Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.

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PerhapsTheOtherOne
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:18 am

Hugo Boss wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:43 am
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:14 am The thing is, they're not even noted down in things like guidebooks or whatnot. They aren't represented in the show itself, nor the video games or other adaptations.

They're just stickers, stickers with meaningless numbers. We're better off just not using them and sticking to the actual stuff we see and hear; certainly avoids debating about their validity, since we can all agree that the show and manga come first. These stickers are lower priority than video game fluff as far as I'm concerned.
Just to clarify. I’m not claiming they take precedence over the stuff you are talking about. It’s just that powerscalling in general is meaningless and those stickers help to give a direction to some of controversial stuff. Everyone is entitled to use or not use them. For the sake of information, this is the place they can be brought up. And as the new sets come I will try to keep you updated and debate what could be discussed.
Fair enough, I just wanna make clear that they are absolutely not as valid a source to use to contextualize things as mediums like comments from video games, etc., and that if they're inconsistent with what's presented in the main product, they're at fault rather than the main series.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:32 pm

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:18 am if they're inconsistent with what's presented in the main product, they're at fault rather than the main series.
There are few examples of inconsistencies that PFM and Hero have already identified, but most of these stickers are compatible with the anime and the movies. I think part of this community is too picky on the inconsistencies and forgets how the whole stuff has been crafted. I usually don’t see much of this criticism on the main product, which in contrast has a lot of powerlevel inconsistencies.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:01 pm

GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:30 am
Sora Saiyan wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:59 am
GodVegetto91 wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:00 am
That’s quite a bold statement. How do you know he had no beard in the first manga chapter of this arc when he was battling the Dai-Kaioshin? You couldn’t see wether he had a beard or not because he was wearing that thing on his head.
Because you see his chin protruding from his hood in the battle with the Kaioshin and theres no beard attached, this is shown a few times, but there's one panel in particular that is from the side, and it's very clear that there's no beard. Later wee see that his beard is attached to his chin, coupled with the fact his beard is shrinking it seems almost certain it's gonna be gone.
Hmmmm i see it now. I thought maybe it was much closer to his throat, but the old Moro has hair on his chin indeed. Makes you wonder how the Kaioshins were even able to survive against this dude at max power. I guess it’s just bad writing then.
Yeah, how DID the Kaioshin survive against him at max power??

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:08 pm

Maybe the Grand Supreme Kai is as strong as Beerus or something.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Bullza wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:08 pm Maybe the Grand Supreme Kai is as strong as Beerus or something.
Which still brings up the question. Are there any more Grand Supreme Kais in the other universes, with power comparable to a God of Destruction?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:34 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:11 pm
Bullza wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:08 pm Maybe the Grand Supreme Kai is as strong as Beerus or something.
Which still brings up the question. Are there any more Grand Supreme Kais in the other universes, with power comparable to a God of Destruction?
According to Shin, if they brought all the Supreme Kais together, Zamasu would beat all them going by the manga. If we used the anime, Zamasu was within the power range of Super Saiyan 2 Goku who smacks around Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks in his base form and could one day surpassed Beerus according to Goku. There is also Future Zamasu who pushed back Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans: https://youtu.be/16iB7WD3R-Q?t=94

Also, no Supreme Kai has the title 'Grand Supreme Kai'. They're all just Supreme Kai.
Last edited by HeroR on Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:56 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:11 pm
Bullza wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:08 pm Maybe the Grand Supreme Kai is as strong as Beerus or something.
Which still brings up the question. Are there any more Grand Supreme Kais in the other universes, with power comparable to a God of Destruction?
Naturally, there shouldn't be. A Kai who rivals a Destroyer in terms of power would very much shatter the balance. The only exception was Zamasu, a fighting genius and natural prodigy whose power was already unprecedented amongst most Supreme Kais despite being a mere Kai apprentice. What's more, Goku stated that Zamasu one day could even rival Beerus if he kept training. To this day, Zamasu remains the Kai with the most potential by far, as he was the only Kai who went toe-to-toe with Saiyans and was even speculated to one day be able to rival a Destroyer. And this was just Present Zamasu, mind you! The Grand Supreme Kai has much to prove.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:00 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:56 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:11 pm
Bullza wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:08 pm Maybe the Grand Supreme Kai is as strong as Beerus or something.
Which still brings up the question. Are there any more Grand Supreme Kais in the other universes, with power comparable to a God of Destruction?
Naturally, there shouldn't be. A Kai who rivals a Destroyer in terms of power would very much shatter the balance. The only exception was Zamasu, a fighting genius and natural prodigy whose power was already unprecedented amongst most Supreme Kais despite being a mere Kai apprentice. What's more, Goku stated that Zamasu one day could even rival Beerus if he kept training. To this day, Zamasu remains the Kai with the most potential by far, as he was the only Kai who went toe-to-toe with Saiyans and was even speculated to one day be able to rival a Destroyer. And this was just Present Zamasu, mind you! The Grand Supreme Kai has much to prove.
Well, South Supreme Kai could fight and even pushed Kid Buu, meaning that he was at least as strong as Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:09 pm

HeroR wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:00 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:56 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Which still brings up the question. Are there any more Grand Supreme Kais in the other universes, with power comparable to a God of Destruction?
Naturally, there shouldn't be. A Kai who rivals a Destroyer in terms of power would very much shatter the balance. The only exception was Zamasu, a fighting genius and natural prodigy whose power was already unprecedented amongst most Supreme Kais despite being a mere Kai apprentice. What's more, Goku stated that Zamasu one day could even rival Beerus if he kept training. To this day, Zamasu remains the Kai with the most potential by far, as he was the only Kai who went toe-to-toe with Saiyans and was even speculated to one day be able to rival a Destroyer. And this was just Present Zamasu, mind you! The Grand Supreme Kai has much to prove.
Well, South Supreme Kai could fight and even pushed Kid Buu, meaning that he was at least as strong as Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
I wouldnt go that far. We never saw the fight in canon and in the anime he was one shotted by a kick.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Grand Marshal 1 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:09 pm

HeroR wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:00 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:56 pm
Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:11 pm

Which still brings up the question. Are there any more Grand Supreme Kais in the other universes, with power comparable to a God of Destruction?
Naturally, there shouldn't be. A Kai who rivals a Destroyer in terms of power would very much shatter the balance. The only exception was Zamasu, a fighting genius and natural prodigy whose power was already unprecedented amongst most Supreme Kais despite being a mere Kai apprentice. What's more, Goku stated that Zamasu one day could even rival Beerus if he kept training. To this day, Zamasu remains the Kai with the most potential by far, as he was the only Kai who went toe-to-toe with Saiyans and was even speculated to one day be able to rival a Destroyer. And this was just Present Zamasu, mind you! The Grand Supreme Kai has much to prove.
Well, South Supreme Kai could fight and even pushed Kid Buu, meaning that he was at least as strong as Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
I kinda agree on that. This is exactly why, I question Daikaioh's power. Yes, Zamasu was unique, even among Gods themselves, however, how come that the other Gods didn't bother with Daikaioh's actions in the past?

That said, when fighting off Moro (at full strength) the latter would have been astronomically more powerful than his current powered-up state in the Manga, as evidence from him getting younger the more power he absrorbed. Furthermore, against Goku and Vegeta, he said that in his time there were no beings like them (very powerful god-level warriors without being gods) but they never posed a threat to him. So why did the Grand Supreme Kai pose a threat to Moro?

It would only make sense for him to be vastly stronger than his Buu Saga presentation counterpart, who was slightly weaker (while extremely supressed from the fight with Moro) from a SSJ3 level South Supreme Kai.

As for the title of Grand Supreme Kai, of course it is a titular title. He is still a Supreme Kai. However, his abilities (and perhaps his power initially) pushed him to the rank. Besides, Elder Kai is much weaker than Shin (and perhaps Kibito), but he is still considered a Supreme Kai.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm

If he actually got off his ass and trained like Goku and Vegeta, do you guys think that Beerus could close the gap between him and Whis in the near future? We already know he has some form of Incomplete Ultra Instinct, so logically if he breaks his limits, he should get MUI which would be a gargantuan power boost on top of his standard power. In addition, since he seemingly hasn't trained in god knows how long, he should make big gains at first, similar to Gohan before the TOP, right?

I know that the gap between Beerus and Whis is insanely large, and that the Angels have techniques and powers that no one else has, but it seems like Beerus has a ton of untapped potential due to his lack of recent training.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:16 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:09 pm
HeroR wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:00 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:56 pm

Naturally, there shouldn't be. A Kai who rivals a Destroyer in terms of power would very much shatter the balance. The only exception was Zamasu, a fighting genius and natural prodigy whose power was already unprecedented amongst most Supreme Kais despite being a mere Kai apprentice. What's more, Goku stated that Zamasu one day could even rival Beerus if he kept training. To this day, Zamasu remains the Kai with the most potential by far, as he was the only Kai who went toe-to-toe with Saiyans and was even speculated to one day be able to rival a Destroyer. And this was just Present Zamasu, mind you! The Grand Supreme Kai has much to prove.
Well, South Supreme Kai could fight and even pushed Kid Buu, meaning that he was at least as strong as Buu Saga Super Saiyan 3 Goku.
I wouldnt go that far. We never saw the fight in canon and in the anime he was one shotted by a kick.
No he wasn’t.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRb7h7xqHA

He was hurt, but definitely not ‘one-shotted’. That and even in the manga, he was worthy of being absorbed instead of killed unlike the other Kais.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:17 pm

Mecha Zamasu, in the game version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes, is stronger than Hakaishin Toppo and Dyspo combined.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by HeroR » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:20 pm

Champa The Destroyer wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:12 pm If he actually got off his ass and trained like Goku and Vegeta, do you guys think that Beerus could close the gap between him and Whis in the near future? We already know he has some form of Incomplete Ultra Instinct, so logically if he breaks his limits, he should get MUI which would be a gargantuan power boost on top of his standard power. In addition, since he seemingly hasn't trained in god knows how long, he should make big gains at first, similar to Gohan before the TOP, right?

I know that the gap between Beerus and Whis is insanely large, and that the Angels have techniques and powers that no one else has, but it seems like Beerus has a ton of untapped potential due to his lack of recent training.
UI in of itself doesn’t increase one’s power. For Goku, he seemingly gets a transformation that gives him access to UI. Like Beerus in the manga got no physical change when he was using UI in the God of Destruction rumble.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:16 pm

Zamasu55 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:17 pm Mecha Zamasu, in the game version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes, is stronger than Hakaishin Toppo and Dyspo combined.
So he's God of Destruction+ level without even his Half Corrupted form?

Did they say that Mecha Zamasu was stronger than the regular Zamasu?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:50 pm

With regards to Moro and Grand Kaioshin, it was said that the latter gave up a lot of his godly power to stop Moro.

Could be that he had some kind of powers or magic that countered Moro millions of years ago, but his strength was still a little below Pure Buu. Has it ever been stated whether some of the Kaioshin being close to the level of Pure Buu from the original manga was in anyway a feat for them, or is it abnormal but still achievable by most Kaioshin?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by ruler9871 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:53 pm

How much stronger do you guys think Goku & Vegeta got from the start of the ToP to the Broly film (outside of new transformations)?
zarmack wrote:The whole "Dragonball is only supposed to be light and funny" mentality that exist in a lot of the fandom is in many ways even dumber than the "edgeload" side of the fandom. You know, the contrarians who think DB should be a Slice-of-Life series, the folks who worship Pre-Raditz Dragonball uncritically, the folks who downplay and often flat-out deny that Dragonball is an action series, the folks who try to push that false argument that none of the serious moments in the series were mean't to be taken seriously, etc.

Dragonball doesn't have a single tone. It has both silly and serious moments, both humor and drama, just like real life. The idea that a work of fiction should be only all-comedy or all-serious is unnatural and frankly, retarded.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:55 pm

Bullza wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:16 pm
Zamasu55 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:17 pm Mecha Zamasu, in the game version of Super Dragon Ball Heroes, is stronger than Hakaishin Toppo and Dyspo combined.
So he's God of Destruction+ level without even his Half Corrupted form?

Did they say that Mecha Zamasu was stronger than the regular Zamasu?
Yes, it was confirmed by Vegeta in the game.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:11 pm

Zamasu55 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:55 pm Yes, it was confirmed by Vegeta in the game.
Guess that's why Zamasu could sort of hold his own again Jiren then. So Zamasu fought Toppo and Dispo in the game? Is there a video?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

Post by Zamasu55 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:56 pm

Bullza wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:11 pm
Zamasu55 wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:55 pm Yes, it was confirmed by Vegeta in the game.
Guess that's why Zamasu could sort of hold his own again Jiren then. So Zamasu fought Toppo and Dispo in the game? Is there a video?
https://youtu.be/kAb1yo5ubvE

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