GodVegetto91 wrote:So Current SSJ Blue Gogeta >>>>>>>>> MUI Goku (ToP)
Current SSJ Blue Gogeta >>> MAX Broly >>>>>> Jiren/MUI Goku. Based on the spoilers.
.....Yeah but this isn't the movie thread you're supposed to put that in a spoiler tag.
But yes, I agree.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
GodVegetto91 wrote:So Current SSJ Blue Gogeta >>>>>>>>> MUI Goku (ToP)
Current SSJ Blue Gogeta >>> MAX Broly >>>>>> Jiren/MUI Goku. Based on the spoilers.
.....Yeah but this isn't the movie thread you're supposed to put that in a spoiler tag.
But yes, I agree.
Well first of all, you’re not a mod. And secondly, i’ve seen others in this thread use his name aswell and i didn’t see you attacking them for it. Thirdly, kanzenshuu won’t allow me to edit posts. So there.
If SSB Goku and Vegeta can beat SS Broly as a team, which seems to be the case in the trailer, then he's around Dyspo or Black level before he goes LSS (which strains his body enough to injure him and lose control if Kale is any indication). And if he loses to SSB Gogeta, then bar a random statement about him being the most powerful ki they've ever felt, he's weaker than both Fused Zamasu (based on the latter going rounds with the much more powerful SSB Vegetto) and whatever tiny fraction of power Jiren was exerting against SSBE Vegeta (based on Vegeta and Kaioshin saying Jiren's energy there was the highest they'd ever encountered... which now that I think about it should also put his power there above whatever Whis used to knock out Beerus those two times).
That's assuming this movie follows the anime continuity, anyway. For all we know it's another story where there are three versions. We know there's going to be a manga version, at least.
In general though, I highly doubt that Broly is going to be as strong as previous enemies simply because that would require making Goku and Vegeta surpass Beerus to beat him. The whole point of Goku dropping that line about not being able to use UI anymore seemed to be to avoid that problem. I wonder if Gogeta will even get the "he might even be stronger than Beerus!" hype that manga Vegetto got.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
GodVegetto91 wrote:So Current SSJ Blue Gogeta >>>>>>>>> MUI Goku (ToP)
Current SSJ Blue Gogeta >>> MAX Broly >>>>>> Jiren/MUI Goku. Based on the spoilers.
.....Yeah but this isn't the movie thread you're supposed to put that in a spoiler tag.
But yes, I agree.
Well first of all, you’re not a mod. And secondly, i’ve seen others in this thread use his name aswell and i didn’t see you attacking them for it. Thirdly, kanzenshuu won’t allow me to edit posts. So there.
Just saying dude, you don't have to get all defensive. But I think mentioning him should be in spoiler tags to be courteous of people trying to avoid spoilers.
Spoiler:
Super carries on much of Dragon Ball and Z's charm in ways that might not immediately be obvious, while also bringing something new to the table. I certainly can't think of any previous arcs like Goku Black, and, for all its problems, the Tournament of Power is possibly the most ambitious storytelling endeavor in series history as far as how its narrative unfolds. It's also a thrill ride, which is all I wanted and exactly what I got. Super also canonizes decades old fan theories in ways that very naturally tie into the overall fabric of Dragon Ball's world in satisfying ways. All in all, Dragon Ball, Z, and Super are all well worth experiencing.
I would hug you and kiss you if i knew you.
You stayed strong with your believe that beerus > UI goku and jiren, and in the end, it turned out true.
Apperantly broly is te first ever antagonist to ne said to be at least as strong as beerus, and the statement about goku being almost a god seems to have been for UI being behind beerus still.
Gogeta seems to be the first mortal evel to completely surpass hakaishin tier. Apperanrly he treated full power broly as bad as manga vegito did zamasu (of course it was blue gogeta)
Some speculative notes from the DBS Broly from a person who went the Japanese premier and know Japanese quite well:
- Broly's power is compared to Beerus by Vegeta
- There is some strong suggestion that Legendary Super Saiyan Broly is stronger than Beerus as it's noted by Goku that Broly in the film is the strongest person he's ever fought and even outright says Broly is stronger than Beerus.*
- Ultra Instinct, Kaioken Blue and SSJB Evoltuion make no appearance in the movie.
- SSJB Gogeta dominates LSSJ Broly in the film. **
- Gohan makes no appearance. (Just wanted to throw that out there)
- Broly fight Whis twice, and Whis just fucks around with Broly as Broly can't land a single punch on him.
* It's established in Battle Of Gods that Beerus never fought Goku at full power. So I can guarantee that Goku saying Broly is stronger than Beerus is nothing more than a tease.
** Gogeta uses SSJ before transforming into SSJB. And the fusion lasts for 30 minutes, apparently.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
So How much more power was beerus than UI goku and jiren if broly is the first ever to reach or surpass beerus in power. Antagonists have always spiked up in power every next saga. I doubt broly is just slightly stronger than jiren.
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Nothing states that Broly was the first to surpass Beerus.
Gogeta>Broly>UI Goku>Jiren>Beerus. And there are others with more power as well.
Id rather go with whats established now, rather than keep believing something that was wrong.
Matter of fact is tha broly was stated to perhaps surpass beerus. So he is the first person to ever be directly compared to beerus, and he is the strongest opponent theyve ever faced. Jiren and UI goku, for the most part, seem to be implied weaker than beerus.
Remember the statement by a writee that UI golu is ALMSOST a god while vegeta is catching up? Seems to be referencing UI goku being not stronger, but close to beerus in power.
And the statement about broly being possibly beyond hakaishin level was directed at beerus.
To me, the movie has changed my mind about UI goku and jiren being above beerus. It might change later, but not now.
You can believe that if you want, but it's wrong. Nothing establishes Beerus as even being comparable to Jiren or UI Goku. At this point people are inflating Beerus for the sake of it. There is no "moving goalpost" for Beerus' power. There never was. That's purely a fan made concept.
Theres now spoilers that apperantly state that ssj (yes just ssj) gogeta was almost even with Full power broly, and that ssb was literally overkill. Broly couldnt even touch him.
Lord Beerus wrote:Some speculative notes from the DBS Broly from a person who went the Japanese premier and know Japanese quite well:
- Broly's power is compared to Beerus by Vegeta
- There is some strong suggestion that Legendary Super Saiyan Broly is stronger than Beerus as it's noted by Goku that Broly in the film is the strongest person he's ever fought and even outright says Broly is stronger than Beerus.*
- Ultra Instinct, Kaioken Blue and SSJB Evoltuion make no appearance in the movie.
- SSJB Gogeta dominates LSSJ Broly in the film. **
- Gohan makes no appearance. (Just wanted to throw that out there)
- Broly fight Whis twice, and Whis just fucks around with Broly as Broly can't land a single punch on him.
* It's established in Battle Of Gods that Beerus never fought Goku at full power. So I can guarantee that Goku saying Broly is stronger than Beerus is nothing more than a tease.
** Gogeta uses SSJ before transforming into SSJB. And the fusion lasts for 30 minutes, apparently.
... I guess Toei and Toyotaro exaggerated how fast Vegetto fizzles out?
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
Apparently no comparisons were made with Broly and Beerus when it came to power.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Nothing states that Broly was the first to surpass Beerus.
Gogeta>Broly>UI Goku>Jiren>Beerus. And there are others with more power as well.
Id rather go with whats established now, rather than keep believing something that was wrong.
Matter of fact is tha broly was stated to perhaps surpass beerus. So he is the first person to ever be directly compared to beerus, and he is the strongest opponent theyve ever faced. Jiren and UI goku, for the most part, seem to be implied weaker than beerus.
Remember the statement by a writee that UI golu is ALMSOST a god while vegeta is catching up? Seems to be referencing UI goku being not stronger, but close to beerus in power.
And the statement about broly being possibly beyond hakaishin level was directed at beerus.
To me, the movie has changed my mind about UI goku and jiren being above beerus. It might change later, but not now.
You're assuming Toei isn't gonna change anything
Broly could very well fight Gogeta to a stalemate in the anime while at the same time be "maybe stronger than Beerus"
shadd21 wrote:Wait so Beerus > MUI and Jiren is confirmed, meanwhile Broly’s standing compared to Beerus is unknown?
Broly is the only reason beerus > UI goku and jiren is confirmed. At his peak, broly was stated to perhaps be beyond beerus, while at the same time ssb gogeta treated him as a joke.