustration, whereas Jiren's energy never produced such an effect on him.
Anyway, you are also wrong when you say that Zamasu was never compared to a Hakaishin. Because Shin and Gowasu said that the mere existence of Fused Zamasu was beyond their comprehension (they would know about the Destroyers and what they're capable of, since they're co-workers) and Vegeta said that he never felt anything like Fused Zamasu, he was unlike any mortal or God he ever faced. And he fought with Beerus and sparred with Whis.
Whis explicitly says Zamasu’s Ki is “unpleasant”, he’s not talking about power here. Gowasu spends some time talking about how Zamasu’s emotions were affecting him, and characters in the series can identify when a Ki feels good or evil. Jiren is not evil or emotionally unstable, so there’s no reason his Ki would feel unpleasant.
That’s not a comparison to a Hakaishin though. Are you saying Kaioshin wouldn’t consider Beerus’ power beyond his understanding? Because that’s just a line to say someone is absurdly strong, not a line that indicates he’s never sensed someone this strong before.
Sparring with someone doesn’t mean you’ve sensed their power, at best Vegeta has a clue of their full powers. Otherwise that’d mean Jiren > Whis when Vegeta says he’s the strongest Ki he’s ever felt.