Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Sikat]

She was documenting production choices to ensure continuity and basic script adherence—not editing dialogue.

Very well. But we still have confirmation from the director himself that they were forced to edit dialogue and cut out a bunch of Toriyama’s story ideas just so it can fit into a reasonable time frame. For that reason alone we cannot know for sure what is Toei’s editing and what is Toriyama’s. Regardless of that fact, the “probably stronger than Beerus” line is nowhere to be found in DBS (the series), and is only a throwaway line in the movie produced by people who have no involvement in the DBS series anymore - and remain clueless as to where the story is heading.

[Cipher]

Very well. But we still have confirmation from the director himself that they were forced to edit dialogue and cut out a bunch of Toriyama’s story ideas just so it can fit into a reasonable time frame. For that reason alone we cannot know for sure what is Toei’s editing and what is Toriyama’s. Regardless of that fact, the “probably stronger than Beerus” line is nowhere to be found in DBS (the series), and is only a throwaway line in the movie produced by people who have no involvement in the DBS series anymore - and remain clueless as to where the story is heading.

Granted, we don't know exactly what every decision made during production was, and we know that at least some proposed scenes were cut (how far along they were into scripting I don't recall, but let's say for the sake of argument they were cuts/edits made after the dialogue was fully scripted).

But what you're proposing if I understand correctly is that Toriyama, despite being adamant Beerus was yet to be surpassed by anyone, might have:

1. Had no issue with implications during the manga Future Trunks arc that Vegetto was stronger
2. Had no issue with implications during the anime ToP arc that Jiren was stronger (via comparisons between Vermoud and Beerus; also implied though less explicit in the manga)
3. Had no issue with a line of dialogue implying Broly was stronger than Beerus at the end of a movie he was credited as the screenwriter for

despite having final review and approval privileges on all of them? (Let's allow for him not being able to review every TV script, but certainly he gets a full look at every manga storyboard for edits, and would have been consulted on the film script)

And that's more likely to you than either a walking back from earlier intentions, or there being some other aspect to Beerus' confidence to look into? I don't know; that's really hard to swallow.

Revisiting Toppo's dialogue about Jiren in Volume 6 (stronger "in terms of battle power (alone)"), which you pointed out last page, I can increasingly humor the idea that the techniques Beerus has been teaching Vegeta might be responsible for his confidence against Moro as well, overcoming any gaps in traditional battle power.

That would help make sense of all previous dialogue implications without strictly walking them back, but we'll see! They might have just walked back on it too, but I really don't see arguing that there wasn't a willingness, including on Toriyama's part, to imply that certain characters had surpassed Beerus at earlier points in Super.

[FishermanJohnWest]

The difference between SSB Goku and Ikari Broly was marginal at best (with a slight superiority from Goku), and Paragus confirms to Freeza that Broly has reached his limit. Freeza literally had to kill him to allow Broly to gain the upper hand. Again, there is no such thing as growing infinitely during the fight.

Spoiler:

Paragus thought Broly was done against Vegeta but still was rising in power, it just means Broly is at a disadvantage and has no more tricks up his sleeve that Paragus is aware of

And what you posted about the Novel doesn't prove otherwise because it refers to the moment when Broly was manifesting the power of Oozaru. So it no longer had anything to do with the strength of his base form (which had also reached its limit, according to Paragus, even Freeza was about to leave the planet because of that).

No

From Broly's body heat was being released. He was mustering up power. Due to the power Broly was releasing, the ice island had started to collapse further and melt. Paragus reached for his pouch, but to his horror there was nothing inside.

Spoiler:

"I-It's gone... The control remote is gone! This can't be!"

As Paragus was trying to make his way over there, he called for Broly: "Broly, I'm telling you to stop!"

But his father's voice could no longer reach Broly. Now having risen above the icy wreckage, Broly was amassing power as his body continued to tremble. Starting to fear for his life, Paragus called for Broly one last time: "You won' listen to your father!?"

Broly then lifts his head, and his eyes wander in the direction from which the voice came, searching for it. In that moment, Broly seemed to have regained his sanity. However, Vegeta had charged a ki blast and pointed it towards him, and with a cold stare: "What a waste!"

Just as Vegeta launched his ki blast, Goku's yell could be heard as well: "Don't do it, Vegeta!"

The destructive power of the energy blast launched by a Super Saiyan God was on a whole different scale. What used to be the massive body of ice was now completely destroyed as Broly vanished inside the expanding body of light. A massive explosion had occurred. Broly was slowly drowning to the bottom of the sea as his consciousness was fading. But this wasn't the end!

Just when you would've thought that the explosion had calmed down, Goku felt a unbelievable ki increasing explosively from the bottom of the sea. Goku rose up and went near Vegeta, who was looking in the direction of the ferociously swelling ki. The confident look he was sporting earlier could no longer be seen. Waves began forming loudly. The water having become muddy was not just because of the waves. Broly's roar was like a dreadful wave of ki that hit Goku and Vegeta. The seawater was starting to boil as the waves converged into a giant whirlpool. The vortex became increasingly stronger, with its epicenter sinking deeper. Its epicenter was flashing. It was comparable to the explosion cause by Vegeta's blast, maybe even bigger. At the other end of the seawater that was falling like torrential rain, Broly was floating.
Due to the pressure he was releasing, the seawater was retreating and forming a circular wall of water around him. Letting out a feline beast like roar, Broly was releasing all of his power, as well as sending shock waves all around.

Broly was mustering power and increasing before ever going into Ikari, so you got it wrong on the timing. His power up before Ikari has nothing to do with the great ape, not even mentioned once.

[FishermanJohnWest]

You need to have UI-level speeds to avoid Moro’s drain. Broly doesn’t have that. He couldn’t even catch two SSBs to stop them from getting away.
Also I don’t see Broly wrapping his head around any of Moro’s abilities like illusions or the planet lava/energy thing. So, like you said, Moro would just easily counter him and drain him of all he’s worth - becoming exponentially stronger in the process. It’s the same way Old Moro was capable of beating Goku/Vegeta at first despite being weaker than them.

Just for the record, it was UI sign that outspeed the energy absorption (that is, Moro tried to use it but Goku dodged it), while Perfected UI outright prevented Moro from using the technique due to the big strength difference between them, which is what I think it would happen with Broly and Prime Moro.

It was actually due to his speed, not his strength. Not to say he didn’t have the strength to back it up, but what Perfected UI Goku would do is immediately counter Moro whenever he would try and use his drain ability - in turn preventing him from ever using it.

When Old Moro absorbed Goku/Vegeta's energy, neither of them had any knowledge of the technique.

Neither does Broly, unless of course we’re giving him knowledge he doesn’t have for this hypothetical. Even if he knows all of Moro’s techniques, it not like he’s going to form a plan to counter it like Goku/Vegeta did. He’s going to just try and hit Moro, and then get confused as to why he’s growing weaker and why it was actually an illusion he attacked.

Having strength doesn’t make you a good fighter capable of going toe to toe with UI.
Maybe if Broly could actually control his power he can do what Jiren did, but he can’t. At least not as of now.

Fine, but we're talking about ToP UI Goku, who hasn't been able to use the form for so long. He wasn't able to defeat Jiren even when he had the upper hand, and Jiren was able to outlast him precisely because his strength was growing during the fight and Goku wasn't able to keep up due to his stamina. Against Broly, the scenario is very similar especially if we assume that he is stronger than Jiren

The struggle for P-UI Goku against Jiren was the fact that Jiren was able to keep up in battle, effectively causing a stalemate until one of them became exhausted. Broly, even if he hypothetically is stronger than Jiren, just doesn’t have the skill to go toe to toe ToP P-UI Goku.
The only possible way Broly could win is if ToP P-UI Goku’s attacks don’t deal any damage to him, which I don’t see happening.

Toriyama wrote the script.

The bolded part literally means he didn't shoot anything down. He left the door open for both interpretations, and then the story crapped all over it. Actually that's an interpretation, the Broly movie fits with Shin's statement.

Prior to Toyotarou’s comment there was no such thing as “multiple interpretations,” it was a factual statement by Shin. And like I said, this was prior to us seeing anything of Beerus’s power, with our only means of gauging him being his fight with SSG Goku in the very first arc. Which is why he said “at the moment.” Toyotarou obviously wanted to keep some surprises, because at the start of the very next arc we have Beerus one shotting a Fused Zamas-tier opponent.

Let's ignore the novel, guides, trailers that say Broly is the strongest just to suit Jiren and UI fans nonsense

Promotional and other non-canon material do not matter.

And, by the way, that same novel informs us Broly is literally Golden Freeza tier. You know, that guy who Whis states is nowhere near Jiren?

Frieza tier?

Golden Frieza's punches were able to dull Broly's movements a bit if landed properly, and if he were to throw blows with all of his might, Broly would go for avoiding them. However, that was all he could do.

”Gyaaaaaaaa!"

Frieza continued being a sandbag. However, being able to take Broly's attacks over and over again for over 30 minutes is nothing short of amazing. As expected, he's not called the Emperor of the universe for nothing.

no, Broly was massively above Frieza, but Frieza simply got insanely more powerful since the ToP which is said by the director himself. Frieza saw Jiren and UI, and says SSJ Broly is stronger. Lets go further, SSJ Broly made Goku and Vegeta give up entirely, and stomped blue fighters far better and quicker than Jiren, nor were they burnt out to where 17 outperformed them all.

Jiren would get thrashed, he ain't doing anything. And what does Jiren have better?

[ankokudaishogun]

Frieza simply got insanely more powerful since the ToP which is said by the director himself.

I must have missed that tidbit of info.
Truly the movie doesn't do a good job at portraying that, but it DOES makes sense: Freeza went from Namek to Golden in 4 months, it makes sense he'd grow a lot in power if he kept training post-ToP

He's still nowhere near Anime Jiren, but he might be catching up with Manga Jiren if we take Manga Jiren as "on the level of being abler to deal with 2 Blue Evolution-class fighters at the same time without real problems"

it's also worth to note that it's not likely Vegeta and Goku got SENSIBLY stronger than their ToP selves: at the very best they might have developed Blue enough they are now able to use the same power as Evolution and KK in simple Blue
Which still mark them weaker than either Jirens even if fighting together.

So, yeah. "Double Blue Evo"-level would the general power-range of SSBroly and Golden Freeza in the movie

[Sikat]

But what you're proposing if I understand correctly is that Toriyama, despite being adamant Beerus was yet to be surpassed by anyone, might have:

1. Had no issue with implications during the manga Future Trunks arc that Vegerot was stronger
2. Had no issue with implications during the anime ToP arc that Jiren was stronger (via comparisons between Belmod and Beerus; also implied though less explicit in the manga)
3. Had no issue with a line of dialogue implying Broly was stronger than Beerus at the end of a movie he was credited as the screenwriter for

1. As expressed in prior posts, that comment was never intended to be definitive as shown by Toyotarou shooting it down in an interview almost immediately after. Its main purpose was to downplay Beerus for his future fights (vs Vegeta, vs GoDs) where we actually get to see his power, which we haven’t really seen since BoG.
2. Like you yourself state, Toriyama doesn’t review everything the anime staff does.
3. Serious overestimation of Toriyama’s involvement. He wrote the screenplay (which Toei edited), he didn’t oversee the product. He wasn’t the director, wasn’t the producer, wasn’t the script supervisor, and didn’t even do the storyboard.

Revisiting Toppo's dialogue about Jiren in Volume 6 (stronger "in terms of battle power (alone)"), which you pointed out last page, I can increasingly humor the idea that the techniques Beerus has been teaching Vegeta might be responsible for his confidence against Moro as well, overcoming any gaps in traditional battle power.

First and foremost, Toppo’s line was officially translated to “combat skill” by Viz, and I feel that is the infinitely more accurate translation than randomly bringing back power levels. Although I’m sure both translations are applicable.

And I’ve seen this exact same argument before, (not trying to throw shade) usually by people unwilling to the fact that Beerus is still the strongest.

“Beerus couldn’t actually beat Moro, he just has some unheard of technique never mentioned in the series that would have allowed for him to magically defeat Moro”

But such a theory collapses the minute somebody actually reads the story.

As Whis states, the only way to defeat Moro without destroying the Earth is by shattering his crystal and releasing Merus’s power. That means the only way Beerus would have been able to defeat Planet-Moro would be in the same fashion as UI Goku, who failed to do it on his own.

That would help make sense of all previous dialogue implications without strictly walking them back

I think this whole issue of Beerus’s power stems from people mixing continuities, taking promotional material as fact, and trying to fit it all into one big story. That’s not going to work. It never will.

Toei has a very different vision of Dragon Ball Super than Toyotarou (and Toriyama). In Toei’s vision Botamo sends attacks to a different dimension (except when they retcon that), Hit improves his timeskip technique rapidly mid-battle (except when they drop that), and, most importantly, Beerus is an irrelevant comedic relief character who dresses up in a Monaka costume and loses to Base Goku (except if/when a future anime releases walking back on that).

Are you starting to see the issue here? Toei’s vision (which concluded and was succeeded by SDBH) doesn’t align with what Dragon Ball Super is - or at least with Toyotarou and Toriyama’s vision of it that we read every month. So if you’re going to try and critique the story do so with the story itself, not with a completely different vision of it.

[Cipher]

3. Serious overestimation of Toriyama’s involvement. He wrote the screenplay (which Toei edited), he didn’t oversee the product. He wasn’t the director, wasn’t the producer, wasn’t the script supervisor, and didn’t even do the storyboard.

There would be a more compelling case to be made for the idea that Toriyama never humored Beerus being surpassed if the element that implied that were a visual one instead, say, a line of dialogue--the thing he is credited for.

First and foremost, Toppo’s line was officially translated to “combat skill” by Viz, and I feel that is the infinitely more accurate translation than randomly bringing back power levels. Although I’m sure both translations are applicable.

And I’ve seen this exact same argument before, (not trying to throw shade) usually by people unwilling to the fact that Beerus is still the strongest.

The phrase used by Toppo in Japanese is 戦闘力 (sentoryoku)--the exact same one used for battle/combat power for the Saiyans' and Freeza's numerical scouter readings. Dragon Ball has had a habit of using it since in other non-numerical strength discussions as well. For example, #18 comments on her "sentoryoku" eclipsing Kuririn and co.'s when offering to go fight in Resurrection "F".

The phrase also has precedence outside of DB as a catch-all for what it literally reads as--combat skill or ability, strength inclusive--but in both broader culture in Japan and in DB in particular, DB's high-profile use of it as the phrase used for quantifiable strength has far eclipsed that sort of general definition. It's just that the phrase used for the numerical point system in Japanese isn't quite the stand-alone, DB-specific proper noun we might think of Battle Power/Power Level being in English (though it's nearly gotten to that point through DB's pop-culture presence).

That general definition does make Viz's translation of Toppo's line a perfectly acceptable one, and maybe even a safe call as a way of hedging bets, but Toyotaro would no doubt be aware of the implications any DB fan would take from the use of that particular phrase (again, even Toriyama has brought it out for unambiguous "strength" meanings well after the Saiyan and Freeza arcs; any fandom searches in Japanese will also always point to it being understood to be "strength" in DB contexts); I don't think it's meant to read ambiguously. Toppo's saying Jiren is stronger than Vermoud, but with the interesting caveat of "in terms of fighting strength alone," which perhaps was an addition to allow flexibility later--maybe exactly the kind we're seeing with Beerus passing along techniques that seem to help him maintain an edge.

Or Beerus is just flatly stronger now! Who knows! But I think you have to ignore previous dialogue across every version of Super to an almost disingenuous extent to make the argument for that always having been intended to be the case, or for there to be no wiggle room built in if they still want to align everything with those previous implications.

“Beerus couldn’t actually beat Moro, he just has some unheard of technique never mentioned in the series that would have allowed for him to magically defeat Moro”

But such a theory collapses the minute somebody actually reads the story.

As Whis states, the only way to defeat Moro without destroying the Earth is by shattering his crystal and releasing Merus’s power. That means the only way Beerus would have been able to defeat Planet-Moro would be in the same fashion as UI Goku, who failed to do it on his own.

This is why I've consistently handled Beerus with a big "???" at this point instead of being at all firm on placing him lower. Surely, yes, the implications of the Moro scene are that Beerus could somehow easily access and destroy the crystal, which takes some raw combat and power performance that Goku is struggling to muster at that point in UI.

Unless it wouldn't have, and he had some other GoD nonsense he could do. It doesn't read that way in the moment, but there certainly seems to at least be the potential to make that the case via his and Vegeta's Destruction techniques in the Granolah arc. They might not take it, but if they want to, the door remains wide open for them to line that scene up with implications about having been surpassed in strength/traditional fighting skill (which were absolutely made, by all three of Toei, Toyotaro, and Toriyama).

I think this whole issue of Beerus’s power stems from people mixing continuities, taking promotional material as fact, and trying to fit it all into one big story. That’s not going to work. It never will.

If you take nothing but the manga and the Toriyama films alone, there's more than enough to have made Beerus' confidence at the end of the Moro arc a headscratcher, which is indeed why many sworn manga-only fans were left scratching their heads when it happened. You have to go out of your way to ignore dialogue and other implications throughout to make the case that Beerus had never been implied to be surpassed prior--including his own dialogue about UI, and multiple lines of dialogue just ... outright stating that he had probably been surpassed.

I don't know what else you could possibly want for convincing.

Are you starting to see the issue here? Toei’s vision (which concluded and was succeeded by SDBH) doesn’t align with what Dragon Ball Super is - or at least with Toyotarou and Toriyama’s vision of it that we read every month. So if you’re going to try and critique the story do so with the story itself, not with a completely different vision of it.

I'm not sure how you can say this while doubling down on asking people to ignore Toyotaro and Toriyama's literal dialogue though. (You seem dead set on Toriyama not having written the line in the Broly film, but that's based on seemingly nothing but the will for it to not have come from him despite all credit otherwise; if we can't give that to him, we might as well make the argument that every line in the manga could have been an editorial tweak.)

If you want to understand where people are coming from with an eye toward other explanations for Beerus, or the assumption that at minimum there was a pivot away from the idea that he was surpassed, I would suggest viewing the story itself, rather than a what-if case of uncredited script tweaks in a film or dialogue dismissal in-series. Right now you're saying people can't factor in the anime (for what it might be worth as a hint of bigger picture intentions as comparison), they can't factor in Toyotaro's dialogue because he builds in maybes, and they can't factor in Toriyama's dialogue because maybe it isn't actually his. Seemingly, the only thing they can factor into consideration is whatever aligns them most solidly with your locked-in reading of Beerus.

What's left for making arguments in good faith? Do I get to suggest that the Moro-Beerus scene came from V-Jump editor Uchiyama as a way to hype of fans, just because we have no evidence that it didn't?

[ankokudaishogun]

I think the problem comes from Beerus being the "end-game" enemy, thus "unsurpassable", while ALSO giving a reasonable degree of credibility as threats to previous enemies.

If you keep going "this guy is a chump compared to Beerus" multiple times it kills the hype.

So they had to find workarounds, first in the form of "Maybe"s later in the form of "tricks and abilities outside pure battle power"(which was suggested since his admission of being unable to Hakai Zamasu but still having ways to deal with immortals)

In the end the progression is basically:
1. Complete Blue\KK=force Beerus to be serious and not just play
2. Vegetto Blue\Manga Jiren\Broly\Prime Moro=around Beerus' level of pure Battle Power
3. Full UI Goku\Anime Jiren\Angel Moro=Stronger than Beerus in pure BP but still in the range Beerus is comfortable to deal with using non-BattlePower methods

this fits everything the characters said

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

UI and Hakai are being treated as counterparts to one another.

Beerus(Hakai)>UI Goku=Vegeta(Hakai)>Beerus>SSBE Vegeta

Hakai allows Beerus to punch above what his conventional battle power would allow. And he stated that Hakai is the reason why there's no limit to his power. Beerus being able to kill Moro is also more likely than not due to Hakai. Moro is just a huge target in planet form and would've been erased crystal and all.

When a God of Destruction is stated to be surpassed at least in the manga's context, it seems to refer to their conventional battle power only. But their techniques are more than capable of compensating for a strength deficit.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

UI and Hakai are being treated as counterparts to one another.

Beerus(Hakai)>UI Goku=Vegeta(Hakai)>Beerus>SSBE Vegeta

Hakai allows Beerus to punch above what his conventional battle power would allow. And he stated that Hakai is the reason why there's no limit to his power. Beerus being able to kill Moro is also more likely than not due to Hakai. Moro is just a huge target in planet form and would've been erased crystal and all.

When a God of Destruction is stated to be surpassed at least in the manga's context, it seems to refer to their conventional battle power only. But their techniques are more than capable of compensating for a strength deficit.

I certainly hope that these Gods of Destruction, Beerus in particular, remain at relatively consistent and static levels in pure power level with this notion of opponents reaching/surpassing this level.

It'd be much less of a headache trying to figure Beerus into the equation if this is the case.

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t doubt that Beerus could be surpassed on conventional battle power way, but when he fights CSSB Vegeta, he commends his strength to be worth of a God of Destruction from another universe. So, there is at least one God of Destruction that can be compared to CSSB level. Not to mention several instances in which SSG is compared to Gods of Destruction.

I think the battle power difference between those gods could be much larger than we think and they more or less compensate using special techniques. From my perspective, the only god who could make Beerus struggle in battle power was Quitela, the other ones used their particular skills.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I don’t doubt that Beerus could be surpassed on conventional battle power way, but when he fights CSSB Vegeta, he commends his strength to be worth of a God of Destruction from another universe. So, there is at least one God of Destruction that can be compared to CSSB level. Not to mention several instances in which SSG is compared to Gods of Destruction.

If I'm not wrong (or if the translation is right), Beerus actually says that Vegeta could be a candidate for God of Destruction in another universe. This was probably just a parallel to Toppo, who was training to be Belmod's successor and was as strong as CSSB Goku / Vegeta

And particularly I consider SSG to be just the minimum level capable of attracting a GoD's attention (even though it's far from the true power of one), and that's why it's often referred as a form capable of fighting at the level of the Gods (as said by Arak in the exhibition tournament)

[Sikat]

There would be a more compelling case to be made for the idea that Toriyama never humored Beerus being surpassed if the element that implied that were a visual one instead, say, a line of dialogue--the thing he is credited for.

Toriyama’s original screenplay =/= the movie itself. Toei was given free reign to cut, edit, and expand on it. You yourself even showed the script supervisor (aka the person in charge of reviewing Toei’s edited script) wasn’t Toriyama. So using lines from the film and attributing them to Toriyama, or saying “he shouldn’t have allowed this”, is dumb, since he had no involvement beyond the original screenplay and designs.

That general definition does make Viz's translation of Toppo's line a perfectly acceptable one

Yup. But I’m not here to argue about translations, both are correct yet in context combat skill is the infinitely better translation and is why it’s the one Viz officially went with.

But I think you have to ignore previous dialogue across every version of Super to an almost disingenuous extent to make the argument for that always having been intended to be the case

It has definitely always been the case since chapter 1 of Dragon Ball Super.

This right here is also confirming my theory, people who are shocked at Beerus being the strongest (to the point of being unwilling to accept it) are people who try and mix continuities into one big thing. Toei has no foresight into the future, they had no involvement with Toyo/Tori’s manga, they just went ahead and did their own thing. Which often resulted in weirdness like SSG being absorbed into Goku’s base only for it to become a transformation again - like it always was in the DBS manga.

It doesn't read that way in the moment

Correct, it doesn’t, nor will it ever. People need to stop letting their imagination run wild. The only way to defeat Moro (without destroying the Earth) was by destroying his crystal, as explicitly stated by an Angel. Beerus definitely has more god techniques than just Destruction, but nothing he has would have allowed for him to defeat Moro outside of the way UI Goku (who originally failed) did.

implications about having been surpassed in strength/traditional fighting skill (which were absolutely made, by all three of Toei, Toyotaro, and Toriyama).

The discussion is about Beerus, not Belmod the retiring GoD.

there's more than enough to have made Beerus' confidence at the end of the Moro arc a headscratcher

Not really. Since the manga constantly reaffirms Beerus’s superiority all throughout.















Even prior to his statement of being able to easily defeat the guy UI Goku struggled and lost against, Beerus was just nonchalantly watching their fight and commentating with Whis.

Right now you're saying people can't factor in the anime

That should be obvious, no?

Toei has told their own story, one without any foresight as to what the future held, and concluded it early. I think it should go without saying that is completely irrelevant to the story of Dragon Ball Super currently being told, that has been on-going since 2015.

[Nevaeh]

Beerus' nonsensical scaling really got people going through movie credits

[Hugo Boss]

I don’t doubt that Beerus could be surpassed on conventional battle power way, but when he fights CSSB Vegeta, he commends his strength to be worth of a God of Destruction from another universe. So, there is at least one God of Destruction that can be compared to CSSB level. Not to mention several instances in which SSG is compared to Gods of Destruction.

If I'm not wrong (or if the translation is right), Beerus actually says that Vegeta could be a candidate for God of Destruction in another universe. This was probably just a parallel to Toppo, who was training to be Belmod's successor and was as strong as CSSB Goku / Vegeta

And particularly I consider SSG to be just the minimum level capable of attracting a GoD's attention (even though it's far from the true power of one), and that's why it's often referred as a form capable of fighting at the level of the Gods (as said by Arak in the exhibition tournament)

Probably. But my point is about why CSSB got such treatment, since it’s much stronger than SSG, which is already at the start of the latter. A candidate seems to be one who can compete to the role, maybe not quite beat everyone else, but at least compete. The scene plays out in a way that Vegeta can’t compete in Beerus’ universe, but in another universe he may have a chance.

[ankokudaishogun]

that's more about Beerus being tsundere and not wanting to praise Vegeta directly

[Thani]

Plus a "candidate" is just basically a "in training". That means Beerus is either not looking for replacements (Whis does consider both Goku and Vegeta as potential adequate replacements for Beerus, remember) or that they're not up to par with being a candidate in U7 (which doesn't fit with Whis actually considering them potential successors to Beerus).

I agree with ankokudaishogun here, it felt more like Beerus being a tsundere. He did it again when "offering" to train Vegeta. He's really just a cat.

[DBZ Macky]

What are the chances that Beerus is stronger than Goku in the same way Monaka was stronger than Goku in the Universe 6 Arc?
He could just be lying through his teeth again just to motivate Goku to get stronger or something. Beerus is known to be a liar, I don't even know why people take his word seriously.

Beerus is weaker than Broly/MUI Goku until he actually beats someone on their level on-screen, and then we can talk.
We did see him curbstomp CSSB Vegeta, it's only a matter of time he'd do the same with MUI if he really is stronger as people suggest.

Beerus' nonsensical scaling really got people going through movie credits

It's always funny to see the lengths people go through to try and make sense of Koyama's Broly and Toriyama's Beerus.

[Nevaeh]

What are the chances that Beerus is stronger than Goku in the same way Monaka was stronger than Goku in the Universe 6 Arc?
He could just be lying through his teeth again just to motivate Goku to get stronger or something. Beerus is known to be a liar, I don't even know why people take his word seriously.

Beerus is weaker than Broly/MUI Goku until he actually beats someone on their level on-screen, and then we can talk.
We did see him curbstomp CSSB Vegeta, it's only a matter of time he'd do the same with MUI if he really is stronger as people suggest.

Beerus' nonsensical scaling really got people going through movie credits

It's always funny to see the lengths people go through to try and make sense of Koyama's Broly and Toriyama's Beerus.

Doubt it tbh. The implications are strong that Beerus is legit still leagues above Goku

I bet if Granolah, UI Goku and caveman Vegeta all fought Beerus at the same time, they'd get no diffed. That's how strong the wank is right now

[ZombieVito]

What are the chances that Beerus is stronger than Goku in the same way Monaka was stronger than Goku in the Universe 6 Arc?
He could just be lying through his teeth again just to motivate Goku to get stronger or something. Beerus is known to be a liar, I don't even know why people take his word seriously.

Beerus is weaker than Broly/MUI Goku until he actually beats someone on their level on-screen, and then we can talk.
We did see him curbstomp CSSB Vegeta, it's only a matter of time he'd do the same with MUI if he really is stronger as people suggest.

Beerus' nonsensical scaling really got people going through movie credits

It's always funny to see the lengths people go through to try and make sense of Koyama's Broly and Toriyama's Beerus.

Didn't Beerus beat the shit out of SSBE Vegeta that was stronger than Omen Goku from the Moro arc?

Hell, wasn't that Vegeta implied to be above Broly in the same chapter?